Parking - the private enforcers got me!

[brrapp]

I've just had a look at your ticket, it's a 'notice to owner' not a 'notice to driver' which is what should be put on to the car. 'A notice to owner' shouldn't be issued till 28 days after the date of the alleged incident so this one has been wrongly issued.

[SS2.]

brrapp said:

I've just had a look at your ticket, it's a 'notice to owner' not a 'notice to driver' which is what should be put on to the car. 'A notice to owner' shouldn't be issued till 28 days after the date of the alleged incident so this one has been wrongly issued.

Isn't that only after a Notice to Driver had been issued previously ? I don't think one was in this case.

[S11Steve]

If it was a windscreen ticket, then the Notice to Owner must be issued after 28 days and before 56 days. Outside of this, the keeper can not be held liable.
If it was a camera detection, then they have to issue the NtO within 14 days.

The only camera detected double line tickets I see are for Liverpool or Doncaster Airport, and that's a whole different kettle of scam!

I can also tell you that the NtO you posted up there is not sufficient to hold the keeper liable - Notice that there is no reference to POFA2012, there is no detail of the maximum costs they wish to seek, no details of the creditor...

They would then likely quote Eliot v Loake, which is a criminal case and bears no relation to private parking cases.

Shysters - the lot of them.

Edited by S11Steve on Thursday 19th January 17:07

[Ken Figenus]

Thanks guys - my resolve is strengthening. Just wouldn't happen this way in the non 'private' parking enforcement world would it - and they are also out for every penny they can get. All feels a bit feudal - maybe the landless serf will rise up !

There was no ticket on the car - well I would have spotted it being sat inside with the engine running and Spotify streaming! I called JD Sports and they have never heard of anyone being done and didn't know who the managing agent was and had never heard of the parking charge company. I suspect this may be a McDonalds thing? I was closer to McD than JD - but the parking doesn't SEEM specific to McD its a big open retail area...

Here's the rear of the doc:



Again I know I did cross a little line here but no loss or inconvenience or taking the p was caused - if it was the std Cardiff £25 parking fine (yes - no wonder its top ten on the 'where to live' table Laandaners ) then no bother, but these 'our rules' guys want a lot more than that. A polyester football top more! Hmmm

[stevensdrs]

Just ignore it and the 3 or 4 threatening letters you will get from their sister debt collecting firm.
You did not contravene any of their terms that will hold up in court. They have suffered no financial loss from you waiting on their false double yellow lines. These companies only exist because Joe Public is weak and pays their ridiculous scamming invoices.

[Register1]

brrapp said:

I'm not an expert, but I didn't think they could pursue the owner or registered keeper of a car, only the driver. If they don't know who the driver was, I don't think the owner has any responsibility to tell them. So don't tell them your name Pike.

Correct.

And never reveal who the driver was.
Go to Pepipoo.

Loads of good advice

R1

[Ken Figenus]

Seriously incorrect I'm afraid.

[Cyberprog]

Don't screw it up and bin it - this is poor advice!

Write back to them and appeal as you were not parked. They have suffered no loss by you waiting on the lines for 4 mins and cannot prove any loss as a result. Threaten them with a Data Protection Act breach for improperly obtaining your personal details from the DVLA, as they had no grounds to do so as you were not parked.

They will reject your appeal, so you should next appeal to the IPC, who will reject that. Eventually they may take you to court, at which point you counterclaim for £250 for the DPA breach.

See the parking prankster's blog for more info

[surveyor_101]

Don't ignore since beavis people are being taken to court who ignore.

[akirk]

I think you are on your own here - that front page clearly says you are not to take advice from internet forums

[S11Steve]

akirk said:

I think you are on your own here - that front page clearly says you are not to take advice from internet forums

That's a damage limitation exercise from the parking sharks. They have had a few wins over defended cases, but not many. So few that they make a big noise about it when they do.

Sometimes, even when the defendant does not seek advice off internet forums, the more unscrupulous operators still pretend that they did. Even if the defendant probably didn't exist, and the whole claim is more than likely a publicity stunt just for press coverage. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14331874.Driver...

Combined Parking Solutions is owned by Mike/Michael Perkins. He likes to google himself. He's that kind of guy.
Aren't you Mike?

[akirk]

S11Steve said:

akirk said:

I think you are on your own here - that front page clearly says you are not to take advice from internet forums

That's a damage limitation exercise from the parking sharks. They have had a few wins over defended cases, but not many. So few that they make a big noise about it when they do.

Sometimes, even when the defendant does not seek advice off internet forums, the more unscrupulous operators still pretend that they did. Even if the defendant probably didn't exist, and the whole claim is more than likely a publicity stunt just for press coverage. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14331874.Driver...

Combined Parking Solutions is owned by Mike/Michael Perkins. He likes to google himself. He's that kind of guy.
Aren't you Mike?

sorry, not Mike - the clue is in the username
I was amused that they obviously fear the internet forums enough to try and put people off - makes it look very amateur, almost like: "here is a fine, and don't tell your daddy about it, we don't want to be beaten up"

[pork911]

MikeGoodwin said:

Both of you are wrong. Why would you pay £60 or £100 fk that get a grip. fking nutters some of you lot. The whole private parking firm thing is a scam.

Also dont screw it up/ignore. Be aware Parking Eye are very aggressive and take people to court all the time for ignoring. - some firms are more relaxed and never get as far as court but will still send you fake debt collection letters with big red lettering asking for £140.

Who issued the ticket and are they under the BPA or IPC ?

All the info you need is in the stickys over at MSE parking fine forums.

Edited by MikeGoodwin on Thursday 19th January 12:34

Please post your address so we can all have free parking when in your town

[surveyor_101]

akirk said:

I think you are on your own here - that front page clearly says you are not to take advice from internet forums

All I can say about that is I have got close to a dozen tickets cancelled using advice from internet forums!

Money Saving Expert and Pepipoo ONLY!

Some forums push people to go POPLA appeals as they like wining and I have beaten Parking Eye at POPLA. However it is a bit time consuming defending the turd that PE submit and the bluff all the way to appeals, the fastest and easiest way to get them is go for the landowner or retailer and get them to cancel them!

Appealing to IPC I am told is a waste of time I am told.

You must appeal to them parking company in writing and keep a record.

Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 20th January 13:14

Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 20th January 13:15

Edited by surveyor_101 on Friday 20th January 13:16

[Mrr T]

Ken Figenus said:

Thanks guys - my resolve is strengthening. Just wouldn't happen this way in the non 'private' parking enforcement world would it - and they are also out for every penny they can get. All feels a bit feudal - maybe the landless serf will rise up !

There was no ticket on the car - well I would have spotted it being sat inside with the engine running and Spotify streaming! I called JD Sports and they have never heard of anyone being done and didn't know who the managing agent was and had never heard of the parking charge company. I suspect this may be a McDonalds thing? I was closer to McD than JD - but the parking doesn't SEEM specific to McD its a big open retail area...

Here's the rear of the doc:



Again I know I did cross a little line here but no loss or inconvenience or taking the p was caused - if it was the std Cardiff £25 parking fine (yes - no wonder its top ten on the 'where to live' table Laandaners ) then no bother, but these 'our rules' guys want a lot more than that. A polyester football top more! Hmmm

It was worth contacting JD but not surprised they could not help. Most retain parks are owned by large investors who then contract day to day management to a management company who then employ the parking company. JD and MD will just be tenants.

You now have a choice:
1. Pay up and it all goes away.
2. Fight and likely win, you may even get a £250 bonus. However, be aware fighting takes some work and commitment.

What you must NEVER do is ignore.

As other have said look at MSE, PePiPoo, and PP. The only problem with the sites are there are a number of different themes to this type of bill so you will need to do some reading to find cases such as yours.

I am trying to work on a pocket guide I can post to this type of question, hopefully will finished this weekend.

[Red Devil]

Mrr T said:

I am trying to work on a pocket guide I can post to this type of question, hopefully will finished this weekend.

By all means if you wish, but why reinvent the wheel? It's all been done before and the answers can be found elsewhere. Viz:

- MSE
- PePiPoo
- Parking Prankster
- BMPA

Plus if you need a Lay Rep/McKenzie Friend in court.*

- Private Parking Appeals

 * n.b. Most High Street solicitors don't have a clue about parking cases.
    And some judges are a bit flaky too although many are wising up to the tricks PPCs like to play.

[Puggit]

surveyor_101 said:

Some forums push people to go POPLA appeals as they like wining and I have beaten Parking Eye at POPLA. However it is a bit time consuming defending the turd that PE submit and the bluff all the way to appeals, the fastest and easiest way to get them is go for the landowner or retailer and get them to cancel them!

Last time I appealed (and won, of course), appealing to POPLA cost the parking firm something like £26 - whether you win or lose. So if it's still the same, everyone should appeal, it costs the parking sharks money.

[jhiker]

Another useful resource here..
http://legalbeagles.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?3...
Best of luck.

[S11Steve]

Puggit said:

Last time I appealed (and won, of course), appealing to POPLA cost the parking firm something like £26 - whether you win or lose. So if it's still the same, everyone should appeal, it costs the parking sharks money.

There is a growing call for people to counterclaim when appeals are upheld - a few people have been awarded £250 ish in damages for data-protection breaches for the parking company obtaining their details from the DVLA.

I love the idea of this and could potentially earn my company a small fortune, however I don't think it applies to Ltd companies.

[Red Devil]

Puggit said:

surveyor_101 said:

Some forums push people to go POPLA appeals as they like wining and I have beaten Parking Eye at POPLA. However it is a bit time consuming defending the turd that PE submit and the bluff all the way to appeals, the fastest and easiest way to get them is go for the landowner or retailer and get them to cancel them!

Last time I appealed (and won, of course), appealing to POPLA cost the parking firm something like £26 - whether you win or lose. So if it's still the same, everyone should appeal, it costs the parking sharks money.

POPLA won't help the OP though as the PPC involved belongs to the other ATA (IPC). There is a school of thought that appealing to the IAS is pointless as it is not properly independent and rarely finds for the motorist. YMMV. Furthermore a judge who may be unaware of the potential conflict of interest might place too much stock on losing there.