Parking - the private enforcers got me!

Parking - the private enforcers got me!

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Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
They got me bang to rights! Stopped outside JD Sports in a retail park for 4 mins as my lad went in to collect his 'xmas money' online order but got a Parking Charge Notice for £100.

Now I think I will give JD a call to see if they can help waive it but I was 100% on double yellows though - although obstructing nothing and no one. Squeezing into a snug bay with an easily dingable 5.1 m x 2.2m land yacht seemed a poor choice for a quick in/out order pickup wink

Just seems a bit harsh as there is no 'observation time' or any small leeway/grace period as with normal parking tickets - just an immediate ticket.

So, take it like a man that has done wrong or have a wriggle as they are being very hardball?

KrazyIvan

4,341 posts

174 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
Now I think I will give JD a call to see if they can help waive it but I was 100% on double yellows though - although obstructing nothing and no one. Squeezing into a snug bay with an easily dingable 5.1 m x 2.2m land yacht seemed a poor choice for a quick in/out order pickup wink
Sorry to sound harsh, but stop winging and pay the fine, you took a risk and lost. By your own admission you could have parked up but chose not to. I doubt JD would be interested, you'd be better of call the parking company and see if they will reduce the fine.

The size of your car is irrelevant, the time you were parked might be you only angle for leeway.

cbmotorsport

3,065 posts

117 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Private enforcers, private land?

Screw it up and chuck it in the bin.

MikeGoodwin

3,323 posts

116 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Both of you are wrong. Why would you pay £60 or £100 fk that get a grip. fking nutters some of you lot. The whole private parking firm thing is a scam.

Also dont screw it up/ignore. Be aware Parking Eye are very aggressive and take people to court all the time for ignoring. - some firms are more relaxed and never get as far as court but will still send you fake debt collection letters with big red lettering asking for £140.

Who issued the ticket and are they under the BPA or IPC ?

All the info you need is in the stickys over at MSE parking fine forums.

Edited by MikeGoodwin on Thursday 19th January 12:34

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Doc says IPC Members on reverse:


TheBALDpuma

5,842 posts

167 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
I always thought you could wait on double yellows but not park - turns out I'm wrong.

Bit harsh OP but I'm not sure there is much you'll be able to do! No harm in asking though; unless it waives a cheaper payment option or similar.

speedking31

3,543 posts

135 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
They're not real double yellow lines as they're on private property. The signage will say, "park only in marked bays", that's the bit you've contravened. Observation time applies out in the real world.

surveyor_101

5,069 posts

178 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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DON'T PAY! half the time they don't have the correct contract with the land owner.


Make an appeal to new gen parking (never heard of them)

The send a letter to the landowner along these lines> Needs to a IPC letter not BPA.

State you never parked and just waited in the car engine running.




Edited by surveyor_101 on Thursday 19th January 13:23

havoc

29,920 posts

234 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
If you were in the car with the engine running you were waiting not parked - that IS an important distinction under the RTA. And I think waiting IS permitted on double yellows...but there are limits/criteria/restrictions around that...worth googling/getting advice.

4 mins may be pushing it a little ref. 'waiting', but it's probably arguable.

The issue here is what laws apply - traffic regs almost certainly will as it's a public space (even though private land), so the question then is which takes precedence - the private contractor's 'rules', or RTA.

Dixy

2,913 posts

204 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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The yellow lines are a red herring, its private land. You were not parked you were waiting and ther fore did not breach the only park in marked bays.

MikeGoodwin

3,323 posts

116 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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Unlucky with it being IPC.

Basically you cant win, but you should appeal anyway. I would also have a word with JD as they might be able to help but somehow doubt they own the land their shop is on. The landowner may well get a cut of what the parking firm take, often people get the tickets overturned speaking to the landowner or shop.

BPA have POPLA which were an independent appeals service and relatively easy to have ticket overturned yourself.

IPC have the IAS, ironic considering the IPC was setup by private firm operators fed up with how many tickets POPLA were overturning. Its a kangraoo court. You appeal, then the people who have it in their own interests look at your case and dismiss it regardless oh how solid your claim is. Its actual madness that its been allowed to happen.

I would seek clarification over on MSE parking fine forums or PEPIPOO forums for your own sanity, but they will just want to know if its an IPC or BPA operator and tell you the same thing (what you did to get the ticket is irrelevant, btw). Dont pay it ffs.

herewego

8,814 posts

212 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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You can tell them that if necessary you'll make a POPLA appeal based on the 10 minute grace period that they have to give. Hacks me off when people park/wait whatever on double yellows outside the shop door that are specifically there to tell people to keep that area clear. I mean why do they think the lines are there? Are the lines there to keep the riff raff away so that they can park? I've got a massive car so I'll need to park on the double yellows, really?

brrapp

3,701 posts

161 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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I'm not an expert, but I didn't think they could pursue the owner or registered keeper of a car, only the driver. If they don't know who the driver was, I don't think the owner has any responsibility to tell them. So don't tell them your name Pike.

SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
brrapp said:
I'm not an expert, but I didn't think they could pursue the owner or registered keeper of a car, only the driver.
Not any more.

vxr8mate

1,654 posts

188 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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Just say the engine overheated and lost power, your kid popped in to the shop to get ask if someone could help, but some minutes later you managed to get it started again and thought it best to head off to the garage.

silverfoxcc

7,683 posts

144 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
DONT CONTACT the issuers of that invoice until you have been onto pepipoo.com and let them have the once over.
ALSO NEVER NEVER NEVER say that you were the driver, ALWAYS say the driver did this the driver did not see that.

These Guys are good, in one thread they are taking on an Airport Authority nd the vermn that are issuing these wrongful tickets

Put it another wsy

Get onto pepipoo and hopefully save some money


OR



Assit these buggers continuance by paying them

Its up to you

Other righteous buggers may say otherwise

S11Steve

6,374 posts

183 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
I've successfully argued a number times at POPLA that stopping on private double yellows whilst remaining in the vehicle does not constitute parking, therefore POFA 2012 can not be applied, therefore no keeper liability can be invoked. Much easier when you represent a Ltd company though.

As above, it's IPC so appeals are akin to "my Dad's bigger than your Dad" arguments, however I still throw in a generic template appeal, and plan to use their comical rejections as part of any defence in court.
So far I've had 9 claims from the IPC and their cronies, 7 of them of were discontinued prior to hearing, I'm still waiting the other 2 but suspect they will be the same.

Generic appeal should question;
The validity of their signage - is it enough to form a contract? Invariably the answer is no.
Landowner Authority - do they have a proven trail of authority from the landowner to bring the claim? 99 out of 100 will be no.
Compliance with POFA 2012 - I've yet to receive a Notice to Owner that is 100% compliant from any parking company. No POFA - No keeper liability.

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Ken. I'm also South Wales. I've ignored a speculative invoice from NGPM about a year ago and aside from the usual letters of escalation that one receives from these types it's all gone quiet.

If I were you I'd file it in the special basket.

S11Steve

6,374 posts

183 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
Ken. I'm also South Wales. I've ignored a speculative invoice from NGPM about a year ago and aside from the usual letters of escalation that one received from these types it's all gone quiet.

If I were you I'd file it in the special basket.
I'm always inclined to do the same, however as I represent my employers and customers, I do have to go through the motions. It also gives slightly higher ground in the event it ends up in from a District Judge.

NGPM are taking more to court since they have joined the IPC, so may want to consider your options a bit more closely - http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/New_Generation_Park...


Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
S11Steve said:
I've successfully argued a number times at POPLA that stopping on private double yellows whilst remaining in the vehicle does not constitute parking, therefore POFA 2012 can not be applied, therefore no keeper liability can be invoked.
Interesting - is that why their 'offence' description is vaguely worded - 'On yellow lines'. They don't want to stay 'stopped' or 'parked'?

I have to say that I may not have the time/will to fight it, and I did do wrong, but in my normal world experience it would have been a tap on the glass 'oi - shift it mate' or at least a few reasonable few minutes grace. I'll need convincing!