No front numberplate - legal?

No front numberplate - legal?

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Discussion

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
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Muddle238 said:
Because the design of some supercars makes it difficult to find somewhere to mount a number plate. They aren't designed with number plates in mind.
bks. EVERY new car sold in Europe is designed to have a front place.

battered

4,088 posts

146 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
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Even if it weren't, it's hardly beyond the wit of man to fabricate a bracket that attaches to some solid bit of metalwork and then presents a flat surface of the right size for a plate to be fitted.

Davidonly

1,080 posts

192 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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TooMany2cvs said:
Muddle238 said:
Because the design of some supercars makes it difficult to find somewhere to mount a number plate. They aren't designed with number plates in mind.
bks. EVERY new car sold in Europe is designed to have a front place.
Brand new (gorgeous) UK registered Aston V12 in London on Friday (Blackfriars way) with no place for front plate and non fitted or displayed. Was getting a parking ticket when I saw it.

helix402

7,832 posts

181 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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Like this?


TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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Davidonly said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Muddle238 said:
Because the design of some supercars makes it difficult to find somewhere to mount a number plate. They aren't designed with number plates in mind.
bks. EVERY new car sold in Europe is designed to have a front place.
Brand new (gorgeous) UK registered Aston V12 in London on Friday (Blackfriars way) with no place for front plate and non fitted or displayed. Was getting a parking ticket when I saw it.
It makes you wonder how it passed type approval, doesn't it?
helix402 said:
Like this?

Ah. Yes. JUST like that...

QBee

20,904 posts

143 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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The police have far better things to do than stop average otherwise-law-abiding motorists for having no front number plate. It simply isn't worth the admin time.

BUT, as an officer who stopped me once pointed out, when I had pulled out of a difficult side turning rather too close in front of him, he wouldn't have bothered to stop me just for that, but I also had a brake light out - two offences made it worth the stop. And then he checked my car over for more faults and checked my documents, but found nothing.
Apparently, after talking to reasonable and apologetic me for five minutes, it still wasn't worth his while to deal with the admin and book me for either offence.
But by committing two minor offences, I then took the risk he would find a load of other things that would be worth the admin time. Your choice to give them an excuse to pull you over.

Though us country dwellers do sometimes wonder why a farmer's 4x4 tractor, travelling at 25mph with no front number plate, and towing a trailer with no number plate and no lights, seems to be able to get away with holding up a queue of 100 cars for 15 miles on a twisty rural A road in the evening rush hour. furious But that's a whole other can of organic fertiliser.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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QBee said:
otherwise-law-abiding motorists
Ah, that ol' chestnut.

"I obey all the laws, except the ones that I don't think should apply to me - so I should be given a free pass on those"

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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TooMany2cvs said:
bks. EVERY new car sold in Europe is designed to have a front place.
Really? - So where was the front registration plate designed to go on the LaFerrari/LaFerrari Aperta?:




vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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croyde

22,701 posts

229 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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One of the work places I frequent use cameras looking at front plate in their car park to let you in.

Tempting as it is not to have a front plate, reversing up the ramps to the 3rd floor isn't worth the bother biggrin

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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vonhosen said:
Sorry Von, usually I would agree with what you post, but your picture shows that a front registration plate can be fitted to a LaFerrari - It doesn't show that the car was designed to have a front registration plate fitted from the start which was the statement made:

TooMany2cvs said:
bks. EVERY new car sold in Europe is designed to have a front place.
The original design made no allowance for a front plate to be fitted, hence why in the vast majority of pictures of the car it is shown with no plate fitted.

Ferrari have made an additional attachment for the plate to be fitted, but it is a compromise on the original design.

Added to that, the plate fitted to that LaFerrari would not be legal in the UK as it does not meet the UK regulations.

A UK regulation correct full size front plate on a LaFerrari would actually start to compromise the running of the car as it would deflect air away from the front intakes.



TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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4rephill said:
The original design made no allowance for a front plate to be fitted
More fool the stylist, then, along with whoever signed it off for production. Sorry, I was assuming competence on the part of the manufacturer.

4rephill said:
hence why in the vast majority of pictures of the car it is shown with no plate fitted.
No, that's because the vast majority are clearly off the public road, or driven by shallow nobends who think the law doesn't apply to them and can afford not to blink at the non-endorsable fine.

4rephill said:
Ferrari have made an additional attachment for the plate to be fitted, but it is a compromise on the original design.
Tough tits.

4rephill said:
Added to that, the plate fitted to that LaFerrari would not be legal in the UK as it does not meet the UK regulations.
Well, no, being an Italian plate...

Italian front plates are 360x110mm, and have been since the mid '80s. UK standard front plates are 520x110, same as almost all other European countries, but a shorter front plate would be legal so long as the (fewer character) registration had sufficient space around the characters.

4rephill said:
A UK regulation correct full size front plate on a LaFerrari would actually start to compromise the running of the car as it would deflect air away from the front intakes.
Form over function, then. A st bit of design, in other words - and not a legal get-out - although I struggle to imagine the circumstances in which such a minor change to cooling air intake is going to make any kind of significant difference in road conditions anywhere in Europe, let alone the UK.

This dealer plate would appear to be standard UK size.

InductionRoar

2,001 posts

131 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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TooMany2cvs said:
4rephill said:
The original design made no allowance for a front plate to be fitted
More fool the stylist, then, along with whoever signed it off for production.
rofl


Edited by InductionRoar on Sunday 22 January 11:16

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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InductionRoar said:
TooMany2cvs said:
4rephill said:
The original design made no allowance for a front plate to be fitted
More fool the stylist, then, along with whoever signed it off for production.
rofl
Well, we all know they weren't actually built to be used, so it's academic really... Just another investment product.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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TooMany2cvs said:
4rephill said:
The original design made no allowance for a front plate to be fitted
More fool the stylist, then, along with whoever signed it off for production. Sorry, I was assuming competence on the part of the manufacturer.

4rephill said:
hence why in the vast majority of pictures of the car it is shown with no plate fitted.
No, that's because the vast majority are clearly off the public road, or driven by shallow nobends who think the law doesn't apply to them and can afford not to blink at the non-endorsable fine.

4rephill said:
Ferrari have made an additional attachment for the plate to be fitted, but it is a compromise on the original design.
Tough tits.

4rephill said:
Added to that, the plate fitted to that LaFerrari would not be legal in the UK as it does not meet the UK regulations.
Well, no, being an Italian plate...

Italian front plates are 360x110mm, and have been since the mid '80s. UK standard front plates are 520x110, same as almost all other European countries, but a shorter front plate would be legal so long as the (fewer character) registration had sufficient space around the characters.

4rephill said:
A UK regulation correct full size front plate on a LaFerrari would actually start to compromise the running of the car as it would deflect air away from the front intakes.
Form over function, then. A st bit of design, in other words - and not a legal get-out - although I struggle to imagine the circumstances in which such a minor change to cooling air intake is going to make any kind of significant difference in road conditions anywhere in Europe, let alone the UK.

This dealer plate would appear to be standard UK size.
You can argue all you like that it's "tough s:censored" on Ferrari that they didn't design the LaFerrari to have a front registration plate fitted, and that it's their bad luck if the fitting of a plate compromises the car to any degree, but the fact is, your previous post.....:

TooMany2cvs said:
bks. EVERY new car sold in Europe is designed to have a front place.
.....is incorrect!

(BTW, The dealer plate that you've used to try to show that a plate could be fitted is actually only propped up in the intake opening, and restricting and diverting the air away from an intake on one of these cars is not a clever idea!)

Escapegoat

5,135 posts

134 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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It takes a special arrogance for a designer to draw up a car and just ignore a world-wide design/use requirement.

It's not just supercars, either. (Alfa, I'm looking at you.)

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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4rephill said:
You can argue all you like that it's "tough s:censored" on Ferrari that they didn't design the LaFerrari to have a front registration plate fitted, and that it's their bad luck if the fitting of a plate compromises the car to any degree, but the fact is, your previous post.....:

TooMany2cvs said:
bks. EVERY new car sold in Europe is designed to have a front place.
.....is incorrect!
Like I already said...

TooMany2cvs said:
Sorry, I was assuming competence on the part of the manufacturer.
But please feel free to show me how you'd get one registered in the UK without having proof that a full-size plate can be fitted at the front...

QBee

20,904 posts

143 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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NDA

21,485 posts

224 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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TooMany2cvs said:
But please feel free to show me how you'd get one registered in the UK without having proof that a full-size plate can be fitted at the front...
I've owned two cars that had no place for a full sized plate on the front - Murcielago and Ford GT. On the Ford my dealer fabricated a place for a smaller than regulation plate, on the Lambo I didn't bother. The Ford didn't take a full size plate on the rear either. Both cars were registered in the UK without having to show any proof.

Yipper

5,964 posts

89 months

Sunday 22nd January 2017
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rlw said:
Most mornings I walk past a Ferrari 458 that has no front plate. Hasn't ever had one either. A few months ago I saw traffic wardens and police swarming all over it and expected to see a front plate later, but no.

A neighbour has an MX3/Eunos, also without a front plate. Hasn't had one for months.

Am I missing something? In this day of front facing cameras, SPECS etc etc, HTF can these guys get away with it?
Removing the front numberplate is fairly common on the supercar scene. Done for aesthetic or fitting reasons. Some models look better without one, while others are a pain to fit. For example, the Aventador has a small, arrowhead bumper that looks bad with a plate fitted.

As others have said, the best option is to carry a spare, dirtied plate in the frunk and say it fell off or whatever. Plod tend to be fairly forgiving on missing front-plates for supercars, but may take a sterner line on something like an Evo chavrocket run on a shoestring (rightly or wrongly).