Random letter claiming I owe money from 3 years ago
Discussion
We rented our house out for 5 years to what turned out to be a very financially dodgy family (ended up owing us £K's in rent but that's an aside).
When we moved back we had at least 3 or 4 debt collectors demands a week in one or another of their names. Amounts from £50 to £500+ but well over £10K in all. I duly called them for the first couple of months and then just kept binning them. 3 years on we don't get anything anymore and that was the end of it.
I doubt they traced them as the disappeared to Spain. I guess anything under a few hundred isn't worth the time and hassle.
When we moved back we had at least 3 or 4 debt collectors demands a week in one or another of their names. Amounts from £50 to £500+ but well over £10K in all. I duly called them for the first couple of months and then just kept binning them. 3 years on we don't get anything anymore and that was the end of it.
I doubt they traced them as the disappeared to Spain. I guess anything under a few hundred isn't worth the time and hassle.
Rubin215 said:
We had a similar issue over a car that Mrs 215 had insured through a well know company who fit things Kwik.
She had sold the car and informed them of this during the last month of the policy, cancelling the direct debit online at the same time; no refund due, no cancellation charge because it was so late in the policy.
They chose to automatically renew it, even though they had been informed she no longer owned it!
Three months later, she started getting letters about unpaid premiums, policy cancellations etc.
Despite best attempts, they refused to end the saga without being paid for the three months they had supposedly had the car on cover!
We, obviously, refused to pay.
Things dragged on for almost a year with letters and phonecalls backwards and forwards between the Kwik people, DVLA, debt collecters etc, with each letter and phonecall becoming more and more threatening and the sum due becoming more and more extortionate.
Eventually, after some advice, we stopped playing the game and just ignored everything they sent and hung up on every phonecall.
Within six months, a different debt collection company started writing and were also ignored.
A year later, someone else had bought the debt and tried a couple of speculative letters too; they were also ignored.
We've heard nothing for over two years now.
Small debts like this are, apparently, sold by the original company to a collection agency for a percentage of what they are actually owed; the original company get some of their money back without too much effort.
The agency want their money back, but will only spend so much time and effort chasing it before it becomes pointless and they sell it on to another agency for as high a percentage as they can get.
And repeat and repeat and repeat.
This was (supposedly) one of the main factors in the economic crash; debts being sold on with little or no chance of collection.
She had sold the car and informed them of this during the last month of the policy, cancelling the direct debit online at the same time; no refund due, no cancellation charge because it was so late in the policy.
They chose to automatically renew it, even though they had been informed she no longer owned it!
Three months later, she started getting letters about unpaid premiums, policy cancellations etc.
Despite best attempts, they refused to end the saga without being paid for the three months they had supposedly had the car on cover!
We, obviously, refused to pay.
Things dragged on for almost a year with letters and phonecalls backwards and forwards between the Kwik people, DVLA, debt collecters etc, with each letter and phonecall becoming more and more threatening and the sum due becoming more and more extortionate.
Eventually, after some advice, we stopped playing the game and just ignored everything they sent and hung up on every phonecall.
Within six months, a different debt collection company started writing and were also ignored.
A year later, someone else had bought the debt and tried a couple of speculative letters too; they were also ignored.
We've heard nothing for over two years now.
Small debts like this are, apparently, sold by the original company to a collection agency for a percentage of what they are actually owed; the original company get some of their money back without too much effort.
The agency want their money back, but will only spend so much time and effort chasing it before it becomes pointless and they sell it on to another agency for as high a percentage as they can get.
And repeat and repeat and repeat.
This was (supposedly) one of the main factors in the economic crash; debts being sold on with little or no chance of collection.
I had a similar experience with a purported energy bill that was sold on to a recovery firm. At first I made contact and disputed but it only encouraged them to threaten and demand without ever providing my evidence. Eventually I just stopped responding and began ignoring. They banged on for maybe a year then gave up.
dacouch said:
InitialDave said:
I like the bit where they wrote "Insurance Collections Bureau" instead of signing their name.
A lot of companies who write letters which may annoy people do this, it's to avoid the customer trying to decipher the signature and then insisting they will only speak to the letter writerYou have their full bank details, make a charity donation in their name
https://www.oxfam.org.uk/donate/start-a-monthly-do...
https://www.oxfam.org.uk/donate/start-a-monthly-do...
Thanks for the advice and anecdotes.
I think I know what's happened now. The debt collector's client was Nci Insurance Services. I took out a policy with them over 4 years ago but there was a problem with it. I can't remember what it was but I do remember being pretty angry about it as it was a basic lapse on their part. So I cancelled the policy IIRC about 2 days into the cover period.
I seems that Nci have changed their collection company to this Insurance Collections Bureau Ltd shower who've gone back through all of the accounts and if they've not found a cancelation fee on record, determined it was still owed.
I didn't pay one as it was cancelled (IIRC) during the 14 day cooling off period.
Given that it took 25min to get through to Nci I think this may not be an isolated incident. That was certainly the impression I got when I was on the phone, but even so, I had to push the operator hard to get her to investigate it.
So I've fired off a stroppy email and cc'd the financial ombudsman in on it.
I think I know what's happened now. The debt collector's client was Nci Insurance Services. I took out a policy with them over 4 years ago but there was a problem with it. I can't remember what it was but I do remember being pretty angry about it as it was a basic lapse on their part. So I cancelled the policy IIRC about 2 days into the cover period.
I seems that Nci have changed their collection company to this Insurance Collections Bureau Ltd shower who've gone back through all of the accounts and if they've not found a cancelation fee on record, determined it was still owed.
I didn't pay one as it was cancelled (IIRC) during the 14 day cooling off period.
Given that it took 25min to get through to Nci I think this may not be an isolated incident. That was certainly the impression I got when I was on the phone, but even so, I had to push the operator hard to get her to investigate it.
So I've fired off a stroppy email and cc'd the financial ombudsman in on it.
Edited by Zombie on Monday 5th December 14:54
Foliage said:
You have their full bank details, make a charity donation in their name
https://www.oxfam.org.uk/donate/start-a-monthly-do...
Tempting....https://www.oxfam.org.uk/donate/start-a-monthly-do...
The tactics they employ include;
"We may need to visit your premises to explain the situation" = "we know where you live"
"We will take you to Court and you will lose, so you will have to pay all Court costs plus our legal costs" = pay £36 or maybe a grand or so.
I went through it for a while over some totally unfair charges Mercedes made to my account. I paid in the end as the hassle was getting too much.
"We may need to visit your premises to explain the situation" = "we know where you live"
"We will take you to Court and you will lose, so you will have to pay all Court costs plus our legal costs" = pay £36 or maybe a grand or so.
I went through it for a while over some totally unfair charges Mercedes made to my account. I paid in the end as the hassle was getting too much.
Zombie said:
I think I know what's happened now. The debt collector's client was Nci Insurance Services. I took out a policy with them over 4 years ago but there was a problem with it. I can't remember what it was but I do remember being pretty angry about it as it was a basic lapse on their part. So I cancelled the policy IIRC about 2 days into the cover period.
I seems that Nci have changed their collection company to this Insurance Collections Bureau Ltd shower who've gone back through all of the accounts and if they've not found a cancelation fee on record, determined it was still owed.
I didn't pay one as it was cancelled (IIRC) during the 14 day cooling off period.
Given that it took 25min to get through to Nci I think this may not be an isolated incident. That was certainly the impression I got when I was on the phone, but even so, I had to push the operator hard to get her to investigate it.
So I've fired off a stroppy email and cc'd the financial ombudsman in on it.
You'll need more than a couple of IIRCs if push comes to shove. Many people just phone up to cancel and never follow up by letter/e-mail. Do you have any written record on file from 4 years ago?I seems that Nci have changed their collection company to this Insurance Collections Bureau Ltd shower who've gone back through all of the accounts and if they've not found a cancelation fee on record, determined it was still owed.
I didn't pay one as it was cancelled (IIRC) during the 14 day cooling off period.
Given that it took 25min to get through to Nci I think this may not be an isolated incident. That was certainly the impression I got when I was on the phone, but even so, I had to push the operator hard to get her to investigate it.
So I've fired off a stroppy email and cc'd the financial ombudsman in on it.
The 14 day cool-off period entitles you to cancel but that doesn't mean that you are automatically entitled to a 100% refund. Like any business contract it is governed by the T&Cs which you accept at inception. I suspect that the amount being demanded is a pro rata charge for days on cover plus an admin fee.
Nci are an intermediary/broker not an insurer. A little research suggests they have a lot in common with a certain 'cheap as chips' Ireland based airline. Bargain basement quotes plus charging hefty extra fees for every possible scenario. 25 minutes wait to get through is nothing exceptional either: indeed it may be on the fast side of the equation.
The ICB letter says that it has been 'appointed' which suggests it has not purchased the alleged debt. On the client side it is a 'no win no fee' DCA. I trust you have written a cease and desist letter as you are in dispute with Nci.
I wish you luck in getting this dropped but don't bank on it. The FOS won't be interested in your cc btw: you're nowhere near Nci's final response stage yet.
10 years ago I had a contract with Sky. They broke several terms and conditions so I cancelled and posted a letter to both their customer services and accounts teams explaining why I had cancelled. Recorded delivery on both, and kept copies of both.
They demanded £47 for the last month, I told them to respond to my letters, they didn't.
A year later the first debt collection agency contacted me. I said I was in dispute with SKY over the figure and was waiting for them to respond to my recorded delivered letters. They said they would go back to Sky.
Another year later, another debt collection agency tried their best, same response and outcome.
Another year later, another debt collection agency tried their best, same response and outcome. Although they did ask whether I still had copies of the letters and proof of recorded delivery, which I did, and still have! LOL
After three years they obviously decided there was no more mileage in the the debt as I've heard nothing since.
They demanded £47 for the last month, I told them to respond to my letters, they didn't.
A year later the first debt collection agency contacted me. I said I was in dispute with SKY over the figure and was waiting for them to respond to my recorded delivered letters. They said they would go back to Sky.
Another year later, another debt collection agency tried their best, same response and outcome.
Another year later, another debt collection agency tried their best, same response and outcome. Although they did ask whether I still had copies of the letters and proof of recorded delivery, which I did, and still have! LOL
After three years they obviously decided there was no more mileage in the the debt as I've heard nothing since.
Had a missed phone call of the debt collection co last night (where did they get my mob no from? )then a text demanding I ring them. Which I did. Still demanding payment. At which point I may have lost my temper...
So Far I've spent an hour trying to sort this out;
30 min on the phone with NCI
20 min writing an email confirming my findings to Debt Co
10 min on phone with debt co.
Am I entitled to any form of compensation?
)then a text demanding I ring them. Which I did. Still demanding payment. At which point I may have lost my temper...So Far I've spent an hour trying to sort this out;
30 min on the phone with NCI
20 min writing an email confirming my findings to Debt Co
10 min on phone with debt co.
Am I entitled to any form of compensation?
If it sounds legit and it has gone to the debt collectors, this is generally because the insurance company have asked or signed up for it to do so. From memory, once the debt collectors get their nasty little mitts on the debt, it's theirs and theirs to chase.
Depending on the initial dealings with the insurance company i'd be tempted to pay it before it spirals out of control.
Depending on the initial dealings with the insurance company i'd be tempted to pay it before it spirals out of control.
SirTK said:
The tactics they employ include;
"We may need to visit your premises to explain the situation" = "we know where you live"
"We will take you to Court and you will lose, so you will have to pay all Court costs plus our legal costs" = pay £36 or maybe a grand or so.
I went through it for a while over some totally unfair charges Mercedes made to my account. I paid in the end as the hassle was getting too much.
That is my concern, but they don't know where I live, I've moved... (Parent's address)"We may need to visit your premises to explain the situation" = "we know where you live"
"We will take you to Court and you will lose, so you will have to pay all Court costs plus our legal costs" = pay £36 or maybe a grand or so.
I went through it for a while over some totally unfair charges Mercedes made to my account. I paid in the end as the hassle was getting too much.
Zombie said:
Had a missed phone call of the debt collection co last night (where did they get my mob no from? )then a text demanding I ring them. Which I did. Still demanding payment. At which point I may have lost my temper...
So Far I've spent an hour trying to sort this out;
30 min on the phone with NCI
20 min writing an email confirming my findings to Debt Co
10 min on phone with debt co.
Sorry, but you're doing this all wrong. )then a text demanding I ring them. Which I did. Still demanding payment. At which point I may have lost my temper...So Far I've spent an hour trying to sort this out;
30 min on the phone with NCI
20 min writing an email confirming my findings to Debt Co
10 min on phone with debt co.
Rule 1. NEVER engage with a DCA on the phone. It's TOTAL waste of your time.
Rule 2. NEVER forget Rule 1.
Write a cease and desist letter to the DCA (send by recorded delivery).
In it tell them that the debt is currently in dispute, so it must be referred back to the creditor - i.e. Nci. End of discussion.
Read this in case they don't get the message - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/a...
Likewise I wouldn't waste time on phone calls with Nci either. Especially if you're making them and spending time on hold.
Inform them in writing that you will only accept future communication by that medium.
If they do call, tell them immediately that you will be recording the conversation to give them the opportunity to terminate at that point.
Remember also to remind them about your previous letter. The advantage of dealing only in writing is it gives you time to think and formulate your responses.
Phone calls don't and you might end up inadvertently undermining your case (assuming you have one: atm I think that may be in doubt).
Zombie said:
Am I entitled to any form of compensation?
Forget it. You're nowhere near the level of Ferguson v British Gas to bring a claim for compensation/damages.Focus your time and energy more productively.
Centurion07 said:
Helicopter123 said:
£36.20.
Is this worth the hassle of it?
For the cost of a takeaway, some are suggesting Court???
Life too short IMO.
Some are suggesting HE invites THEM to take him to court. Which they won't do as it's such a small amount.Is this worth the hassle of it?
For the cost of a takeaway, some are suggesting Court???
Life too short IMO.
It's people that just pay these demands without questioning them that mean companies continue to do it.
If everyone kicked off, they'd soon stop.
Are you willing to stump up the £36 for the OP since it's such a small amount? Thought not.
OP has already spent 60 minutes in the phone, with no sign of this going away.
I repeat, is this really worth the hassle over £36??
You pick your battles IMO.
Centurion07 said:
Ok.
You owe ME £36. Hand it over.
Exactly. The whirlybird man seems to be the type of person who will roll over every time they receive a demand for money whether justified or not.You owe ME £36. Hand it over.
Others may have a different mindset. As I said previously, maybe the OP is liable under the T&Cs. We simply don't know. If not, it is his prerogative to tell them politely to Foxtrot Oscar.
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