Lorry wreaks havoc in Ruislip, Police not interested?

Lorry wreaks havoc in Ruislip, Police not interested?

Author
Discussion

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Not even one of these trucks?


I've mentioned here before about where we used to live - there was a happy-clappy church just down the road. VERY popular on a Sunday evening, to the point that we actively used a different route home, because the parking was just ridiculous. One weekend, one of the congregation must have really offended their mate upstairs, because their car was smote in a particularly old-testament fashion.

It took the fire brigade 45 minutes of manually bouncing parked cars out of the way to get the last couple of hundred metres.
My house is an end terrace that has a blind hairpin bend outside of it where cars park on both sides of the road, on the pavements preventing pedestrians using either path (they have to walk in the road risking getting run down!), and narrowing the road to the point where you can just about squeeze a transit van through if you line it up carefully and drive very slowly.

I've tried complaining to the local council who's response was basically: "There isn't much room for parking on that road so we make an allowance for that! (i.e: "We can't be arsed to do anything about it!").

Last Thursday I was woken at 2.15am in the morning by the sound of a siren outside the house (Fcensoredk Me those sirens are loud! eek ). I woke up to blue flashing lights bouncing off all the buildings and cars around, people shouting and running up and down the road, and then there was a hammering at My front door.

I threw a dressing gown on, raced downstairs and opened the front door in the freezing cold to find a fireman on My doorstep asking if My car was one of those parked on the bend. I told him I had off-road parking round the back, so then he asked if I knew where any of the owners of the cars parked on the bend lived as they couldn't get their engines through to deal with a house fire. I told him that a lot of them belonged to students, to which he replied: "That's why we can't trace any bloody addresses for them then!"

A couple of people came out and started to move their cars, but there were still around 10 cars sat in the way. The sirens went back on several times to wake the entire neighbourhood up again, a couple of addresses were found and so the firemen went running up the road to wake the owners up, but they still couldn't get through.

After 20 minutes they finally managed to squeeze through to get to the house fire somewhere further down the road (smashing the door mirror off one car still parked on the bend in the process).

The next morning a number of cars had fire brigade leaflets left on their windscreens to inform the owners that their cars had delayed them from getting to an emergency, possibly putting lives at risk, and the following evening, the same cars had blatantly been moved in the daytime, had the leaflets removed, and had then been parked back on the hairpin bend once again, blocking it up again! rolleyes


Those people who are posting to say: "But this wasn't a fire engine trying to get through, it was just an ordinary truck!" are missing the point!

The next time it could be a fire engine trying to get down that road, and it will be delayed in getting to an emergency situation in the exact same way that this truck was delayed (in fact, chances are it will be delayed worse than this truck as the guys who drive the fire engines don't tend to just smash their way past cars).

Of course, in this day and age, people don't give a scensoredt whether or not emergency vehicles can get through to an emergency or not - It's far more important that they can park within 50 feet of their front door!

There may come a day though, that they need the fire brigade to come and save their house, or an ambulance to come and save the live of a loved one, and it will be their own stupid, inconsiderate parking that will be the reason it doesn't happen!





Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
I used to live in a Kent village, Hextable, that had no pub, the nearest being along a narrow country lane just wide enough for two cars to pass one another in opposite directions.

The pub had a large car park but for some reason some drivers preferred to park in the lane, and some parked so that their passengers could disembark.

One evening when driving along the lane I heard two tones and saw the sky lit up blue. I pulled into a farm track and was passed by a pump and pump escape, going steadily. I followed. As they got to the pub they slowed and both went through a gap where cars were parked both sides. Wing mirrors, door handles and trim from the cars was removed and there was considerable damage to bodywork. In my headlights it looked like carnage.

Discretion and valour, the former coming out on top, I reversed and took an alternative route home.

The local police had a number of car owners report the matter to them. The fire brigade drivers said they thought they'd damaged cars but as the report was 'persons trapped' they felt their duty overcame the legal obligations to stop. The police decided not to investigate and I was told I did not see anything. (I knew and got on well with the local police. I spoke to a sergeant who'd been at the local station for 15 years. A real old style copper. Lovely bloke, well known all around.)

The fire brigade made percentage offers for the damage they caused.

The police paid particular attention to parking in the lane for some time and the local bobby was denied his nightly pint.


jazzybee

3,056 posts

248 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
I use that road (North Drive in Ruislip) frequently. Traffic on the main High Street backs up heavily on to the approach road causing long delays. Nipping up North Drive can save 2-3 mins traffic. However, it is a narrow road, and being close to the high street and tube station with no parking restrictions, people park on both sides on the street, and with a little kink in the road, the gap narrows to where you have to really squeeze through in my car... I've often thought they need to put a short single yellow line at that narrowest point. Seeing those images is quite shocking. I am surprised he would have damaged that many cars, 2 or 4 yes, if he really got stuck, but that many would have to be on purpose or out of anger.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
I watched a truck do exactly the same thing about a year ago in Keswick, except the damage and the number of cars was far more.

It was a Sunlight Laundry truck delivering to the many hotels and B&B's in the narrow streets, and I watched him start and drive down a street lined with cars on both sides (legally parked) and it was only just wide enough for a car to safely pass through, but he went for it anyway.

It was honestly like nothing I have seen before. He tore the sides out of cars on both sides for probably 100 metres or more. At first I thought that he hadn't reaslised the damage he was causing as it was a big truck, so I ran along the pavement and got his attention as he was inching along and shouted at him. He wound the window down and screamed a load of abuse along the lines of it not being his fault, and he couldn't reverse so would just have to keep going.

And keep going he did... all the way to the end.

Once out the other side, he got out looking very annoyed, had a quick look at the damage to his truck (not much), had a look around to see if there were many people watching him (there wasn't) and just drove off.

I took photos of him as he caused the damage, but couldn't leave notes on the cars as I didn't have any paper or pens and there were loads of damaged cars.

I emailed the Sunlight office and attached a photo of the carnage, and all I got back was a "we will look into it" sort of reply.

heebeegeetee

28,591 posts

247 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
NinjaPower said:
I watched a truck do exactly the same thing about a year ago in Keswick, except the damage and the number of cars was far more.

It was a Sunlight Laundry truck delivering to the many hotels and B&B's in the narrow streets, and I watched him start and drive down a street lined with cars on both sides (legally parked)
I can't see how they're legally parked if they're causing an obstruction and preventing people from going about their lawful business.

Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
NinjaPower said:
I watched a truck do exactly the same thing about a year ago in Keswick, except the damage and the number of cars was far more.

It was a Sunlight Laundry truck delivering to the many hotels and B&B's in the narrow streets, and I watched him start and drive down a street lined with cars on both sides (legally parked)
I can't see how they're legally parked if they're causing an obstruction and preventing people from going about their lawful business.
No parking restrictions so can park. How do you determine legally parked.

IF a truck can't get through parked cats, he definitely shouldn't bull doze them out of his way, that isn't legal is it?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Vipers said:
heebeegeetee said:
NinjaPower said:
I watched a truck do exactly the same thing about a year ago in Keswick, except the damage and the number of cars was far more.

It was a Sunlight Laundry truck delivering to the many hotels and B&B's in the narrow streets, and I watched him start and drive down a street lined with cars on both sides (legally parked)
I can't see how they're legally parked if they're causing an obstruction and preventing people from going about their lawful business.
No parking restrictions so can park.
Providing everything else is legal.

Vipers said:
How do you determine legally parked.
Complying with all applicable legislation. Including s103, Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regul...
The law said:
103 - No person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
Vipers said:
IF a truck can't get through parked cats, he definitely shouldn't bull doze them out of his way, that isn't legal is it?
What did your mother tell you about the exchange rate for wrongs and rights?

heebeegeetee

28,591 posts

247 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Vipers said:
No parking restrictions so can park. How do you determine legally parked.
You can't park if you're causing an obstruction, and if other normal road users can't get by then there has to be an obstruction.

By normal road users I would include refuse wagons, removals vans, loft insulation trucks perhaps, recovery vehicles, fire engines, trucks needed by the utilities etc.


Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
heebeegeetee said:
Vipers said:
No parking restrictions so can park. How do you determine legally parked.
You can't park if you're causing an obstruction, and if other normal road users can't get by then there has to be an obstruction.

By normal road users I would include refuse wagons, removals vans, loft insulation trucks perhaps, recovery vehicles, fire engines, trucks needed by the utilities etc.
Probably flogging a dead horse, but I understand what your saying, but "Normal road users", see my picture, I wouldn't expect an artic to drive ,this road near me unless he is lost. Cars can pass easily, as do vans. On refuge days they ensure the road is clear.

With the laundry truck saga, assuming it doesn't happen every week, seems like it could be a new driver, or someone taking a short cut through a road which isnt usually used by trucks.

As far as insulation trucks, when I book a gas engineer they always ask about road access and parking, so if you ordered a bunch of insulation why doesn't the supplier ask the same questions, or better still why doesn't the purchaser say "By the way the road has cars either side so you won't get a big truck down it".

I haven't looked through the regs but does it define a minimum with between cars parked. At the end of the day, the average car driver will park if there are no restrictions and leaves sufficient room for another car/van to pass.

If the intention is for each and every road in the UK to be accessible by antics, etc, why not put DYL's down, or signage.

Do you consider a snow plough a normal road user, horses for courses I think.


TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Vipers said:
Probably flogging a dead horse, but I understand what your saying, but "Normal road users", see my picture, I wouldn't expect an artic to drive ,this road near me unless he is lost. Cars can pass easily, as do vans. On refuge days they ensure the road is clear.
The very fact that people realise that the bin wagon can't normally get through, so move their cars on bin day, says everything.

Let's hope any house fires only happen on bin day, eh?

Vipers said:
when I book a gas engineer they always ask about road access and parking, so if you ordered a bunch of insulation why doesn't the supplier ask the same questions
Here's a clue: Is the gas man more or less likely to get a parking ticket while he's parked there fixing your boiler, than a delivery truck which is unloading or a fire engine which is putting your house out?

vonhosen

40,198 posts

216 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Vipers said:
I haven't looked through the regs but does it define a minimum with between cars parked. At the end of the day, the average car driver will park if there are no restrictions and leaves sufficient room for another car/van to pass.

If the intention is for each and every road in the UK to be accessible by antics, etc, why not put DYL's down, or signage.

Do you consider a snow plough a normal road user, horses for courses I think.
With respect to the law roads are for passage not parking (save where marking specifically allow for parking such as marked bays).
Any vehicle parked which reduces the available road width (even if traffic can still pass) is an obstruction, in so much that it has reduced the available road for passage which is it's purpose.
However obstruction is not itself an offence, for it to be an offence it has to be either an unnecessary obstruction (RV (Con & Use) Regs), or a wilful obstruction (HA).

Trevatanus

Original Poster:

11,109 posts

149 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Slightly off topic, but related.
I live in a block of flat that is only accessible via public road, with houses on both sides.
Parking is often a problem, with staggered on either side, I often have to slow right down to get through in the MG.
I reported the issue to the council who said that they would investigate, which they duly did, and went through the motions of getting the relevant permissions to impose waiting restrictions. This was decided after an official came to site to carry out inspections.
He agreed, and said that the final stage was for it to be voted on by a local councillor.
The meeting went ahead, a single councillor objected, on the grounds that it would simply "move the problem elsewhere"
Strangely, he lived two streets away.

Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
The law said:
103 - No person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
As far as I know, only a judge can interpreter what the law means, not always as straight as it looks.

So it seems many thousands of roads in the U.K., whilst being used for parking, doesn't comply with.............

Oh well. Just hope the truck driver is hung out to dry. Meanwhile people, be careful where you park.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Vipers said:
TooMany2cvs said:
The law said:
103 - No person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
As far as I know, only a judge can interpreter what the law means, not always as straight as it looks.
A police officer can give a ticket, based on their interpretation. If the person who gets the ticket disagrees, they can take it to court. And if there's insufficient space left to get a larger vehicle through, then it's going to be hard to argue against that ticket.

Vipers said:
So it seems many thousands of roads in the U.K., whilst being used for parking, doesn't comply with...
Yup. There's many thousands of brain-dead muppets not thinking about where they dump their cars, all over the country. Is this news?

Vipers said:
Meanwhile people, be careful where you park.
Always a good plan.

Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Vipers said:
TooMany2cvs said:
The law said:
103 - No person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road.
As far as I know, only a judge can interpreter what the law means, not always as straight as it looks.
A police officer can give a ticket, based on their interpretation. If the person who gets the ticket disagrees, they can take it to court. And if there's insufficient space left to get a larger vehicle through, then it's going to be hard to argue against that ticket
Spot on, a judge will interpret. It still remains how to define a "larger vehicle". Do urban back street parkers have to leave sufficient space for artics and snow ploughs to pass, or enough for vehicles which normally use the road, that was my point.

You said "A police officer can give a ticket, based on their interpretation", which as we all know isn't always right.

Anyway agree with most of your points. Personally I have never parked where I shouldn't, and fully support those who choose to park where they shouldn't get penilised for it.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Vipers said:
Spot on, a judge will interpret. It still remains how to define a "larger vehicle". Do urban back street parkers have to leave sufficient space for artics and snow ploughs to pass, or enough for vehicles which normally use the road, that was my point.
"Normally"? Or "can be reasonably expected to"?

Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Vipers said:
Spot on, a judge will interpret. It still remains how to define a "larger vehicle". Do urban back street parkers have to leave sufficient space for artics and snow ploughs to pass, or enough for vehicles which normally use the road, that was my point.
"Normally"? Or "can be reasonably expected to"?
Haven't any idea.

Pothole

34,367 posts

281 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Vipers said:
Pothole said:
Dullard.
Who or what is Dullard.
You is.

Vipers

32,799 posts

227 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Pothole said:
Vipers said:
Pothole said:
Dullard.
Who or what is Dullard.
You is.
Didn't know you and I were so alike, thank you for the compliment. But we are digressing from the thread.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
quotequote all
Vipers said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Vipers said:
Spot on, a judge will interpret. It still remains how to define a "larger vehicle". Do urban back street parkers have to leave sufficient space for artics and snow ploughs to pass, or enough for vehicles which normally use the road, that was my point.
"Normally"? Or "can be reasonably expected to"?
Haven't any idea.
It's kinda the whole point of this debate, though, isn't it?

A truck might not normally go down a given road except for once a week on a known day. But can you reasonably expect one to need to? Yes, absolutely...