Issue with rental contract - Utilities
Discussion
I've been in a rented place for 10 months, and have recently had a water bill through the door. Weird as I'd been told it was included in my rent. So, I go back over my emails and sure enough see this:
"Just on another note as well the water is included in the Landlord maintenance charge, so you will not need to pay the water bills during your tenancy."
I forward the email to the agent explaining that the water is included (see attached), and for them to make arrangements for it to be paid. They have come back stating I have to pay, it's not included. Upon reviewing the contract I signed, I spot this:
3.2 To pay all charges falling due for the following services used during the Tenancy and to pay the proportion of any standing charge for those services which reflects the period of time that this Agreement was in force:
gas
water including sewerage and other environmental services
electricity
Pretty sure I know the answer to this one; but any recourse with the email?
"Just on another note as well the water is included in the Landlord maintenance charge, so you will not need to pay the water bills during your tenancy."
I forward the email to the agent explaining that the water is included (see attached), and for them to make arrangements for it to be paid. They have come back stating I have to pay, it's not included. Upon reviewing the contract I signed, I spot this:
3.2 To pay all charges falling due for the following services used during the Tenancy and to pay the proportion of any standing charge for those services which reflects the period of time that this Agreement was in force:
gas
water including sewerage and other environmental services
electricity
Pretty sure I know the answer to this one; but any recourse with the email?
PurpleMoonlight said:
Hmmmmm, interesting.
I would guess the Lease is a stock document that they use for every tenancy.
If they hold you to it, you might have a claim if misrepresentation against them though as they clearly told you that you would not be directly responsible for the water costs.
I typed a line similar to your point, then deleted it. It's a stock document. I've explicitly been told I do not have to pay. I would guess the Lease is a stock document that they use for every tenancy.
If they hold you to it, you might have a claim if misrepresentation against them though as they clearly told you that you would not be directly responsible for the water costs.
I will approach them, but wanted to be a bit more educated. I imagine a 50/50 payment might be agreed. It's only £500 for the year, but it's £500 more than I knew I had to pay.
illmonkey said:
I've been in a rented place for 10 months, and have recently had a water bill through the door. Weird as I'd been told it was included in my rent. So, I go back over my emails and sure enough see this:
"Just on another note as well the water is included in the Landlord maintenance charge, so you will not need to pay the water bills during your tenancy."
I forward the email to the agent explaining that the water is included (see attached), and for them to make arrangements for it to be paid. They have come back stating I have to pay, it's not included. Upon reviewing the contract I signed, I spot this:
3.2 To pay all charges falling due for the following services used during the Tenancy and to pay the proportion of any standing charge for those services which reflects the period of time that this Agreement was in force:
gas
water including sewerage and other environmental services
electricity
Pretty sure I know the answer to this one; but any recourse with the email?
Send a copy of your proof to the water company and advise them of the landlord's name and address (if you have an assured short hold tenancy it will be on the document)."Just on another note as well the water is included in the Landlord maintenance charge, so you will not need to pay the water bills during your tenancy."
I forward the email to the agent explaining that the water is included (see attached), and for them to make arrangements for it to be paid. They have come back stating I have to pay, it's not included. Upon reviewing the contract I signed, I spot this:
3.2 To pay all charges falling due for the following services used during the Tenancy and to pay the proportion of any standing charge for those services which reflects the period of time that this Agreement was in force:
gas
water including sewerage and other environmental services
electricity
Pretty sure I know the answer to this one; but any recourse with the email?
Water companies are quite used to landlords paying water bills, so they won't be in the least surprised.
Who is the bill addressed to? I would be asking why you are paying the landlord maintenance charge if you also need to pay the bills.
Pre-contract correspondence can be used in a misrepresentation claim, and you may be able to rescind the contract or claim for damages. Don't let it get to the point where any late payment charges get added as you will probably not be seen to have mitigated your losses.
A reply along the lines of the following could be sent:
Pre-contract correspondence can be used in a misrepresentation claim, and you may be able to rescind the contract or claim for damages. Don't let it get to the point where any late payment charges get added as you will probably not be seen to have mitigated your losses.
A reply along the lines of the following could be sent:
Re: Water Bill at Property X said:
Dear lettings monkey,
Please forgive me requiring some further clarification on this matter, but in our correspondence dated Y prior to the beginning of the tenancy, you quite clearly stated the following:
"Just on another note as well the water is included in the Landlord maintenance charge, so you will not need to pay the water bills during your tenancy."
If your position is that despite this statement, I am in fact responsible for payment of the water bills, then this statement would seem to be a misrepresentation. Given the statement was a significant factor in me deciding to enter into the tenancy, and it would appear that I may suffer a loss as a result of the misrepresentation, I will need either reimbursement of the amount due for the water bills or an equivalent reduction in the maintenance charge. If neither can be arranged I may have to engage my legal advisors, Pie & Piston LLP.
Regards
illmonkey
Please forgive me requiring some further clarification on this matter, but in our correspondence dated Y prior to the beginning of the tenancy, you quite clearly stated the following:
"Just on another note as well the water is included in the Landlord maintenance charge, so you will not need to pay the water bills during your tenancy."
If your position is that despite this statement, I am in fact responsible for payment of the water bills, then this statement would seem to be a misrepresentation. Given the statement was a significant factor in me deciding to enter into the tenancy, and it would appear that I may suffer a loss as a result of the misrepresentation, I will need either reimbursement of the amount due for the water bills or an equivalent reduction in the maintenance charge. If neither can be arranged I may have to engage my legal advisors, Pie & Piston LLP.
Regards
illmonkey
I've had this a couple of times.
The issue is that when building blocks of flats, it is necessary for the developer to install a water pumping and distribution system, because mains water pressure is unlikely to be able to reach upper floors. There is therefore a technical requirement that water must be delivered to the block in a single large pipe. However, the legal requirement is that water be individually metered for each flat. This means it is incumbent on the developer to procure and install water meters, and more importantly set up the individual water accounts for each flat with the water company.
There is considerable paperwork and admin involved with this, and utility grade water meters are very expensive (about £700 each to purchase and install when I had the same problem). The result is that developments sometimes get built where the developer has overlooked the water requirements, and just sets up a single industrial water account with bulk meter.
This tends to go unnoticed for a number of years while the flats are occupied by the original purchasers or their tenants (who are told that the water is included in the rent). Eventually, someone moves in who doesn't know this, asks for a bill from the water company, they then get a bill for £70k or something preposterous because they get the bill for the whole block. They raise a complaint, and someone at the water company works out what has happened, and fixes the problem by installing new water meters, and setting up new accounts for all the residents.
As it is normally the case that the occupier pays the water bill, water companies often trace the occupier and send the new bill to them.
When this has happened to me as a landlord, I just asked the tenant to forward the bill to me, and I paid it and arranged to transfer to account to my name, as the tenancy agreement was that the water was included in the rent.
The issue is that when building blocks of flats, it is necessary for the developer to install a water pumping and distribution system, because mains water pressure is unlikely to be able to reach upper floors. There is therefore a technical requirement that water must be delivered to the block in a single large pipe. However, the legal requirement is that water be individually metered for each flat. This means it is incumbent on the developer to procure and install water meters, and more importantly set up the individual water accounts for each flat with the water company.
There is considerable paperwork and admin involved with this, and utility grade water meters are very expensive (about £700 each to purchase and install when I had the same problem). The result is that developments sometimes get built where the developer has overlooked the water requirements, and just sets up a single industrial water account with bulk meter.
This tends to go unnoticed for a number of years while the flats are occupied by the original purchasers or their tenants (who are told that the water is included in the rent). Eventually, someone moves in who doesn't know this, asks for a bill from the water company, they then get a bill for £70k or something preposterous because they get the bill for the whole block. They raise a complaint, and someone at the water company works out what has happened, and fixes the problem by installing new water meters, and setting up new accounts for all the residents.
As it is normally the case that the occupier pays the water bill, water companies often trace the occupier and send the new bill to them.
When this has happened to me as a landlord, I just asked the tenant to forward the bill to me, and I paid it and arranged to transfer to account to my name, as the tenancy agreement was that the water was included in the rent.
WatchfulEye said:
I've had this a couple of times.
When this has happened to me as a landlord, I just asked the tenant to forward the bill to me, and I paid it and arranged to transfer to account to my name, as the tenancy agreement was that the water was included in the rent.
This is exactly what your landlord needs to do, you must inform them of this, don't let them stick the bill to you.When this has happened to me as a landlord, I just asked the tenant to forward the bill to me, and I paid it and arranged to transfer to account to my name, as the tenancy agreement was that the water was included in the rent.
Thanks for the advice so far.
The agent has checked with the landlord and he is confirming I am to pay the bill. So the mess up here is the agent saying the wrong thing. Still, that is their fault and not mine. So I suppose it's for them to foot the bill...
Also, to clarify, I pay a fixed monthly rent, I do not also pay a 'charge' for bills etc.
Is there anything specific I should be saying, that might make them wake up and take responsibility?
The agent has checked with the landlord and he is confirming I am to pay the bill. So the mess up here is the agent saying the wrong thing. Still, that is their fault and not mine. So I suppose it's for them to foot the bill...
Also, to clarify, I pay a fixed monthly rent, I do not also pay a 'charge' for bills etc.
Is there anything specific I should be saying, that might make them wake up and take responsibility?
illmonkey said:
Is there anything specific I should be saying, that might make them wake up and take responsibility?
What lostmotel has kindly written for you. I read the OP and came to the same conclusion but he beat me to it.I'd give them the option in light of reminding them what they said that to treat the contract as water is not included, so, that the landlord pays it, or put to them that when water bills come in they reimburse you when you pay them.
The agent won't like it, but to keep the peace with the landlord they might end up picking up the bill.
Personally, I would stand my ground though.
Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 9th December 10:23
on me!WatchfulEye said:
I've had this a couple of times.
The issue is that when building blocks of flats, it is necessary for the developer to install a water pumping and distribution system, because mains water pressure is unlikely to be able to reach upper floors. There is therefore a technical requirement that water must be delivered to the block in a single large pipe. However, the legal requirement is that water be individually metered for each flat. This means it is incumbent on the developer to procure and install water meters, and more importantly set up the individual water accounts for each flat with the water company.
There is considerable paperwork and admin involved with this, and utility grade water meters are very expensive (about £700 each to purchase and install when I had the same problem). The result is that developments sometimes get built where the developer has overlooked the water requirements, and just sets up a single industrial water account with bulk meter.
This tends to go unnoticed for a number of years while the flats are occupied by the original purchasers or their tenants (who are told that the water is included in the rent). Eventually, someone moves in who doesn't know this, asks for a bill from the water company, they then get a bill for £70k or something preposterous because they get the bill for the whole block. They raise a complaint, and someone at the water company works out what has happened, and fixes the problem by installing new water meters, and setting up new accounts for all the residents.
As it is normally the case that the occupier pays the water bill, water companies often trace the occupier and send the new bill to them.
When this has happened to me as a landlord, I just asked the tenant to forward the bill to me, and I paid it and arranged to transfer to account to my name, as the tenancy agreement was that the water was included in the rent.
Good fair result OP.The issue is that when building blocks of flats, it is necessary for the developer to install a water pumping and distribution system, because mains water pressure is unlikely to be able to reach upper floors. There is therefore a technical requirement that water must be delivered to the block in a single large pipe. However, the legal requirement is that water be individually metered for each flat. This means it is incumbent on the developer to procure and install water meters, and more importantly set up the individual water accounts for each flat with the water company.
There is considerable paperwork and admin involved with this, and utility grade water meters are very expensive (about £700 each to purchase and install when I had the same problem). The result is that developments sometimes get built where the developer has overlooked the water requirements, and just sets up a single industrial water account with bulk meter.
This tends to go unnoticed for a number of years while the flats are occupied by the original purchasers or their tenants (who are told that the water is included in the rent). Eventually, someone moves in who doesn't know this, asks for a bill from the water company, they then get a bill for £70k or something preposterous because they get the bill for the whole block. They raise a complaint, and someone at the water company works out what has happened, and fixes the problem by installing new water meters, and setting up new accounts for all the residents.
As it is normally the case that the occupier pays the water bill, water companies often trace the occupier and send the new bill to them.
When this has happened to me as a landlord, I just asked the tenant to forward the bill to me, and I paid it and arranged to transfer to account to my name, as the tenancy agreement was that the water was included in the rent.
I'm here, except I didn't develop the block (20 yrs ago...). They are trying to stick the job lot water bill on the ground floor shop tenant as there is only one meter and he's alerted them to it. I could take on the water bill and add an uplift to tenancy agreements for all but I'm reticent to do that as its metered and so a variable unknown cost. I had to write a complaint to the water board on behalf of tenant as they told me it was utterly unfair to bill him but were going to do so anyway. Consumer Water Council now involved... Fuming for him.
Water board wont install a sub meter ('we dont do that now') and just want to dig a major road up when its one land reg building that already has water. Difficult people - regret helping them at all. But key question is how does a landlord manage variable water bills on fixed rent uplifts fairly?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff