DVLA has banned me from driving for 4 years..and it wasnt me

[superlightr]

TooMany2cvs said:

CAPP0 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gotta be a cockup by the paper, surely? Minimum ban for a first offence drink-drive is 1yr. Mind you, he wasn't very far over the limit - and would have been legal anywhere else in the UK. 33ug/100ml, versus a limit of 22 in Scotland and 35 elsewhere.

May have already been asked - but what if an English driver gets convicted at, say, 30ug in Scotland; do they lose their licence to drive in the UK, or only in Scotland?

Yes. The limit applies locally, the ban applies nationally.

that's a bit strange is it not?


Legal in the England but illegal in Scotland - sure a ban in Scotland but Shirley unfair for a ban in England to apply? The same limits should apply nationwide if it were to be a nationwide driving ban.

Just trying to think of other comparisons where the bar changes for the offence in the UK when stepping over from England to Scotland or Wales but the penalty applies to the whole of the UK but cant think of any?

the closest are perhaps bylaws say on drinking in public but its a fine not a nationwide ban for a localised issue.

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th January 10:48

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th January 10:50

[TooMany2cvs]

superlightr said:

TooMany2cvs said:

CAPP0 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gotta be a cockup by the paper, surely? Minimum ban for a first offence drink-drive is 1yr. Mind you, he wasn't very far over the limit - and would have been legal anywhere else in the UK. 33ug/100ml, versus a limit of 22 in Scotland and 35 elsewhere.

May have already been asked - but what if an English driver gets convicted at, say, 30ug in Scotland; do they lose their licence to drive in the UK, or only in Scotland?

Yes. The limit applies locally, the ban applies nationally.

that's a bit strange is it not?

No, not really.

Your argument is like saying that because you were banned for speeding on a motorway, you can drive on all other roads.

[xjay1337]

TooMany2cvs said:

superlightr said:

TooMany2cvs said:

CAPP0 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gotta be a cockup by the paper, surely? Minimum ban for a first offence drink-drive is 1yr. Mind you, he wasn't very far over the limit - and would have been legal anywhere else in the UK. 33ug/100ml, versus a limit of 22 in Scotland and 35 elsewhere.

May have already been asked - but what if an English driver gets convicted at, say, 30ug in Scotland; do they lose their licence to drive in the UK, or only in Scotland?

Yes. The limit applies locally, the ban applies nationally.

that's a bit strange is it not?

No, not really.

Your argument is like saying that because you were banned for speeding on a motorway, you can drive on all other roads.

Not really, is it.....

Motorways have the same speed limit across the whole country.

[TooMany2cvs]

xjay1337 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

superlightr said:

TooMany2cvs said:

CAPP0 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gotta be a cockup by the paper, surely? Minimum ban for a first offence drink-drive is 1yr. Mind you, he wasn't very far over the limit - and would have been legal anywhere else in the UK. 33ug/100ml, versus a limit of 22 in Scotland and 35 elsewhere.

May have already been asked - but what if an English driver gets convicted at, say, 30ug in Scotland; do they lose their licence to drive in the UK, or only in Scotland?

Yes. The limit applies locally, the ban applies nationally.

that's a bit strange is it not?

No, not really.

Your argument is like saying that because you were banned for speeding on a motorway, you can drive on all other roads.

Not really, is it.....

Motorways have the same speed limit across the whole country.

Apart from that missing my point entirely, you're saying every single bit of motorway in the UK is a 70 limit?

[ModernAndy]

superlightr said:

that's a bit strange is it not?


Legal in the England but illegal in Scotland - sure a ban in Scotland but Shirley unfair for a ban in England to apply? The same limits should apply nationwide if it were to be a nationwide driving ban.

Just trying to think of other comparisons where the bar changes for the offence in the UK when stepping over from England to Scotland or Wales but the penalty applies to the whole of the UK but cant think of any?

the closest are perhaps bylaws say on drinking in public but its a fine not a nationwide ban for a localised issue.

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th January 10:48

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th January 10:50

You'll find it difficult to make a comparison simply because a driving license is about the only thing most people can get revoked from them. Most other things that would be offences only in Scotland (not that there are many) would not lead to effects to a person when down in England or Wales. They'd just get you a fine or some form of punishment at a court or on the spot.

There might be plenty of things that would see a business lose a UK license for an offence in Scotland (again, alcohol being a good example).

[The Mad Monk]

julian64 said:

Tosh. Everyone makes mistakes, every large organisation makes mistakes. DVLA is far from perfect. No matter what you do or say or how many letters you write they will always make mistakes.

The original advice was sound. continue to drive and just let the DVLA know. The chances or this ending up with you arrested were virtually zero, and the chances of you being uninsured at the site of an accident were also zero.

Too many hand wringers on this thread.

Absojollylutely spot on.

Except that for most of the hand wringers here, their wrists are too limp do it properly.

Someone made a mistake, it's now sorted. Move on.

[xjay1337]

TooMany2cvs said:

xjay1337 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

superlightr said:

TooMany2cvs said:

CAPP0 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gotta be a cockup by the paper, surely? Minimum ban for a first offence drink-drive is 1yr. Mind you, he wasn't very far over the limit - and would have been legal anywhere else in the UK. 33ug/100ml, versus a limit of 22 in Scotland and 35 elsewhere.

May have already been asked - but what if an English driver gets convicted at, say, 30ug in Scotland; do they lose their licence to drive in the UK, or only in Scotland?

Yes. The limit applies locally, the ban applies nationally.

that's a bit strange is it not?

No, not really.

Your argument is like saying that because you were banned for speeding on a motorway, you can drive on all other roads.

Not really, is it.....

Motorways have the same speed limit across the whole country.

Apart from that missing my point entirely, you're saying every single bit of motorway in the UK is a 70 limit?

Oh, here comes the classic 2CV argumentative streak to gain additional post count to boost ones ego.

Every motorway is governed by the national speed limit. Unless other signs are present.

The question is interesting, if you were caught over the Scottish DD limit, but below the UK Limit as a UK Resident but in Scotland, to be banned nationally may raise some questions. What happens if you were on a back road near the border and crossed without necessarily realising it?

I do not condone DD at all. It's stupid. But the question is there, and your comparison of saying that's like being caught speeding on a motorway at 70 is not valid, because generally motorways are all the same speed limit. Where as DD has different limits north or south of the border and there is no easy way to measure your BAC unlike using a speedometer...

[KevinCamaroSS]

If banned in Scotland just hand them your Scottish driving licence....

[Red Devil]

xjay1337 said:

What happens if you were on a back road near the border and crossed without necessarily realising it?

Like this? - https://goo.gl/maps/X5HtXY23qEo

Only someone familiar with the area would know that the border no longer followed the River Tweed.

Pedal to the metal and escape to England on the far side of the bridge.
No excuse going the other way though as the front of that sign tells you.

No such clue here though - https://goo.gl/maps/5UvSKnmakEp
Or here - https://goo.gl/maps/cykaisiweaT2

Both of those two Street View images have not been updated for quite some time, so things may have changed.
In fact the roads which traverse the border are relatively few in number and nearly all of them have signs.

[xRIEx]

xjay1337 said:

The question is interesting, if you were caught over the Scottish DD limit, but below the UK Limit as a UK Resident but in Scotland, to be banned nationally may raise some questions. What happens if you were on a back road near the border and crossed without necessarily realising it?

I do not condone DD at all. It's stupid. But the question is there, and your comparison of saying that's like being caught speeding on a motorway at 70 is not valid, because generally motorways are all the same speed limit. Where as DD has different limits north or south of the border and there is no easy way to measure your BAC unlike using a speedometer...

It is an interesting question, but it's not too difficult to answer: you obey the local laws of the jurisdiction you are in. Should a Dutch person be let off if they are caught smoking weed in the UK just because it's legal in the Netherlands (or Holland, or Amsterdam - I'm not sure where the permission is applicable). Various states in the US have different laws from each other (or variations on the same laws, etc.), but if you commit a crime in one state you receive punishment in that state and your criminal record applies in the whole country (I've no doubt traffic laws vary by state in some cases).

The law in Scotland specifies a blood alcohol level - if you exceed that level when in that jurisdiction, you've broken that law.

[jith]

superlightr said:

TooMany2cvs said:

CAPP0 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gotta be a cockup by the paper, surely? Minimum ban for a first offence drink-drive is 1yr. Mind you, he wasn't very far over the limit - and would have been legal anywhere else in the UK. 33ug/100ml, versus a limit of 22 in Scotland and 35 elsewhere.

May have already been asked - but what if an English driver gets convicted at, say, 30ug in Scotland; do they lose their licence to drive in the UK, or only in Scotland?

Yes. The limit applies locally, the ban applies nationally.

that's a bit strange is it not?


Legal in the England but illegal in Scotland - sure a ban in Scotland but Shirley unfair for a ban in England to apply? The same limits should apply nationwide if it were to be a nationwide driving ban.

Just trying to think of other comparisons where the bar changes for the offence in the UK when stepping over from England to Scotland or Wales but the penalty applies to the whole of the UK but cant think of any?

the closest are perhaps bylaws say on drinking in public but its a fine not a nationwide ban for a localised issue.

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th January 10:48

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 5th January 10:50

I'm going to make a prediction here. I was totally opposed to the limit being lowered in Scotland for two reasons. The first is it won't make a jot of differece to the problem of drunk driving, as those near the limit are not the problem, those who are seriously drunk are.

Secondly, it is clearly out of harmony with the rest of the UK, and this will open the door for legal challenges on those grounds. You are drunk in Gretna, but sober, just 200 yards over the border in Cumbria. The problem is obvious and it will be challenged probably by someone like a footballer who has a massive income and cares not about the legal costs. Bear in mind, in criminal cases in Scotland you don't get a penny in expenses from the courts even if you win outright. It is arguably the worst prejudice in the whole Scottish legal system, and an obvious deterrent to defence.

J

[Finlandia]

TooMany2cvs said:

CAPP0 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gotta be a cockup by the paper, surely? Minimum ban for a first offence drink-drive is 1yr. Mind you, he wasn't very far over the limit - and would have been legal anywhere else in the UK. 33ug/100ml, versus a limit of 22 in Scotland and 35 elsewhere.

May have already been asked - but what if an English driver gets convicted at, say, 30ug in Scotland; do they lose their licence to drive in the UK, or only in Scotland?

Yes. The limit applies locally, the ban applies nationally.

That's a bit like if you have been banned from driving in France, then you are also banned from driving in the rest of the union. Which you are not.

[Gavia]

jith said:

I'm going to make a prediction here. I was totally opposed to the limit being lowered in Scotland for two reasons. The first is it won't make a jot of differece to the problem of drunk driving, as those near the limit are not the problem, those who are seriously drunk are.

Secondly, it is clearly out of harmony with the rest of the UK, and this will open the door for legal challenges on those grounds. You are drunk in Gretna, but sober, just 200 yards over the border in Cumbria. The problem is obvious and it will be challenged probably by someone like a footballer who has a massive income and cares not about the legal costs. Bear in mind, in criminal cases in Scotland you don't get a penny in expenses from the courts even if you win outright. It is arguably the worst prejudice in the whole Scottish legal system, and an obvious deterrent to defence.

J

Your first prediction is more of an opinion than anything else and predicts nothing.

The second isn't great either. Scottish footballers don't earn mega money and the nearest big paying English club is Newcastle and it's unlikely someone will drive all the way through Northumberland without a drink just to make a point. On the West coast you're all the way down to Manchester before you find a high paying PL club (Burnley aren't high payers).

There's no challenge though on the argument that "it's legal over there, so it should be here too". There are two legal systems in the U.K. English & Welsh and Scots & NI, that is well established and precedents in one jurisdiction don't automatically transfer to another.

[Vaud]

jith said:

Secondly, it is clearly out of harmony with the rest of the UK, and this will open the door for legal challenges on those grounds. You are drunk in Gretna, but sober, just 200 yards over the border in Cumbria. The problem is obvious and it will be challenged probably by someone like a footballer who has a massive income and cares not about the legal costs. Bear in mind, in criminal cases in Scotland you don't get a penny in expenses from the courts even if you win outright. It is arguably the worst prejudice in the whole Scottish legal system, and an obvious deterrent to defence.

The benefits of devolution. Added complexity.

[matchmaker]

jith said:

Bear in mind, in criminal cases in Scotland you don't get a penny in expenses from the courts even if you win outright. It is arguably the worst prejudice in the whole Scottish legal system, and an obvious deterrent to defence.

J

You have failed to mention the fact that you don't pay a penny in prosecution expenses in 99% of criminal cases in Scotland...

[TooMany2cvs]

Finlandia said:

TooMany2cvs said:

CAPP0 said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Gotta be a cockup by the paper, surely? Minimum ban for a first offence drink-drive is 1yr. Mind you, he wasn't very far over the limit - and would have been legal anywhere else in the UK. 33ug/100ml, versus a limit of 22 in Scotland and 35 elsewhere.

May have already been asked - but what if an English driver gets convicted at, say, 30ug in Scotland; do they lose their licence to drive in the UK, or only in Scotland?

Yes. The limit applies locally, the ban applies nationally.

That's a bit like if you have been banned from driving in France, then you are also banned from driving in the rest of the union. Which you are not.

No, not really. France and the UK aren't the same country.

But it would be sensible.

[Cliftonite]

matchmaker said:

jith said:

Bear in mind, in criminal cases in Scotland you don't get a penny in expenses from the courts even if you win outright. It is arguably the worst prejudice in the whole Scottish legal system, and an obvious deterrent to defence.

J

You have failed to mention the fact that you don't pay a penny in prosecution expenses in 99% of criminal cases in Scotland...

Why ruin a perfectly good post by introducing balanced, reasonable argument?

[KevinCamaroSS]

Finlandia said:

That's a bit like if you have been banned from driving in France, then you are also banned from driving in the rest of the union. Which you are not.

No, it is not. Scotland is part of the United Kingdom, it is the UK that issues the licence. In your example the EU would have to issue the licence, not the individual country.

[matchmaker]

Cliftonite said:

matchmaker said:

jith said:

Bear in mind, in criminal cases in Scotland you don't get a penny in expenses from the courts even if you win outright. It is arguably the worst prejudice in the whole Scottish legal system, and an obvious deterrent to defence.

J

You have failed to mention the fact that you don't pay a penny in prosecution expenses in 99% of criminal cases in Scotland...

Why ruin a perfectly good post by introducing balanced, reasonable argument?

Sorry

[ModernAndy]

jith said:

I'm going to make a prediction here. I was totally opposed to the limit being lowered in Scotland for two reasons. The first is it won't make a jot of differece to the problem of drunk driving, as those near the limit are not the problem, those who are seriously drunk are.

I am now extremely careful when thinking about driving the day after a night out knowing that I'll have alcohol in the system for a fair bit of the next day. That's maybe one thing that does tackle an aspect of drink driving. I think it's about a third of prosecutions are for people driving after waking up and driving after a night out.

I don't mix alcohol and driving at all, not even a shandy, so I don't have an issue with the limit being lower. I think it is generally a good thing to discourage any drinking at all where people are driving soon after. Like you say, it's not going to make much difference to those who do drive way above the alcohol limit. In fact, there's recently been an appeal where a drunk driver's ban was cut dramatically as the initial ban was based on them being several times the drink drive limit. The appeal found that the sentence should have been equivalent to somebody at the same level of alcohol in their system as England rather than being based on how many times over the Scottish limit they were.