Speed Awareness Courses - Do they work?

[Pothole]

Centurion07 said:

Mill Wheel said:

...one must ask if the thousands of drivers going on speed awareness courses are actually any safer afterwards?

By definition they must be.

Three points plus a fine with no education involved versus a course where, in what seems to be most Pher's experiences including mine, the vast majority of attendees display a staggering amount of ignorance towards all aspects of driving.

The course will educate almost all attendees to some degree thus making them, theoretically, safer. Whether they utilise this new-found knowledge or not is debatable.

But theoretically, they are now technically safer.

For what it's worth, and I'm sure I've mentioned it before, I think there should be a test at the start of the course and then the same test given at the end. Below a certain mark and you get your licence revoked.

Who do you propose administers these tests and collects the money?

[singlecoil]

cmaguire said:

singlecoil said:

Are you serious? You want 'facts' to support my contention that many people speed? Or 'facts' to support my contention that they do it because they believe there's a very very good chance that they will get away with it?

I'll assume that you are not seriously suggesting that you need me to quote 'facts' to establish the above, and that you are attempting to set up a point of your own. I suggest you get on and do that and stop messing about.

How about the possibility that they 'speed' because they feel comfortable doing it as it's not dangerous and the enforcement is an entirely secondary consideration. An inconvenience of modern life if you like.
All outside of urban areas obviously.

Of course they've got a bloody reason for doing it

Everybody has a reason for everything they do. You completely miss the point. But it wouldn't matter how strong their personal reason for speeding was, if they were sure of being caught they wouldn't do it.

[Pothole]

Willy Nilly said:

When I am on my push bike...it would be great if they stopped overtaking me when I am quite clearly signally right. But there are no automatic means of stopping them doing this, so you don't care.

You're an unusual cyclist if you signal anything clearly.

[cmaguire]

BertBert said:

What has urban areas got to do with it?

If people are capable of judging the safe speed, then they are, urban or otherwise.

I think they aren't. In fact I am certain that there are enough people who cannot judge the safe speed to travel that I am very glad of speed limits.

Bert

cmaguire said:

How about the possibility that they 'speed' because they feel comfortable doing it as it's not dangerous and the enforcement is an entirely secondary consideration. An inconvenience of modern life if you like.
All outside of urban areas obviously.

You've used the term 'safe speed' conveniently.
There is no significant safety angle to stopping drivers doing 79mph on a Motorway.
I expect we can all see there is a link between 30mph urban limits and safety.

They should just admit it's a numbers game and drop the safety crap. Trouble is they'd struggle to get away with the scam if they did.

[TooMany2cvs]

Davidonly said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gavia said:

I really struggle with the obsession people have on here with these courses. They give drivers an option.

Indeed. Seems obvious to me.

If you're against SACs, and you get a tug that results in you being offered one, then reject it and go for the FPN instead. Job jobbed. You've put your money where your mouth is.

That's what I'd do take the points.... by taking the courses you feed the parasites. Fat dumb and happy - nice salaries and pensions plus a wee bit creamed off for the local authority and to buy more speed camera equipment (thus increasing the chances of a future ticket) AND for further speed limit reductions to keep the funds flowing.

Really - the bribe is working according to many posters here - which is sad (but hey - its a fabulous business model).

http://www.speed-awareness.org/

Edited by Davidonly on Wednesday 7th December 00:23

<chuckle> You ever heard the phrase "cutting your nose off to spite your face"?

[singlecoil]

TooMany2cvs said:

Davidonly said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gavia said:

I really struggle with the obsession people have on here with these courses. They give drivers an option.

Indeed. Seems obvious to me.

If you're against SACs, and you get a tug that results in you being offered one, then reject it and go for the FPN instead. Job jobbed. You've put your money where your mouth is.

That's what I'd do take the points.... by taking the courses you feed the parasites. Fat dumb and happy - nice salaries and pensions plus a wee bit creamed off for the local authority and to buy more speed camera equipment (thus increasing the chances of a future ticket) AND for further speed limit reductions to keep the funds flowing.

Really - the bribe is working according to many posters here - which is sad (but hey - its a fabulous business model).

http://www.speed-awareness.org/

Edited by Davidonly on Wednesday 7th December 00:23

<chuckle> You ever heard the phrase "cutting your nose off to spite your face"?

'Fabulous business model'

Good business models are ones where the customers come back for more.

[768]

singlecoil said:

'Fabulous business model'

Good business models are ones where the customers come back for more.

Indeed. Like the repeat visitors to speed awareness courses.

[wiggy001]

singlecoil said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Davidonly said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gavia said:

I really struggle with the obsession people have on here with these courses. They give drivers an option.

Indeed. Seems obvious to me.

If you're against SACs, and you get a tug that results in you being offered one, then reject it and go for the FPN instead. Job jobbed. You've put your money where your mouth is.

That's what I'd do take the points.... by taking the courses you feed the parasites. Fat dumb and happy - nice salaries and pensions plus a wee bit creamed off for the local authority and to buy more speed camera equipment (thus increasing the chances of a future ticket) AND for further speed limit reductions to keep the funds flowing.

Really - the bribe is working according to many posters here - which is sad (but hey - its a fabulous business model).

http://www.speed-awareness.org/

Edited by Davidonly on Wednesday 7th December 00:23

<chuckle> You ever heard the phrase "cutting your nose off to spite your face"?

'Fabulous business model'

Good business models are ones where the customers come back for more.

Year on year "customer" increases of up to 27%... I'd call that a fabulous business model personally.

[Red Devil]

actual limit

spookly said:

I fundamentally disagree that concentrating on speed is the right way to deal with the problem of deaths on our roads, I also disagree that there actually is a problem. Of course, it will affect some people, but if we are going to drive we will have incidents. This is the same for public transport too, planes can crash and trains can crash... seemingly trams too.

A pity you decided to include that last bit because it totally negates your point about speed.

RAIB Interim Report paragraph 31 said:

Initial analysis of the tram’s OTDR indicates that some braking was applied in the 180 metres before the 20 km/h (12.5 mph) speed restriction board, but this was only sufficient to reduce the tram’s speed from 80 km/h (50 mph) to approximately 70 km/h (43.5 mph) by the time the tram passed the board and entered the curve on which the accident occurred.

.
http://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/IR012016_1...

The Sandilands curve is the rail equivalent of a very sharp 90 degree corner on a road. See this aerial view - https://goo.gl/maps/jFKCUuVLotE2
I doubt any motorist would be able to avoid a crash on a if he/she tried to go round a 90 degree corner at between three and four times the minimum posted limit applicable in the UK.

What we won't know until the final report is the RAIB's conclusions as to what caused it. There has been speculation in the media that the driver may have nodded off or blacked out. It is not the first time that speed has been an issue at that location. On 31st October (9 days before the crash) a passenger e-mailed the operator about a tram taking that curve too fast. She got a reply 2 days later to reassure her that it would be looking into the matter. One week later it all went horribly wrong.

Back O/T: the real issue is not enforcement but the selection of the limit itself. When the government got all touchy-feely about localism the rot really started to take hold. The DfT devolved far too much power to local authorities. The ability of single interest lobby groups to influence politicians at that level shouldn't be underestimated. Add in an unhealthy spoonful of dogma and the dumbing down process has become a way of life.

[singlecoil]

wiggy001 said:

Year on year "customer" increases of up to 27%... I'd call that a fabulous business model personally.

Only if it's profitable. If you knew how much it costs to run a business you wouldn't need to be told that.

[Centurion07]

Pothole said:

Who do you propose administers these tests and collects the money?

What's to administer?

You get handed a question sheet at the start, it gets marked. You get the same one at the end, you pass or fail. Minimal admin needed.

[robinessex]

The late LJK Setright once said the only 'crime' a motorist should/could be charged with is dangerous driving.

[vonhosen]

robinessex said:

The late LJK Setright once said the only 'crime' a motorist should/could be charged with is dangerous driving.

And that was nuts.

[robinessex]

vonhosen said:

robinessex said:

The late LJK Setright once said the only 'crime' a motorist should/could be charged with is dangerous driving.

And that was nuts.

Think about it.

[TooMany2cvs]

robinessex said:

vonhosen said:

robinessex said:

The late LJK Setright once said the only 'crime' a motorist should/could be charged with is dangerous driving.

And that was nuts.

Think about it.

While it may make sense viewed as some abstract concept, it's certainly stark staring nuts in any real-world terms - absolutely, completely and utterly impractical to enforce.

[pim]

I went on the course and you learn always something.Observation the things you miss whilst driving is something I try to do better.

Regarding speed I still drive the same as before.I do not speed in a build up area often drive slower when school leaving time or on busy pedestrian areas'.

Hundred pound could have been better spend I suppose but you live and learn.

[768]

singlecoil said:

wiggy001 said:

Year on year "customer" increases of up to 27%... I'd call that a fabulous business model personally.

Only if it's profitable. If you knew how much it costs to run a business you wouldn't need to be told that.

Not at all. I'd be quite happy owning Amazon.

[singlecoil]

768 said:

singlecoil said:

wiggy001 said:

Year on year "customer" increases of up to 27%... I'd call that a fabulous business model personally.

Only if it's profitable. If you knew how much it costs to run a business you wouldn't need to be told that.

Not at all. I'd be quite happy owning Amazon.

But you would need to sell it in order to make owning it worthwhile, and that assumes you had bought it for less than you would sell it for.

[768]

Nah. Just load your salary up, put your wife on as a director, etc.

[singlecoil]

You would still need to be making enough profit to cover those outgoings.