Friday 9th December 2016

Shed(s) of the Week: Alfa GTV and Fiat Coupe

Two sides of the same coin; Shed's struggling to call it between heads or tails

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Sometimes you simply can't ignore fate. This week not one but two desirable Latin coupes have sauntered louchely (is that even a word?) into the sub-£1,000 section of the PH Classifieds.

The non-fighty Fiat option...

Picking a winner between these two was just impossible, so we're offering both. Both are 1998 examples of the four-seater Italian neck-bender school of thought. The spec sheets are near identical. 2.0-litre fours, naturally aspirated, driving the front wheels through five-speed 'boxes. 153hp in the Alfa with a 0-60 in the eight-second bracket. 154hp in the Fiat, 0-60 also in the eights. The same 134mph top whack for both. Mileages are within 10k of each other.

How do you split them?

The Alfa's credits read like something from the Oscars. Pininfarina on the outside, Walter de Silva on the inside. Autocar made it their Car of the Year. The chap partly responsible for designing it, Bruno Cena, was dubbed Engineer of the Year. And the big warranty companies crowned it The Car We Wish Had Never Been Built. Well, they would have if there had been a category for that. Alfas of this period had a well-deserved reputation for shocking reliability.

Some switchgear may be 'decorative'...

Although many would, in an ideal world, prefer to see a big V6 under that heavenly bonnet, the Shedman looking for something vaguely affordable to run would be perfectly happy to see the 2.0-litre TwinSpark four under there instead. It's a whizzy thing and is lighter than the six, which in the opinion of many means it delivers more balanced handling. Plus it puts less stress on the front suspension components, which are famously made of reconstituted Aero bars.

The cambelt needs changing every 72,000 miles, but this one was done last year - good. Mind the oil pump though, it's been known to fail, causing catastrophic oil starvation. And of course anything electrical might not be, depending on how it's feeling on any given day.

The Fiat has pretty decent parenthood too, designed as it was by Pininfarina and the bearded Yankee wunderkind Chris Bangle. The last Coupe we featured here had been caught up in a fight (really!) but this one looks to have escaped being used as an impromptu boxing ring. Not what you'd call pristine, but nicely used. Like the Alfa, it's had a decent dollop of TLC in its recent past.

Again, the non-flash motor under the Fiat's uniquely-shaped lid is the sensible option, being less prone to twang its own cambelt off into space than the Turbo model is/was.

Both these cars are getting rare now and we would venture to suggest that at least one of them is bound for classic appreciation. What's your favourite? Have a fight with yourself until you see the light.

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Here's the Alfa ad

I have had this GTV for almost 2 years. I spent a long time looking for a tidy example that had been looked after, and had, had all the necessary cambelt changes and meticulously well kept. It has an MOT until March 2017, has covered a mere 125,000 miles, had a cambelt change last year, I'm the 3rd owner, comes with the brown key and a fresh set of front tyres.

The GTV was one of the best handling cars when it was released back in 1995, and still is now.

History summary
Since my ownership, the radiator has recently been replaced, along with the Airflow sensor, a full service at 109K, waxoyled, and the cambelt changed along with the water pump and variator at 98K. The owner before myself had it for 10 years, and there is stamps and invoices to back this up.

Interior
This example comes with the original cloth seats, that are in good condition, which are a lot more comfortable than the leather seats that were available when new. Further to this, it's fitted with the original Clarion CD head and Multi-changer.

Exterior
The bodywork is original, and in very good condition given its age. There are a few touch ups in places and scratches but generally sound. Furthermore, the alloys are overall aren't perfect but still in an acceptable condition.

This car has been all over the country with me, and I'll be sad to see it go. As an enthusiast, I've really enjoyed using this coupe as daily, and would like it to go a good home.

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Here's the Fiat ad

Fiat Coupe 20 Valve VIS version ( 154 BHP) Registered August 1998 in good condition. MOT to September 2017. Stamped service history up to 64k miles and receipts thereafter. Mileage now is 116k
Bodywork in good condition , no rust. Clean condition inside.Cambelt done at 63,588 miles.

Regular service by myself or SoloItalia Fiat specialists. Recent work includes rear brake balancer,brake pipes replaced, discs and pads all round. New radiator, thermostat. Clutch slave cylinder. Front suspension. Newish tyres on front.
New Battery. Oil & filter change. Air filter. Radio/CD player.
Drives very well, great roadholding, terrific, fun, becoming rare , Italian sports car.
I've owned the car for just over 3 years.

Can be viewed most times RG7 4JU - 9 miles West of Reading, Berkshire.( Not Oxon)

[T16OLE]

Only for the brave.

I had a few good 156's that gave me false hope. My wallet was well and truly relived of its contents during my short and expensive GTV owenership.

Pretty though

[J4CKO]

T16OLE said:

Only for the brave.

I had a few good 156's that gave me false hope. My wallet was well and truly relived of its contents during my short and expensive GTV owenership.

Pretty though

It's a £1000 car, a front wheel drive hatch based one, if you can wield a spanner, how bad can it be ? looks like work already done like the cam belt, ok it's not a Micra but not all that scary.

[Vitorio]

J4CKO said:

It's a £1000 car, a front wheel drive hatch based one, if you can wield a spanner, how bad can it be ? looks like work already done like the cam belt, ok it's not a Micra but not all that scary.

Rust is a potential issue, and while its "just" a FWD coupe, the suspension on these things isnt exactly super simple, but does require regular spannering. The TS engine needs to be kept well supplied with oil (as in, going below the low mark can quickly cause catastrophic engine failure, and they tend to use some oil at this age).

Id have one in a heartbeat though, the GTV is "the one that got away" from me ten years back, if i had the money for it, i'd have one as a second car right now.

[Carfield]

Why is the Fiat's owner so keen to clarify that he's not in Oxfordshire?

[only1ian]

That's a Turismo spec GTV a rare beast indeed! Having owned 3 gtv's and considered the fiat. I'm Alfa biased! It's definately 36000miles for the TS cambelt not 72000 as suggested in the article. An Alfa service update lowered it after multiple failures. I found good oil was essential for a happy engine too. Lots of original parts issues but most realisability concerns have easy and well proven fixes these days!

[robemcdonald]

GTV for me. Only don't leave the cambelts 72000 miles though, I believe Alfa revised it to 36000 miles due to the tensioner being made of chocolate. Also make sure it comes with the red key.

[spreadsheet monkey]

Prefer the looks of the GTV.

The featured car looks nice for a grand. Colour is very 1990s!

[ij]

Just taken my boy to school in a recent 2003 GTV TS purchase. Silver over black leather, steel exhaust and remapped to 170 it's a flyer, and all for £700.

[STiG911]

That Alfa's a nice little thing and does appear to have been well looked after, however...

People should run away from the Fiat. Not walk, run. It's MOT History has more holes than the average British road; for example: One of three reasons listed for failure in Sept 2015 notes excessive corrosion on the nearside vehicle structure with 30cm of the body mountings, but then a pass is registered on THE SAME DAY with no increase in mileage ?! The rest is even worse than that. Very Suspish.
Run, Run now.

[GM182]

Have had both. Alfa in V6 form and Fiat in 20VT form.

The Fiat is much more spacious inside and in my case a fair bit more reliable too. Always struggled to see the point of the smaller engines when the top engines in both models were so good.

These days I think the Fiat just looks a bit weird rather than avant-garde as it did in its day.

Always heard good things about the Alfa twin spark so, despite being more cramped and potentially flaky, that would be my choice of these two.

[Oddball RS]

The Fiat in 1998 20V format is a five pot not a four and was rated at 170Bhp not 154, not the most accurate of articles.

[marshall100]

Top shedding there, I'd have either and I'm handy with the spanners, but alas less forthcoming with the required bag of sand.

[Vee12V]

Love the color on the GTV. Still such an evocative design. Talk about a bargain.

[BFleming]

I remember going car shopping back in early 1998, and going to look at a GTV in the local main dealer in Essen, Germany. Great looking car, but there was a few inches of water in the drivers side footwell - so it was one of those 'walk away before having to engage with a salesman' moments. We then went to the Fiat garage, where they had a Coupe with the 1.8 16v engine. Brand new for DM30,000 (about £12k at the time from memory). But for that money, and with that engine, it was a very basic spec, so we ended up with a 12 month old BMW 316i Compact - loved that car!
My best mate bought a 1996 GTV in about 2000, and it rated as the worst car he ever owned; it was replaced by a 147 back in 2002, which he still has!
I would buy a Fiat Coupe at the moment, they're so cheap, and there's plenty of good ones out there. 944 to shift before that happens though.

[Atmospheric]

Question for anyone who might know.

How much weight can be lost from the GTV.?
I like the sound of a twin spark breathing properly and -100kg or so.

Any experiences?

[robsco]

GTV for me. I've had two, one of which I still own, a 3.0 V6 in the same colour as the car posted here (Sargassi Green). Unfortunately it gets very little use so I'm considering selling, although no doubt I'll end up buying another one in the future.

[wal 45]

Great sheds, had/got both.

The Fiat Coupe in the ad isn't a VIS as stated but a standard NA 147 BHP car, quite a bit different to drive (and own). I had my VIS over 8 years and loved every minute of it, genuinely my favourite car I've owned and only sold as I wanted to restore an Alfa Spider.

Parts that aren't shared with the 20V Turbo are getting very very hard to source, towards the end of my ownership this was the biggest worry. There is a guy who is doing his best to get parts remade (FCSS) but it was certainly a pain, won't get any better as only a couple of hundred left I think.

The engine note is fantastic, and they remain a practical and good fun car. Personally I always preferred driving a non turbo Fiat Coupe to the Turbo, really great underrated cars.

Although I haven't got a GTV I've got a (well one and half) mechanically identical twin spark 1996 Spider. Good to see the rust clichés being rolled out but being honest I've found very little on it (and the Coupe before it), they really don't rot out badly.

The thing that is painful financially on the Spider/GTV is rear suspension if neglected, even doing it yourself isn't cheap. Worth a look on Alfa Owner forum for full details. Cam belts are 36K/3 years changes, not done mine yet but once you've got the tools doesn't look difficult.

Annoyingly the GTV/Spider spares situation seems to be going the way of the Coupe, still waiting on a couple of parts to get my rear suspension back together. I've also found that buying a Phase 1 probably wasn't the wisest choice as it has some unobtainable parts vs the later cars, hence the reason I jumped at going half shares on a spare car.

Mine is at least a year off being back on the road (and a fair few £K) but looking forward to it. Both good sheds though, can't beat a cheap Italian but be warned your spanners won't get rusty!!

[kambites]

It'd have to be the Fiat for me, from what I remember they're pretty much equally good to drive but the Fiat can actually carry four people and has a decent sized boot. I prefer the five-pot engine in the Fiat to the four-pot in the Alfa, too.

[Shakermaker]

I like how the seller had to specify "Not Oxon." in the advert.

[PoopahScoopah]

I'd struggle to choose between them but think I'd go with the Fiat as being slightly more practical (more rear leg room and some actual useable boot space for more than a packet of fags) and I always liked them in Scotts Green.

Either way though, I'd always be wishing I was in the V6/20VT version of either.