Speed Awareness Courses - Do they work?
Discussion
SidJames said:
mybrainhurts said:
It's safe to say that almost every driver breaks a speed limit on a regular basis, by such a margin that he/she qualifies for a speed awareness course.
Consequently, if plod and Highways England were more efficient at catching people, the courses would be as profitable as the lottery.
excellent post. One that 2cvs might want to note.Consequently, if plod and Highways England were more efficient at catching people, the courses would be as profitable as the lottery.
I wonder how they feel about doctors and nurses?
BertBert said:
I was a bit confused about Highways England catching speeders, but do docs and nurses do it too?
Are you actually asking for an explanation of my point, or is your post more about the Highways England bit?singlecoil said:
I wonder how they feel about doctors and nurses?
Willy Nilly said:
vonhosen said:
mybrainhurts said:
Of course they work.
Just like a money tree, only better.
Fed & thriving mainly from the contributions of plums.Just like a money tree, only better.
ks again.Driving isn't an exact science, you need fuzzy logic to drive. However, the laws and more importantly now, the way they are enforced are binary.
As I have said umpteen times, driving on the road is by miles the least sensitive to forward speed of all of the driving I do. But woe betide me if I should stray above the speed limit, because no matter the conditions, it's prosecution time for you sunny boy.
We only have to look at how people have been treated in box junctions that are enforced by camera. There's a gap across the junction, you continue forward, someone pushes in front of you and now you're stuck in a yellow box of prosecution hell.
Street lights on a road = 30, no? There has been a plague of lowered speed limits in Essex for seemingly inexplicable reasons. So you're driving along a road in Essex with street lights on, that looks like it really should be NSL, but there are street lights and there's not much by way of repeaters, so do you slow to 30 or risk it? But lo, a repeater is hanging forth of a lamp post. He's a bit grubby and tells me it's a 40. So we're on a road that by any sensible measure should be 60, the lamps and lack of repeaters suggest so window licker thinks it should be 30, but just to add to the confusion an easily missed sign says 40. And you have the audacity to suggest people are "plums" when they get tripped up by local authorities sowing tonne bags of seeds of doubt in their minds.
There was a time when 30's, 40's and NSL's were quite obvious, but now the speed limit is 10, 20 and sometimes 30mph lower than the road was initially intended for. Then a camera gets chucked up and around here, more often than not it is positioned so it's obscured, maybe not totally, put usually at least partially by street furniture.
When I'm driving at work it's quite usual to be tweaking the speed by 0.1km/hr at a time. Some times the forward speed is part of a formula and I have to stop and do some sums to work out how fast to go. I have pages and pages of notes in my cab with these sums on. Other times, the number of the dash* is meaningless, but the forward speed is still critical. Too fast or too slow and the application rate is wrong every time. Too fast or too slow and what ever machine I am using is over or under loaded every time. I leave for home mentally frazzled, but seemingly not capable of judging the prevailing conditions on the roads, which frankly are relatively easy to judge.
- for the record, the machine has 2 speedometers, both digital that are calibrated to the wheels fitted and have a radar to give true ground speed and the machine I was on last week also has GPS guidance that has an accuracy of +- 1cm, so if that says it's going 9.4km/hr, it's doing 9.4km/hr.
2) You don't get SACs or prosecuted for small margins over the limit.
3) If signage isn't to the required legal standards you have an out.
With all that in mind if you can't avoid getting captured you aren't doing trying hard enough to avoid it.
singlecoil said:
It's actually a ridiculous post. If the authorities were more efficient at catching people then nobody would speed (because they would know they would be caught). It's the fact that there is so little enforcement that many do it. Those that get caught come here to complain that because some of the people involved get their wages because of speed enforcement that it somehow becomes invalid.
I wonder how they feel about doctors and nurses?
how old are you? Serious question that is/maybe relevant to my next response.I wonder how they feel about doctors and nurses?
SidJames said:
singlecoil said:
It's actually a ridiculous post. If the authorities were more efficient at catching people then nobody would speed (because they would know they would be caught). It's the fact that there is so little enforcement that many do it. Those that get caught come here to complain that because some of the people involved get their wages because of speed enforcement that it somehow becomes invalid.
I wonder how they feel about doctors and nurses?
how old are you? Serious question that is/maybe relevant to my next response.I wonder how they feel about doctors and nurses?
vonhosen said:
That's people who get 'caugh't exceeding the speed limit by a not insignificant amount, especially when it is widely known where the enforcement is likely to be taking place in the first place. I don't think plums is harsh at all.
Yeah, we all know where it is. Urban areas, Motorways and Dual Carriageways. And relatively little on rural 60mph NSL. I don't wish to complain about the lack of enforcement on rural 60's because at least I can mostly forget about grief and just get on with it. Although it is difficult to dispute the fact that these are probably the most dangerous roads (the urban 30's have the potential to be more dangerous but strangely enough people seem to understand this and tow the line). But repeating the fact that people know where the enforcement is and implying they are therefore daft to be caught doesn't in any way justify that enforcement if it is entirely at odds with the consequences of the 'crime'.
Devoting so much enforcement to 70 limits is cynical and a p@sstake, much like the points and fines levied for offences there relative to those in lower limits.
And your interpretation of 'significant' and mine are obviously somewhat different.
I find it hard to understand why anyone would give a damn about 79mph on a Motorway.
Surveyor's 42 in a 30. Different story altogether.
Mill Wheel said:
So how effective are courses in changing drivers behaviour? They ARE successful in swelling the coffers of councils strapped for cash - they get a portion of the course fees!
A (slightly biased) Road Safety GB survey in 2013 claimed speed-awareness courses do work. They modify longterm behaviour:http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/2629.html
Yipper said:
A (slightly biased) Road Safety GB survey in 2013 claimed speed-awareness courses do work. They modify longterm behaviour:
http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/2629.html
Is James fom the West Midlands on here? Summed it up fairly I thought.http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/2629.html
The laughable thing is that the pretense of safety is still being flogged to death, just call it speed tax & be done with it.
If the authorities were serious about reducing collisions & KSI, they would be concentrating on the far more pressing issues on the roads, such as mobile phone use, the staggering number of people who tailgate to a ridiculous distance in all weathers, at all speeds, lack of indicators & observation on the motorway, total meltdown of people actually being able to negotiate a roundabout in the correct lane....
But they all take effort & don't fill the coffers up quite so well as parking a scamera van on a motorway bridge to ping people for daring to make a bit of progress!
And yes, don't speed don't get done, blah blah, but come on, if you are going to hide a stealth tax under the illusion of road safety, at least be honest about it & say you don't give a st how many people are killed really, but the scamer vans are a great source of income...
If the authorities were serious about reducing collisions & KSI, they would be concentrating on the far more pressing issues on the roads, such as mobile phone use, the staggering number of people who tailgate to a ridiculous distance in all weathers, at all speeds, lack of indicators & observation on the motorway, total meltdown of people actually being able to negotiate a roundabout in the correct lane....
But they all take effort & don't fill the coffers up quite so well as parking a scamera van on a motorway bridge to ping people for daring to make a bit of progress!
And yes, don't speed don't get done, blah blah, but come on, if you are going to hide a stealth tax under the illusion of road safety, at least be honest about it & say you don't give a s
t how many people are killed really, but the scamer vans are a great source of income...RWD cossie wil said:
If the authorities were serious about reducing collisions & KSI, they would be concentrating on the far more pressing issues on the roads, such as mobile phone use, the staggering number of people who tailgate to a ridiculous distance in all weathers, at all speeds, lack of indicators & observation on the motorway, total meltdown of people actually being able to negotiate a roundabout in the correct lane....
I certainly agree with the priorities of the 'authorities' being wrong, particularly on motorways & faster A roads. That said, how do you catch a phone user with a camera? Or tailgating & the other issues you mention? I guess the only way is MUCH more traffic police = higher taxes. Any other ideas?Yipper said:
Mill Wheel said:
So how effective are courses in changing drivers behaviour? They ARE successful in swelling the coffers of councils strapped for cash - they get a portion of the course fees!
A (slightly biased) Road Safety GB survey in 2013 claimed speed-awareness courses do work. They modify longterm behaviour:http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/2629.html
The article said:
Researchers interviewed 1,311 motorists who had been caught speeding and opted to attend a course...
I don't even know where to begin. But that "study" doesn't show anything.vonhosen said:
1) By and large it's pretty easy to know where camera enforcement is likely to take place.
2) You don't get SACs or prosecuted for small margins over the limit.
3) If signage isn't to the required legal standards you have an out.
With all that in mind if you can't avoid getting captured you aren't doing trying hard enough to avoid it.
You're missing out "making mistakes" von. Even the best driver in the world will one day be a bit tired, or have their mind wander for a second, and just pop into illegal territory for a few moments. Even you, I'm sure. Does that make us all "plums"? 2) You don't get SACs or prosecuted for small margins over the limit.
3) If signage isn't to the required legal standards you have an out.
With all that in mind if you can't avoid getting captured you aren't doing trying hard enough to avoid it.
7db said:
Depends on the provider, like most forms of education. Speak to the "graduates" and with a good instructor you get a fabulous response of "i never knew etc etc".
Most people take no driver education post test. If this is what it takes to increase the level of driver training then I think it's a great thing.
Wish it wasn't just treated as a sausage machine by some of the providers, however.
I hate statements like this. It shows a total disregard for any form of non didactic learning, and seems to totally miss any knowledge of how to teach, yet its spoken so often on forums its almost a 'thing'.Most people take no driver education post test. If this is what it takes to increase the level of driver training then I think it's a great thing.
Wish it wasn't just treated as a sausage machine by some of the providers, however.
Please look up forms of learning and realise the type you are talking about is only one form and probably the least used in society.
If that doesn't convince you why not wonder why people who are closest to their last bit of didactic training are the ones most likely to crash.
CrutyRammers said:
vonhosen said:
1) By and large it's pretty easy to know where camera enforcement is likely to take place.
2) You don't get SACs or prosecuted for small margins over the limit.
3) If signage isn't to the required legal standards you have an out.
With all that in mind if you can't avoid getting captured you aren't doing trying hard enough to avoid it.
You're missing out "making mistakes" von. Even the best driver in the world will one day be a bit tired, or have their mind wander for a second, and just pop into illegal territory for a few moments. Even you, I'm sure. Does that make us all "plums"? 2) You don't get SACs or prosecuted for small margins over the limit.
3) If signage isn't to the required legal standards you have an out.
With all that in mind if you can't avoid getting captured you aren't doing trying hard enough to avoid it.
I didn't say I never exceeded the limit & yes I drive like a plum at times.
When I drive like a plum that's down to me, I take responsibility for it it's not somebody else's fault.
Careless driving is making mistakes that result in your driving falling below the standard expected of a careful competent driver.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 6th December 09:29
RWD cossie wil said:
The laughable thing is that the pretense of safety is still being flogged to death, just call it speed tax & be done with it.
If the authorities were serious about reducing collisions & KSI, they would be concentrating on the far more pressing issues on the roads, such as mobile phone use, the staggering number of people who tailgate to a ridiculous distance in all weathers, at all speeds, lack of indicators & observation on the motorway, total meltdown of people actually being able to negotiate a roundabout in the correct lane....
But they all take effort & don't fill the coffers up quite so well as parking a scamera van on a motorway bridge to ping people for daring to make a bit of progress!
And yes, don't speed don't get done, blah blah, but come on, if you are going to hide a stealth tax under the illusion of road safety, at least be honest about it & say you don't give a st how many people are killed really, but the scamer vans are a great source of income...
Speed limits are a safety consideration, not enforcement of them.If the authorities were serious about reducing collisions & KSI, they would be concentrating on the far more pressing issues on the roads, such as mobile phone use, the staggering number of people who tailgate to a ridiculous distance in all weathers, at all speeds, lack of indicators & observation on the motorway, total meltdown of people actually being able to negotiate a roundabout in the correct lane....
But they all take effort & don't fill the coffers up quite so well as parking a scamera van on a motorway bridge to ping people for daring to make a bit of progress!
And yes, don't speed don't get done, blah blah, but come on, if you are going to hide a stealth tax under the illusion of road safety, at least be honest about it & say you don't give a s
t how many people are killed really, but the scamer vans are a great source of income...They are written so there need be no safety consideration in order to enforce them.
Enforcement of them is based on nothing more than you exceeded the limit. You are reported on the basis of a simple breach of the limit (not because it was unsafe or not) & a zero tolerance approach is not taken to it either. You then have a graduated scale of disposal/sentencing with regard to the size of the breach.
A lot of the other things require Police officers currently to deal with them & as Police officers don't have a lot of time for traffic enforcement you aren't going to see a lot of it.
Because of that some things have been given to other agencies to do (speed, yellow lines, no right turns, parking on crossings, red lights, bus lanes, motorway patrol) so you'll see rather more of those now.
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