Civil Enforcement ltd.

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M11 MFP

Original Poster:

687 posts

192 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Received a £100 parking charge from this cheerful bunch last week. Overstay beyond a free parking period by 51 minutes.

Only real defence may be that the area was deserted after Christmas - One other car when I parked, none when I left.

Idiotic on my part, as I could have easily parked adjacent to the area being controlled by CEL for a well known fast food chain (no reciept).

Advice please. Pay the compassionate £60 discounted fee (10 days), or refer to POPLA, PePIPoo perhaps?

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
What would be your basis of appeal?

M11 MFP

Original Poster:

687 posts

192 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Not sure there is much basis, other than the fact I didn't impede others from parking during overstay, as there were no other cars there. Not reading the signage is no defence (I assume it is was there). I anticipate a warden may not have given me a ticket as it was a bank holiday and the rest of the car park was free! (it was ANPR). I regard £100 as excessively punitive for a minor transgression, which didn't impede other customers or the business.

KevinCamaroSS

11,555 posts

279 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
M11 MFP said:
Not sure there is much basis, other than the fact I didn't impede others from parking during overstay, as there were no other cars there. Not reading the signage is no defence (I assume it is was there). I anticipate a warden may not have given me a ticket as it was a bank holiday and the rest of the car park was free! (it was ANPR). I regard £100 as excessively punitive for a minor transgression, which didn't impede other customers or the business.
What does the signage say regarding public holidays?

M11 MFP

Original Poster:

687 posts

192 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Just checked. Nope, enforced 24hr 365 days a year via ANPR. In a small font about 12ft from the ground, presumably so the signs aren't removed easily.

Drumroll

3,738 posts

119 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Sorry, as much as I hate these parking enforcement companies, on this one I would say tough luck you clearly exceeded the time, pay up. Just out of interest what would you use as your appeal?

mr rusty

193 posts

91 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Almost always these private tickets can be got off. have a look at http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/ and http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.p...

voyds9

8,488 posts

282 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
What would be your basis of appeal?
Genuine assessment of loses? Car park empty so what have they lost.

M11 MFP

Original Poster:

687 posts

192 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
voyds9 said:
Genuine assessment of loses? Car park empty so what have they lost.
Exactly this, with an admission of error and acknowledgment of my failure to appreciate the enforcement on public holidays.

This worked before with Parking Eye, who waived a greater overstay than this, with a valid reciept from the store in question, and on a normal working day.

I don't have a receipt from the business concerned this time, but who does from anonburger 10 days later.

It's a works vehicle too, so they don't know the driver, but are keen to acquire this information judging by their threatening paragraph. Pretty sure I don't need to supply it in response to a private car parking companies invoice?

I'm aware this company fines (invoices) at the highest permissible level and is very litigious. They have recently been in court for fraudulently fishing money using legal jargon not valid in Scotland. Also for reissuing threatening PCNs over five years old in England, in anticipation new legal processes aiding their cause will milk significant cash from those who escaped justice in the early days of the private parking cash cow.


Edited by M11 MFP on Friday 13th January 18:08

Mandat

3,881 posts

237 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
I would always try to appeal, on the basis that you might be lucky and have an appeal upheld.

Last year, I intentionally parked in a disabled bay paperbag (between 1am - 4am, before I get flamed), with the knowledge that I might have to pay a PCN, but I thought that I'd risk it at that time of morning.

Anyway, a PCN was duly issued at 01.45, but rather than paying straightaway, I decided to appeal on the off chance it might be accepted by the council. It was indeed accepted, and the PCN was cancelled.

The key to a successful appeal is carefully preparing and presenting your argument as to why the PCN was incorrectly issued.

rainmakerraw

1,222 posts

125 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Mandat said:
Last year, I intentionally parked in a disabled bay paperbag (between 1am - 4am, before I get flamed),
That's alright then. Everyone knows us disabled folk don't venture out after dark. hehe If I had a pound for every time we've not been able to park somewhere from evening time onwards because the disabled bays were packed with taxis, vans and cars without badges I'd be a very rich man. I honestly don't understand why people just assume the disabled regrow their legs at night.

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Was it dark, was it raining, did you even notice any signage?

M11 MFP

Original Poster:

687 posts

192 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Boosted LS1 said:
Was it dark, was it raining, did you even notice any signage?
Daylight i'm afraid.

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
M11 MFP said:
Boosted LS1 said:
Was it dark, was it raining, did you even notice any signage?
Daylight i'm afraid.
Did you have your glasses?

M11 MFP

Original Poster:

687 posts

192 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Yea, I'll furnish them with a picture of Stevie Wonder.

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Friday 13th January 2017
quotequote all
Don't forget the white stick. Main thing is that you didn't read or accept their contract.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Saturday 14th January 2017
quotequote all
voyds9 said:
Genuine assessment of loses? Car park empty so what have they lost.
See Beavis v ParkingEye

Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Saturday 14th January 2017
quotequote all
Mandat said:
I would always try to appeal, on the basis that you might be lucky and have an appeal upheld.

Last year, I intentionally parked in a disabled bay paperbag (between 1am - 4am, before I get flamed), with the knowledge that I might have to pay a PCN, but I thought that I'd risk it at that time of morning.

Anyway, a PCN was duly issued at 01.45, but rather than paying straightaway, I decided to appeal on the off chance it might be accepted by the council. It was indeed accepted, and the PCN was cancelled.
A local authority PCN is a completely different ball game. Dealt with under statute not contract law.

Mandat said:
The key to a successful appeal is carefully preparing and presenting your argument as to why the PCN was incorrectly issued.
yes This is true for any dispute. See below.

M11 MFP said:
Only real defence may be that the area was deserted after Christmas - One other car when I parked, none when I left.
No. Don't even think of trying that one because you will fall at the first hurdle.

M11 MFP said:
voyds9 said:
Genuine assessment of loses? Car park empty so what have they lost.

Exactly this, with an admission of error and acknowledgment of my failure to appreciate the enforcement on public holidays.
This worked before with Parking Eye, who waived a greater overstay than this, with a valid reciept from the store in question, and on a normal working day.

I don't have a receipt from the business concerned this time, but who does from anonburger 10 days later.

It's a works vehicle too, so they don't know the driver, but are keen to acquire this information judging by their threatening paragraph. Pretty sure I don't need to supply it in response to a private car parking companies invoice?
Be very careful before even attempting GPEOL as a defence. Read the Beavis judgement closely for why.
There are other, better, ways of dealing with this.

If it's a works vehicle who exactly is the PCN addressed to? How did it find its way to you?

M11 MFP said:
I'm aware this company fines (invoices) at the highest permissible level and is very litigious.
Litigious? Only if you think threatograms meet that definition. This suggests that few CEL cases make it to court - http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Civil_Enforcement.h...

M11 MFP said:
They have recently been in court for fraudulently fishing money using legal jargon not valid in Scotland.
Recently? I think your defintion thereof is somewhat wide of the mark. CEL were prosecuted for fraud in an action brought by Trading Standards in Aberdeen.
Between them, TS and the PF made a complete fist of the case and lost: 12 months ago - https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/par...

M11 MFP said:
Also for reissuing threatening PCNs over five years old in England, in anticipation new legal processes aiding their cause will milk significant cash from those who escaped justice in the early days of the private parking cash cow.
What new legal processes? Link to source please. PoFA 2012 is not retrospective, so keeper liability on anything prior to 01/10/2012 will fail.

You need to be aware that CEL's PCNs are non-compliant with PoFA 2012. Read this and compare with the PCN then you will see why.
Get yourself over to MSE and pepipoo, do your homework, and find out how to kick it into the long grass. PH is not the most suitable forum for this.



anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 14th January 2017
quotequote all
rainmakerraw said:
Mandat said:
Last year, I intentionally parked in a disabled bay paperbag (between 1am - 4am, before I get flamed),
That's alright then. Everyone knows us disabled folk don't venture out after dark. hehe If I had a pound for every time we've not been able to park somewhere from evening time onwards because the disabled bays were packed with taxis, vans and cars without badges I'd be a very rich man. I honestly don't understand why people just assume the disabled regrow their legs at night.

May be the case where you live but around where I am most blocks of disabled spaces are half empty at the busiest of times let alone the middle of the night.

SVTRick

3,633 posts

194 months

Saturday 14th January 2017
quotequote all
Give then the name of the driver.
And their European address.