No front numberplate - legal?
Discussion
rlw said:
Am I missing something? In this day of front facing cameras, SPECS etc etc, HTF can these guys get away with it?
They actually seem to be changing most cameras to rear facing these days; you notice it a lot when you have a motorbike. You could hack down the motorway or through crappy average speed cameras without much concern. I guess rear facing are better for them as it will clock cars and bikes; probably why they aren't too concerned about clamping down on those without a front plate.I wonder if they take a harder line on no rear plate? It does tend to look more obvious....
janesmith1950 said:
If you're caught avoiding various camera based enforcement occasions due to a purposely missing front plate you might have a case to answer for more serious offences...
Private ANPR cameras you should be fine, its all the others.ANPR in my mind should never of been sold to non goverment agencies! If my local council want to use it to work our journey times they claim ok. If the police and NCA want to use okay.
Just baliffs other than dvla and private parking bandits should never of been allowed.
think this is the answer>
http://www.speedflip.com/product-info
Edited by surveyor_101 on Wednesday 18th January 15:54
surveyor_101 said:
Private ANPR cameras you should be fine, its all the others.
ANPR in my mind should never of been sold to non goverment agencies! If my local council want to use it to work our journey times they claim ok. If the police and NCA want to use okay.
Just baliffs other than dvla and private parking bandits should never of been allowed.
think this is the answer>
http://www.speedflip.com/product-info
ANPR is a mixed blessing - it has helped with the recovery of a number of my missing vehicles, but has also caused a lot of headaches with parking tickets. I have had a couple of successes at POPLA in the past with challenging the accuracy of ANPR in private car parks, but not yet had the chance to make the same challenge in front of a judge. I do still have a few pending cases though where it is one of my defence points, so watch this space...ANPR in my mind should never of been sold to non goverment agencies! If my local council want to use it to work our journey times they claim ok. If the police and NCA want to use okay.
Just baliffs other than dvla and private parking bandits should never of been allowed.
think this is the answer>
http://www.speedflip.com/product-info
In short, there is no defined method of calibrating them, or verifying that times are correct or what their detection ratio is. They are probably good as a back-up system, but as a primary method of enforcement, it is hugely flawed.
Even the many Dart and Congestion charges I see, along with Red route, bus lane and box junction fines that we see from councils are regularly inaccurate. I have a PCN photograph on my desk right now of a Black Kia Sportage - the reg on the photograph ends with a W, our black Sportage reg ends with an M...
3 months of emails, phone calls, appeals, statutory declarations and general pissf
kery all because someone public sector nobber can't double check a photograph. /end-rant.
SpamCan said:
swerni said:
Sorry, i was just confirming your second line, not disagreeing with you.
"There are no front number plate exemptions for imports that I am aware of "
Ahh fair enough "There are no front number plate exemptions for imports that I am aware of "
Boosted LS1 said:
I thought that pre 'a certain year' there were exemptions? A lot of vettes have no place to mount a front plate. Presumably they passed SVA without a plate.
Cars over 10 years old are SVA or as it is now IVA exempt so its down to the MOT tester whether or not they let it slip though.Boosted LS1 said:
..... A lot of vettes have no place to mount a front plate. Presumably they passed SVA without a plate.
As front licence plates are a legal requirement in many of the states in the USA, all Corvettes, from the C1 to the C8, have had the ability to have a front number plate mounted to them one way or another - As shown by doing a quick search of "Corvette C* front licence plate" (Insert a number from 1 to 8 where the * sign is).Some may have had the front plate mount removed or never ordered in the first place, but all models have been able to be optioned to have a front plate fitted.
I've been pulled once for not having a front plate on display. Strangely, it was Police Transit that pulled me! I was warned that no front plate carries a fine and that local traffic Police were on the lookout for such indiscretions.
He seemed more understanding when I showed him the plate in the boot, whereby I explained it kept falling off when I knocked it against speed bumps, odd gradients etc. He recommended that I refit the place ASAP, otherwise I ran the risk ...
In other words, if you're going to drive a car without a front plate, just leave a dirty/scratched front plate in your boot for proof!
I also had a 3/4 sized plate on my S2 for many years - Not strictly legal, but never pulled/fined.
He seemed more understanding when I showed him the plate in the boot, whereby I explained it kept falling off when I knocked it against speed bumps, odd gradients etc. He recommended that I refit the place ASAP, otherwise I ran the risk ...
In other words, if you're going to drive a car without a front plate, just leave a dirty/scratched front plate in your boot for proof!
I also had a 3/4 sized plate on my S2 for many years - Not strictly legal, but never pulled/fined.
Joe5y said:
I never had one on my Mx5 back in my yoof. Was pulled over once in 2 years and I told them it had been nicked. Got given a crime number and I was off on my way. Was told to get a new one asap - which being 18 I didn't. I dread to think what they'd have done if they'd caught me again.
You would have been able to have a go at them, as the number plate thief has still not been caught, and obviously struck again!SpamCan said:
rsox87 said:
Surely in this case "import" means a car with no reasonable place to put one, and that has been imported from outside of the UN/EU type approval area (and hence doesn't have a certificate of conformity from the manufacturer), and not just "a car made abroad". My car is as much of an "import" as a 458 is and I can't get away without having a front plate.
My understanding has always been that for a car to be legal without having a front number plate "because it's an import" it would have to not be homologated in the EU, have been imported from somewhere where you don't have to have a front number plate (which is just a few states in the USA IIRC?) and have a front end design that doesn't have anywhere appropriate to fit one. A Camaro ZL1, perhaps?
Import means a car make or model that is not officially sold in the UK.My understanding has always been that for a car to be legal without having a front number plate "because it's an import" it would have to not be homologated in the EU, have been imported from somewhere where you don't have to have a front number plate (which is just a few states in the USA IIRC?) and have a front end design that doesn't have anywhere appropriate to fit one. A Camaro ZL1, perhaps?
There are no front number plate exemptions for imports that I am aware of (happy to be corrected), only the letter size and spacing exemptions laid out under Section 14a of the RTA. I run bike sized letters and spacing as laid out in Section 14a. If it were legal to do so I'd get rid of it as the car looks far better without it as the front bumper is not designed to have one on the GT.
They either get away with it or just pay the fine and carry on.
(a)does not have European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval; and
(b)is so constructed that the area available for the fixing of the registration plate precludes the display on the plate of a registration mark in conformity with the requirements of regulation 14.
The 'and' is crucial. Both (a) + (b) have to be satisfied for the exemption to apply.
In order to get away with no front plate the vehicle would have to be so constructed. There will be very few, if any, vehicles which will pass that test.
Btw, Section 14a is not the Road Traffic Act it's The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) (Amendment) Regulations 2002 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2687/regul...
Two of my cars are JDM imports and are squarely within the ambit of S14a.
I'm no traffic cop but if I was, I don't think I'd bother pulling over exotic supercars for no front plate. When you look at the front of most, 458, Aventador and so on, there isn't really anywhere to mount one properly.
On the flip side, when you see young lads with their slammed VAG hatchbacks and the front plate sitting on the dashboard, that deserves a ticket. And jail time.
On the flip side, when you see young lads with their slammed VAG hatchbacks and the front plate sitting on the dashboard, that deserves a ticket. And jail time.
Muddle238 said:
I'm no traffic cop but if I was, I don't think I'd bother pulling over exotic supercars for no front plate. When you look at the front of most, 458, Aventador and so on, there isn't really anywhere to mount one properly.
On the flip side, when you see young lads with their slammed VAG hatchbacks and the front plate sitting on the dashboard, that deserves a ticket. And jail time.
I don't understand why you are distinguishing between the two groups.On the flip side, when you see young lads with their slammed VAG hatchbacks and the front plate sitting on the dashboard, that deserves a ticket. And jail time.
herewego said:
I don't understand why you are distinguishing between the two groups.
Because the design of some supercars makes it difficult to find somewhere to mount a number plate. They aren't designed with number plates in mind. Whereas your yobbo in his slammed Golf will have deliberately removed the plate for no other reason that to fit in with a scene. It might just come from my hatred of dull German s
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