Parking charge query advice please

Parking charge query advice please

Author
Discussion

DM79

Original Poster:

1,914 posts

156 months

Wednesday 30th November 2016
quotequote all
So my mum, uncle and mums friend went to M&S earlier, it's on St James retail park in Knaresborough. My uncle has Parkinson's and a disabled badge so they park in a disabled bay and go about their shopping. When they come out they have a lovely sticker on the windscreen demanding money. The issuing company is 'UK Parking Control LTD'.

The reason on the ticket is "Parked in a disabled persons space without clearly displaying the expiry date of the disabled persons badge" They want £60 if paid in 14 days or else £100. I think it's fking disgusting and my mum and co. are obviously all very upset.

Apart from the obvious going through their appeal process is there any better alternative? Maybe calling M&S for support?

Their picture of offending badge:


Riley Blue

20,907 posts

225 months

Wednesday 30th November 2016
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For those of us who don't know, whereabouts is the expiry date on the Blue Badge?

speedchick

5,173 posts

221 months

Wednesday 30th November 2016
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On that side of the blue badge, it is under where the clock has been placed.

ellroy

7,000 posts

224 months

Wednesday 30th November 2016
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Well technically they're correct, but it would seem somewhat harsh.

A number of posters have suggested in similar circumstances to appeal to the shop owner/manager and often these things get cancelled. Worth a try?

If they've got a receipt for goods from M&S I can't imagine anyone in that position would want potentially awful local press in the Advertiser!

Good luck.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 30th November 2016
quotequote all
Given the expiry date is covered how are the parking mob supposed to check if the permit is valid? Can't imagine anywhere wouldn't have done the same thing, fraud with stolen or copied blue badges is absolutely rife. Can't imagine it would go well for anyone who displays any sort of parking permit with the expiry date covered up.

The only beef I'd have with this is if once evidence is provided that the pass was actually valid there's then a refusal to cancel the charge, that would be out of order over a simple error.

Maybe they should get one of those holders that keeps the permit and the time dial in plastic pockets next to each other? Then they'll have no concern about it ever happening again, might help to reduce their stress over it. Got to be worth seeing what M&S say, loyal customers, spending money, simple error, yadda yadda yadda, might be easier than battling the parking company.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 30th November 2016
quotequote all
charltjr said:
Given the expiry date is covered how are the parking mob supposed to check if the permit is valid?
Indeed. Looks like very tactical positioning to deliberately cover a date that's passed.
There's a lesson to be learnt.

You can always take the badge in to the retail park's management - M&S haven't got anything to do with directly, given it's on a large retail park - and prove that it's valid, and they might instruct the parking company to cancel it. But you are bang to rights on what they've actually hit you for.

DM79

Original Poster:

1,914 posts

156 months

Wednesday 30th November 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for the replies! It's just so frustrating that in placing the badge on the dashboard they weren't careful enough to make sure they were separated properly. I'll call M&S tomorrow to see if they have any leverage.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 30th November 2016
quotequote all
DM79 said:
Thanks for the replies! It's just so frustrating that in placing the badge on the dashboard they weren't careful enough to make sure they were separated properly.
Step back a bit, be dispassionate, and think like the sort of scumbag who'd use and abuse Grandad's badge even after he's gone. A little bit of careful "accidental" positioning, and bingo. Like "accidentally" holding your finger over the expiry date on the bus pass.

DM79 said:
I'll call M&S tomorrow to see if they have any leverage.
It's a retail park. M&S don't have anything to do with the carpark management. Go up a step, to the park managers.
If there isn't an obvious site office, then ring the agents and get a name to hassle... https://completelyretail.co.uk/portfolio/Aviva/sch...

R0G

4,984 posts

154 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
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Private company not council so I would bin it and do nothing

S11Steve

6,374 posts

183 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
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Equalities Act 2010 overrules anything that UKPC put on a sign.

The Blue Badge Scheme does not apply on private land. UKPC cannot have any kind of "Blue Badge Policy" as it is the Equality Act that applies here and under that, any person with a qualifying disability is entitled to an accessible space, regardless of their having a badge or not.

Which is amazing given that UKPC claim to be disability friendly... http://www.ukparkingcontrol.com/disabled-parking.

You can challenge it at POPLA and win. Or you can roll over and throw another chip to the seagulls and encourage them to continue their shady practices.

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

236 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
S11Steve said:
The Blue Badge Scheme does not apply on private land. UKPC cannot have any kind of "Blue Badge Policy" as it is the Equality Act that applies here and under that, any person with a qualifying disability is entitled to an accessible space, regardless of their having a badge or not.
Is that right? So are you saying anybody can park in a disabled bay without any formal action being taken. That's great for those of us who want a nice wide space to protect our pride & joy from inconsiderate parkers banging their walking sticks and wheelchairs against our precious paintwork, added bonus that they're right next to the entrance. Good news...

Back in the real world, how are UKPC supposed to ensure that the limited accessible parking bays are not occupied by those who don't need the space and are just being a lazy arse?

Enforcement of accessible parking abuse to ensure that the spaces are free for those who actually need them will always be seen as being 'reasonable' so I'm not sure you're right on the interpretation of the Equalities Act here.

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
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First of all don't ignore it. Someone will tell you to do just that but it's a bad idea.

Second of all don't pay it. Immediately dispute it by whatever appeals process is printed on the 'invoice'. Approach M&S in store who could get it waived. Escalate via social media etc if necessary.

Thirdly, make sure you don't pay it.

SteveR1979

599 posts

140 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
R0G said:
Private company not council so I would bin it and do nothing
Don't take this advice.

Poster doesn't know what he is talking about

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
charltjr said:
Given the expiry date is covered how are the parking mob supposed to check if the permit is valid?
Indeed. Looks like very tactical positioning to deliberately cover a date that's passed.
There's a lesson to be learnt.
Says the man who has never made a mistake in his life. rolleyes

Do you suffer from an excess of bile? Almost every time you post to a thread you make negative and/or disparaging remarks.

charltjr had a valid point but your response was both predictable and gratuitously provocative.









S11Steve

6,374 posts

183 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
The Surveyor said:
Is that right? So are you saying anybody can park in a disabled bay without any formal action being taken. That's great for those of us who want a nice wide space to protect our pride & joy from inconsiderate parkers banging their walking sticks and wheelchairs against our precious paintwork, added bonus that they're right next to the entrance. Good news...

Back in the real world, how are UKPC supposed to ensure that the limited accessible parking bays are not occupied by those who don't need the space and are just being a lazy arse?

Enforcement of accessible parking abuse to ensure that the spaces are free for those who actually need them will always be seen as being 'reasonable' so I'm not sure you're right on the interpretation of the Equalities Act here.
The Blue Badge scheme relates to local authority regulations, and congestion charges, there is nothing that says it has to be displayed on private land, even if that is publicly accessible private land like supermarket carparks. That is where the Equalities Act 2010 comes in, and again it makes no reference to the need for displaying a blue badge.

This is typical UKPC method - shoot first, ask questions later and make it as difficult as possible for people challenge it. Many people do pay up because it's easier and less hassle, but that doesn't make it right.
UKPC signage has been ripped apart in many courts as not sufficient to form a contract.


In essence it is not much different to me writing some half-assed legalese statement here, and then demanding £100 from the next people to post, reduced to £60 if they pay within 14 days. If you don't pay, I'll get some debt collectors to send more threat-o-grams, still no response, I'll take my chance that if I issue a court claim through Moneyclaim.gov then that is highly likely to frighten most people into paying up.

I know I don't own PH, but I have a contract with my ISP who gives me access to PH, so that's good enough right? And the majority of people will not understand the nuances of the process, so if enough people pay up, it makes a nice profit for me.

I'm not a lawyer, but with around 80 POPLA wins against UKPC alone, I'm fairly confident in arguing the toss with them.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
S11Steve said:
The Surveyor said:
Enforcement of accessible parking abuse to ensure that the spaces are free for those who actually need them will always be seen as being 'reasonable' so I'm not sure you're right on the interpretation of the Equalities Act here.
The Blue Badge scheme relates to local authority regulations, and congestion charges, there is nothing that says it has to be displayed on private land, even if that is publicly accessible private land like supermarket carparks. That is where the Equalities Act 2010 comes in, and again it makes no reference to the need for displaying a blue badge.
And there is nothing in the Equality regs that states BB holders are to get things free, LA or not, many private car parks can charge BB holders if they wish, Heck many councils already do and more are looking to do so to raise revenue.

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

236 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
S11Steve said:
The Surveyor said:
Is that right? So are you saying anybody can park in a disabled bay without any formal action being taken. That's great for those of us who want a nice wide space to protect our pride & joy from inconsiderate parkers banging their walking sticks and wheelchairs against our precious paintwork, added bonus that they're right next to the entrance. Good news...

Back in the real world, how are UKPC supposed to ensure that the limited accessible parking bays are not occupied by those who don't need the space and are just being a lazy arse?

Enforcement of accessible parking abuse to ensure that the spaces are free for those who actually need them will always be seen as being 'reasonable' so I'm not sure you're right on the interpretation of the Equalities Act here.
The Blue Badge scheme relates to local authority regulations, and congestion charges, there is nothing that says it has to be displayed on private land, even if that is publicly accessible private land like supermarket carparks. That is where the Equalities Act 2010 comes in, and again it makes no reference to the need for displaying a blue badge.

This is typical UKPC method - shoot first, ask questions later and make it as difficult as possible for people challenge it. Many people do pay up because it's easier and less hassle, but that doesn't make it right.
UKPC signage has been ripped apart in many courts as not sufficient to form a contract.


In essence it is not much different to me writing some half-assed legalese statement here, and then demanding £100 from the next people to post, reduced to £60 if they pay within 14 days. If you don't pay, I'll get some debt collectors to send more threat-o-grams, still no response, I'll take my chance that if I issue a court claim through Moneyclaim.gov then that is highly likely to frighten most people into paying up.

I know I don't own PH, but I have a contract with my ISP who gives me access to PH, so that's good enough right? And the majority of people will not understand the nuances of the process, so if enough people pay up, it makes a nice profit for me.

I'm not a lawyer, but with around 80 POPLA wins against UKPC alone, I'm fairly confident in arguing the toss with them.
What, you have accrued 80 parking notices against this company alone? Genuine question, are you being deliberately provocative with these people as some form of organised opposition or just very unlucky?

With regard to the topic, I'm aware that Council managed blue-badge scheme doesn't have any authority on private car parks, but it does seam to me to be a reasonable way of ensuring that the centre management meet their obligations under the Equalities Act to provide accessible parking given that people who genuinely need these spaces would most likely have a blue-badge. I appreciate that enforcement is often heavy-handed, but there are an awful lot of people out there who don't give a stuff about the needs of the disabled and would willingly abuse an accessible space, even using fake and out-of-date badges.

So what do you think UKPC should do to prevent the abuse of the accessible spaces?

Emeye

9,773 posts

222 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
Get onto M&S and ask them to sort it for you. They do have influence over the parking companies, though some retailers may claim they don't.

Whatever you do, do not ignore it - it then turns into an even bigger pain as parking companies are now threatening to take people to court and following through on their threats - even if they win it costs them more than they make, but they hope that people bottle it before it gets to a court date - unfortunately a precedent was set a while back.

herewego

8,814 posts

212 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
speedyguy said:
S11Steve said:
The Surveyor said:
Enforcement of accessible parking abuse to ensure that the spaces are free for those who actually need them will always be seen as being 'reasonable' so I'm not sure you're right on the interpretation of the Equalities Act here.
The Blue Badge scheme relates to local authority regulations, and congestion charges, there is nothing that says it has to be displayed on private land, even if that is publicly accessible private land like supermarket carparks. That is where the Equalities Act 2010 comes in, and again it makes no reference to the need for displaying a blue badge.
And there is nothing in the Equality regs that states BB holders are to get things free, LA or not, many private car parks can charge BB holders if they wish, Heck many councils already do and more are looking to do so to raise revenue.
I think it's a free car park for 3 hours.

R0G

4,984 posts

154 months

Thursday 1st December 2016
quotequote all
SteveR1979 said:
R0G said:
Private company not council so I would bin it and do nothing
Don't take this advice.

Poster doesn't know what he is talking about
Oh yes he does from experience