Repeated flooding from flat above

[rainagain]

My OH's mum is disabled and stays in a council flat, the flat above her is a privately owned buy to let. Over the last five years she has had repeated problems with their plumbing leaking down into her flat, at one point her whole bathroom ceiling was replaced by the council.

In the last couple of weeks water has leaked down about four times. The landlord did eventually send a plumber after the second leak but they obviously haven't fixed the fault as she has just called and said water is coming into her cupboard where the consumer unit and electric meter are. I've spoken to the council tonight and they are sending an emergency electrician to check the electrics.

I tried to get the landlord details from the council but they couldn't find them. Given the amount of times this has happened I think it has gone from a genuine accident to simple negligence by the landlord. The council keep coming back with the line we can't do anything as the flat above is privately owned, but they seem to be quite happy to keep wasting money constantly repairing the ceiling.

I think the only way I'm going to get the landlord to do something is if I threaten their profits, as you can imagine having your home repeatedly flooded is quite stressful and my OH's mum has been in tears quite a few times over this. Does anyone know what I can hit them with? Can we send a plumber upstairs and send them the bill? Could we get a private company to do the repairs and again send them the bill? Are they breaking any laws?

TL:DR
flat repeatedly flooded by private buy to let above, landlord of this flat doesn't care, can I hurt them financially/legally to make them care

[Slagathore]

Go on the Land Registry site and pay to get the landlord's details?

Then get on to the management company/freeholder about sorting it. I don't think the council should be paying for the ceiling, I would have thought that was the responsibility of the management company to arrange through the building insurance?

It could also be that the tenants above are just being silly and flooding the bath/shower from time to time, and it's not actually the landlord being tight or negligent with maintenance/repairs?

[ellroy]

I had a place that suffered from some flooding from the apartment above and contacted the management company, could have been any of the three levels above due to where the ingress was, and they sorted it out and did indeed claim on the building insurance to pay for it.

I'd agree that this should be the first step.

[herewego]

OP have you been upstairs to talk to the tenant and find out what the problem is?

[rainagain]

I have spoken to both the current and previous tenants. I would say it's definitely nothing they are doing that is causing the leak. With regards to the management company is this the company that manage the flat on behalf of the owner?

[SteveR1979]

rainagain said:

I have spoken to both the current and previous tenants. I would say it's definitely nothing they are doing that is causing the leak. With regards to the management company is this the company that manage the flat on behalf of the owner?

The management company manage the block and the fabric of the building, assuming its lease hold.

If its free hold I don't think it applies.

The company that manage the flat on behalf of the owner is the letting agent.

[rainagain]

It's a block of council flats. All of them bar the one above my OH's mum are still owned by the council.

[herewego]

The tenant must know who either the letting agent or the landlord is.

[Du1point8]

rainagain said:

It's a block of council flats. All of them bar the one above my OH's mum are still owned by the council.

Ask for the buildings insurance off the management company and get it sorted, the same insurance company will cover the whole building so its in their best interests to get it sorted, plus then you have a guarantee on the work.

Wouldnt bother pissing around with the LL or anyone else.

[TooMany2cvs]

rainagain said:

In the last couple of weeks water has leaked down about four times. The landlord did eventually send a plumber after the second leak

Not unreasonable for the first "leak" to be assumed to be user error, especially after a good DIY look-over to see if there's an obvious cause.

rainagain said:

but they obviously haven't fixed the fault

So time to get the plumber back... Maybe there were two leaks, only one of which was apparent immediately. The first was resolved, the second wasn't. No proof of negligence yet.

rainagain said:

as she has just called and said water is coming into her cupboard where the consumer unit and electric meter are. I've spoken to the council tonight and they are sending an emergency electrician to check the electrics.

And what was the fourth time? Or is it just the three?

rainagain said:

Given the amount of times this has happened I think it has gone from a genuine accident to simple negligence by the landlord.

Mmm. Bit of a leap there.

If it is negligence, then he's liable for the costs of repairs - although that's between him and your friend's landlord, since they're paying for them.
If it isn't negligence - and, so far, you're going to have to go some to prove it - then the cost is down to your friend's landlord.
Do you even know it's the flat above's problem? They're only responsible for their internal plumbing - anything on the building side of their water and waste plumbing is the landlord - the council's - problem.

rainagain said:

Does anyone know what I can hit them with?

Assuming you mean your friend, rather than you...
Who's "them"? The owner of the flat upstairs, or your friend's landlord?

rainagain said:

Can we send a plumber upstairs and send them the bill?

No.

rainagain said:

Could we get a private company to do the repairs and again send them the bill?

No.

rainagain said:

Are they breaking any laws?

No.

Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 28th November 09:42

[rainagain]

Du1point8 said:

Ask for the buildings insurance off the management company and get it sorted, the same insurance company will cover the whole building so its in their best interests to get it sorted, plus then you have a guarantee on the work.

Wouldnt bother pissing around with the LL or anyone else.

I think from reading what has been said above this is a 'freehold'. I think the building was built in the 40/50s by the council who have looked after it directly since bar the one flat that sold under the right to buy. Just to be clear my OH's mum hasn't been out of pocket a single penny it has been the poor council tax payer footing the bill. This is what I think is the main problem the landlord won't get a proper fix and there's no reason to do so as each repair costs them nothing.


My OH's brother has asked the council to list how many times they have had to repair the flat over the last five years but they have now said he has to submit a freedom of information request to get this, which he has done. My OH's mum is on quite a cocktail of medication for her disabilities, so finds recalling this sort of stuff quite hard.

[Du1point8]

rainagain said:

Du1point8 said:

Ask for the buildings insurance off the management company and get it sorted, the same insurance company will cover the whole building so its in their best interests to get it sorted, plus then you have a guarantee on the work.

Wouldnt bother pissing around with the LL or anyone else.

I think from reading what has been said above this is a 'freehold'. I think the building was built in the 40/50s by the council who have looked after it directly since bar the one flat that sold under the right to buy. Just to be clear my OH's mum hasn't been out of pocket a single penny it has been the poor council tax payer footing the bill. This is what I think is the main problem the landlord won't get a proper fix and there's no reason to do so as each repair costs them nothing.


My OH's brother has asked the council to list how many times they have had to repair the flat over the last five years but they have now said he has to submit a freedom of information request to get this, which he has done. My OH's mum is on quite a cocktail of medication for her disabilities, so finds recalling this sort of stuff quite hard.

Even if freehold, there will be some type of buildings insurance or are you saying there is nothing in case it burns down and needs rebuilding bar the taxpayer paying for it?

[herewego]

If it was me |I would just ask the tenant who the landlord or agent is and contact them for an assurance that the source of the problem has been found and properly fixed.

[megaphone]

OP. What has the tenant of the flat above said? Can they explain the flooding? Why can't they give you the landlord details? Maybe there's no 'fault' just a tenant who doesn't care?

[JustinP1]

Did this problem start before you chose your username?

[TooMany2cvs]

rainagain said:

I think from reading what has been said above this is a 'freehold'.

The council are the freeholder for both flats - they own the block and the land.
The landlord of the flat above is the leaseholder of that flat. The council are the leaseholder of your friend's flat.
Your friend is a tenant, just the same as the person above is a tenant. The only difference is that your friend's landlord is the council.

So the council have two different hats - as leaseholder/tenant of your friend's flat, and as freeholder of the entire block.