Right of way when exiting a roundabout?
Discussion
As far as I know, a pedestrian walking along a main road and crossing a side road has priority over a car which wants to turn into that side road.
What about roundabouts?
I have to negotiate a 3-way roundabout on my way to college. Built up area, exits evenly spaced, narrow roads and pavements, so the view along one of the 3 roads is restricted as a pedestrian. Cars coming along this road and wishing to take the first exit can easily see that their entry onto the roundabout is clear, so they rarely slow down. What they can't see until they are on the roundabout is me, as a pedestrian, crossing the road that they want to take as the exit.
Where I am crossing has dropped kerbs and a central reserve, set back a few metres from the roundabout. Had a few near misses here. Legally, who has priority?
What about roundabouts?
I have to negotiate a 3-way roundabout on my way to college. Built up area, exits evenly spaced, narrow roads and pavements, so the view along one of the 3 roads is restricted as a pedestrian. Cars coming along this road and wishing to take the first exit can easily see that their entry onto the roundabout is clear, so they rarely slow down. What they can't see until they are on the roundabout is me, as a pedestrian, crossing the road that they want to take as the exit.
Where I am crossing has dropped kerbs and a central reserve, set back a few metres from the roundabout. Had a few near misses here. Legally, who has priority?
Due to the layout and visibility issues, I can't see cars driving along this road until they are 3 or 4 metres from the roundabout. I should've said that it's a painted mini roundabout. The roundabout can look clear as I step off the kerb, but a car can be on top of me by the time I'm halfway across.
It's always me that takes avoiding action, either running to complete the crossing, or stepping backwards. The cars just keep going, like they haven't seen me at all. I know that I'm vulnerable on this crossing, so I'm continually looking over my right shoulder.
I'm just wondering where fault would lie if the worst happened. Having dropped kerbs and a central refuge, it's obviously designed as a crossing point, but there are no road markings to tell drivers to give way like there would be on the entry to a side road or crossing.
It's always me that takes avoiding action, either running to complete the crossing, or stepping backwards. The cars just keep going, like they haven't seen me at all. I know that I'm vulnerable on this crossing, so I'm continually looking over my right shoulder.
I'm just wondering where fault would lie if the worst happened. Having dropped kerbs and a central refuge, it's obviously designed as a crossing point, but there are no road markings to tell drivers to give way like there would be on the entry to a side road or crossing.
clockworks said:
Due to the layout and visibility issues, I can't see cars driving along this road until they are 3 or 4 metres from the roundabout. I should've said that it's a painted mini roundabout. The roundabout can look clear as I step off the kerb, but a car can be on top of me by the time I'm halfway across.
It's always me that takes avoiding action, either running to complete the crossing, or stepping backwards. The cars just keep going, like they haven't seen me at all. I know that I'm vulnerable on this crossing, so I'm continually looking over my right shoulder.
I'm just wondering where fault would lie if the worst happened. Having dropped kerbs and a central refuge, it's obviously designed as a crossing point, but there are no road markings to tell drivers to give way like there would be on the entry to a side road or crossing.
It may well be 'designed' as a crossing place, but, has it been designated as an official crossing with the correct hardware and signage? By what you say I suspect it is not. In your position I would simply walk down the road 10 or 15 metres and cross there, then walk back up the other side of the road. Much better to be safe than sorry.It's always me that takes avoiding action, either running to complete the crossing, or stepping backwards. The cars just keep going, like they haven't seen me at all. I know that I'm vulnerable on this crossing, so I'm continually looking over my right shoulder.
I'm just wondering where fault would lie if the worst happened. Having dropped kerbs and a central refuge, it's obviously designed as a crossing point, but there are no road markings to tell drivers to give way like there would be on the entry to a side road or crossing.
During your "risk assessment" of this crossing point, you've identified it as having limited visibility for both yourself of incoming cars, and therefore for the cars of you crossing? But you still want to consider crossing there?
We have a similar junction near us, newly built dropped kerbs, islands, tactile paving... But you can't see if it's clear to cross at that point.
Instead we go 10 metres along the side road to a point where we have sufficient visibility.
Do they not teach the green cross code at schools any more?
We have a similar junction near us, newly built dropped kerbs, islands, tactile paving... But you can't see if it's clear to cross at that point.
Instead we go 10 metres along the side road to a point where we have sufficient visibility.
Do they not teach the green cross code at schools any more?
KevinCamaroSS said:
It may well be 'designed' as a crossing place, but, has it been designated as an official crossing with the correct hardware and signage? By what you say I suspect it is not. In your position I would simply walk down the road 10 or 15 metres and cross there, then walk back up the other side of the road. Much better to be safe than sorry.
At certain times of the day, that would be the best way to cross the road. Due to traffic flows, it would possibly be more dangerous for me.There is a lot more traffic approaching the roundabout on the road that I am crossing. I can cross this traffic safely, as it has often stopped and queued at the central refuge. Crossing further up the road would put me up against moving traffic in both directions, with no central refuge.
If I were to cross over before I got to the roundabout, there is no pavement on the other side.
I think the local authority have put the crossing point in the most suitable place at this junction, but maybe should've added a zebra crossing. It's possible that a zebra would make things worse though. Car drivers approaching the roundabout on the "blind" road wouldn't see the crossing in advance, and pedestrians may take more risks because they feel safer.
I've just looked at a government document showing recommended layouts and markings for mini roundabouts, and none of them show dashed lines on the exit lanes, only on the entry lanes. Looks like the exits aren't classified as side roads, so pedestrians don't have priority when crossing.
clockworks said:
As far as I know, a pedestrian walking along a main road and crossing a side road has priority over a car which wants to turn into that side road.
Really? I know that every day is a school day, but I would have thought that road users have priority on the road over pedestrians who are not on the road.Even at a zebra crossing, my understanding is that the highway code says that you 'should' stop to let someone cross who is waiting on the pavement, but that the pedestrian only has right of way once he has set foot off the pavement onto the crossing.
Extract from the Highway Code - pedestrian's section.
"Rule 8
At a junction. When crossing the road, look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you. If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way"
I suggest you petition your local councillor to get a proper light controlled, or zebra, crossing installed.
And in the mean time take care and wear bright reflective clothing, especially at this time of year.
Speaking as a driver, I find pedestrians, joggers and cyclists much easier to see early and avoid if they are as visible as possible.
No driver is trying to kill or injure you, but you will be the one who gets killed regardless of right of way.
Also, the Highway Code seems to be ignored by most road users these days.
For example, how many cars have you seen parked within 10 metres of a junction (Rule 243)?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code
"Rule 8
At a junction. When crossing the road, look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you. If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way"
I suggest you petition your local councillor to get a proper light controlled, or zebra, crossing installed.
And in the mean time take care and wear bright reflective clothing, especially at this time of year.
Speaking as a driver, I find pedestrians, joggers and cyclists much easier to see early and avoid if they are as visible as possible.
No driver is trying to kill or injure you, but you will be the one who gets killed regardless of right of way.
Also, the Highway Code seems to be ignored by most road users these days.
For example, how many cars have you seen parked within 10 metres of a junction (Rule 243)?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code
Jarcy said:
Really? I know that every day is a school day, but I would have thought that road users have priority on the road over pedestrians who are not on the road.
Even at a zebra crossing, my understanding is that the highway code says that you 'should' stop to let someone cross who is waiting on the pavement, but that the pedestrian only has right of way once he has set foot off the pavement onto the crossing.
I meant pedestrians who has started crossing, even if they had just put one foot onto the roadway. Personally, as a driver, I look out for pedestrians who may be about to cross, and prepare to give way. If they aren't looking my way, I'll stop.Even at a zebra crossing, my understanding is that the highway code says that you 'should' stop to let someone cross who is waiting on the pavement, but that the pedestrian only has right of way once he has set foot off the pavement onto the crossing.
The problem with the roundabout in question is poor sight lines for both pedestrians and drivers. It's made worse because drivers can clearly see that their entry onto the roundabout is clear, so they don't slow down at all. The fact that they can't see that their exit is clear doesn't seem to occur to some of them, they just drive through at 25 or 30.
clockworks said:
Personally, as a driver, I look out for pedestrians who may be about to cross, and prepare to give way. If they aren't looking my way, I'll stop.
Certainly - but I am also conscious of the risks of stopping on the main road (or roundabout) to give way to a pedestrian, and having someone hit you up the chuff. Unaware drivers behind you will see your indicator and a clear road, and assume that you'll progress into the turning out of their way.Making eye contact with the pedestrians is the safest way to progress, whether the result is you stop for them or not.
DaveH23 said:
Ive been knocked over twice as a child. Once by a car one by a landrover.
It hurts.
Ignore who has right of way and cross when you can see the road is clear or cross somewhere else.
Yes, it does!It hurts.
Ignore who has right of way and cross when you can see the road is clear or cross somewhere else.
As to your last, agree, ignore right of way/priorities and ask yourself "Is it SAFE?" It surprises me that this needs to be stated to people, does no one remember the Green Cross Code? (Is it still taught?)
Jarcy said:
clockworks said:
As far as I know, a pedestrian walking along a main road and crossing a side road has priority over a car which wants to turn into that side road.
Really? I know that every day is a school day, but I would have thought that road users have priority on the road over pedestrians who are not on the road.Even at a zebra crossing, my understanding is that the highway code says that you 'should' stop to let someone cross who is waiting on the pavement, but that the pedestrian only has right of way once he has set foot off the pavement onto the crossing.
Jarcy said:
Really? I know that every day is a school day, but I would have thought that road users have priority on the road over pedestrians who are not on the road.
Even at a zebra crossing, my understanding is that the highway code says that you 'should' stop to let someone cross who is waiting on the pavement, but that the pedestrian only has right of way once he has set foot off the pavement onto the crossing.
Both the carriageway and pavement form part of the road so both pedestrian and driver are road users. Priority can change at junctions, HC rule 170: "watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way".Even at a zebra crossing, my understanding is that the highway code says that you 'should' stop to let someone cross who is waiting on the pavement, but that the pedestrian only has right of way once he has set foot off the pavement onto the crossing.
Zebra crossings are an odd one if you really look into it. Whether the pedestrian has their foot on the crossing is only the start of it..
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/part/...
Pedestrian only has precedence over cars where they have set their foot on the crossing BEFORE the approaching car enters the zig-zagged limits.
I think this is a case where the letter of the law on priority only serves to confuse, and self preservation (pedestrian) and common decency (drivers) should prevail.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/2400/part/...
Section 25 said:
Precedence of pedestrians over vehicles at Zebra crossings
25.—(1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, ........8<........, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian.
If the car is within the limits before pedestrian sets foot on the crossing, the car has priority.25.—(1) Every pedestrian, if he is on the carriageway within the limits of a Zebra crossing, ........8<........, before any part of a vehicle has entered those limits, shall have precedence within those limits over that vehicle and the driver of the vehicle shall accord such precedence to any such pedestrian.
Pedestrian only has precedence over cars where they have set their foot on the crossing BEFORE the approaching car enters the zig-zagged limits.
I think this is a case where the letter of the law on priority only serves to confuse, and self preservation (pedestrian) and common decency (drivers) should prevail.
Chester draws said:
If the car is within the limits before pedestrian sets foot on the crossing, the car has priority.
Pedestrian only has precedence over cars where they have set their foot on the crossing BEFORE the approaching car enters the zig-zagged limits.
I think this is a case where the letter of the law on priority only serves to confuse, and self preservation (pedestrian) and common decency (drivers) should prevail.
I think you might be confusing the limits of the controlled area and the limits of the pedestrian crossing. Pedestrian only has precedence over cars where they have set their foot on the crossing BEFORE the approaching car enters the zig-zagged limits.
I think this is a case where the letter of the law on priority only serves to confuse, and self preservation (pedestrian) and common decency (drivers) should prevail.
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