Mobile phone use crackdown

[nipsips]

Its not dangerous because its remote.

If you had a blind passenger would you be forbidden from talking to them?

I'll carry on driving safely as I have done for many many years and you carry on doing the same and we will all live happily around each other.

[rambo19]

The main problem is peoples utter addiction to their phones, not just in the car, but in general.
Cinema/pub/restaurant/shop etc etc.

The longest journey I undertake on a regular basis is when I visit my mum, southend to hampshire.
It takes about 3 hours.
I never ever use or look at my phone whilst driving, so lets say my phone rings just as I am leaving my house, when I stop for a pee/coffee, after about 90 minutes driving, I will check my phone then.
I just wished people would leave the bloody phone alone whilst driving.

[BeastMaster]

nonsequitur said:

Vipers said:

nipsips said:

I use my phone to talk a lot while driving. I have apple car play in the car so its all done through the dash. Perfectly 100% legal - and I don't see it as a distraction. I don't text/snap/facebook or anything else as that means touching the phone. I can call anyone without even looking at the display using Siri. To be honest its less of a distraction than adjusting the temperature on my climate control.

A competent driver knows when they need to concentrate, and stops talking and concentrates on the road regardless of whether they are talking to a passenger or on the phone. If you go quiet and stop talking you can generally explain within a few seconds why you stop talking.

A competent driver also knows there own abilities and is safe to decide when for example to have one hand on the wheel. The way some of you go on the car should have sensors to check whether you have two hands on the wheel and that your eyes are welded to the road ahead - if your not a big boxing glove should come out of the steering wheel and box you on the nose

Just for clarity I do many thousands of miles across England/France/Belgium/Germany incident free with minimal near misses etc before any of you bang on about my driving and that I'm a danger for daring to have a conversation whilst driving.

All you say makes sense.

Sorry, non sense.

Conducting any remote telephone conversation, however it is configured, which could involve minute details, planning, recall and comprehensive calculations and all when driving, is just plain crazy.
To repeat, 200 phone while driving fatalities and serious injury in 2016.

Edited by nonsequitur on Sunday 5th February 18:19

Edited by nonsequitur on Sunday 5th February 18:20

Where does he say he is making these detailed, planning and comprehensive calculations. A competent driver is never going to get into this type of conversation and will agree a call back time with the caller to discuss more complex issue.

If I was not able to take calls in my car I would be bombarded with emails, which would cause me far more stress while driving knowing a work build up was happening while behind the wheel, which a simple phone call could clarify or explain.

I believe the authorities are not concerned so much about the legal use of phones in cars which after all is no different to having a discussion with your business partner as a passenger, but the bigger picture that in general people do not want to talk to each other anymore but use email and other media to communicate which is a big no while driving, and if the phone is in a holder or your workcase impossible.

Everyone these days sees driving as a rite, but not many see it as a responsibility to be behind the wheel of nearly 2 tons of metal travelling at speed. Being a responsible driver is deferring that difficult phone call, or not being distracted by your passenger and driving as reasonably safe as possible and if we are honest we should all know the boundaries which are acceptable or are not fit to drive.

[Vipers]

nonsequitur said:

Conducting any remote telephone conversation, however it is configured, which could involve minute details, planning, recall and comprehensive calculations and all when driving, is just plain crazy.

To repeat, 200 phone while driving fatalities and serious injury in 2016.

Out of interest do these incidents show those on hands free, and those on hand held?

[helix402]

Not sure 2016 figures have been published yet, I can't find them anyway. I'm not sure that 200 death figure is correct, looking at the other years.



Here's some discussion:


https://hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2016-12-15/deb...

And some more:

Edited by helix402 on Sunday 5th February 21:18

Edited by helix402 on Sunday 5th February 21:20

Edited by helix402 on Sunday 5th February 22:08

[Vipers]

Googling, some accidents were not caused by using a hands free, but some texting.

Can't find any stats on incidents using hands free, maybe they bunch all accidents involving phones together.

[helix402]

Agreed, there seems to be no break down in accidents with/without handsfree. Most near misses I see seem to be those texting/updating their Facebook page rather than actually talking.

[herewego]

helix402 said:

Not sure 2016 figures have been published yet, I can't find them anyway. I'm not sure that 200 death figure is correct, looking at the other years.

I see 200 KSIs quoted not 200 deaths.

[SS2.]

herewego said:

helix402 said:

Not sure 2016 figures have been published yet, I can't find them anyway. I'm not sure that 200 death figure is correct, looking at the other years.

I see 200 KSIs quoted not 200 deaths.

He has a point, though.

The official KSI figures have been pretty static for the past 5 years. I'd have expected an abrupt increase of some 100% in 2016 alone to have been broadcast from the highest rooftops by those parties intent on stigmatising all phone use when behind the wheel to the same level of social unacceptability as drink-driving.

FWIW, the published figures where mobile phone use was recorded as a contributory factor:

2011 - 22 killed, 55 seriously injured
2012 - 17 killed, 67 seriously injured
2013 - 22 killed, 73 seriously injured
2014 - 21 killed, 84 seriously injured
2015 - 22 killed, 75 seriously injured

[Vipers]

SS2. said:

herewego said:

helix402 said:

Not sure 2016 figures have been published yet, I can't find them anyway. I'm not sure that 200 death figure is correct, looking at the other years.

I see 200 KSIs quoted not 200 deaths.

He has a point, though.

The official KSI figures have been pretty static for the past 5 years. I'd have expected an abrupt increase of some 100% in 2016 alone to have been broadcast from the highest rooftops by those parties intent on stigmatising all phone use when behind the wheel to the same level of social unacceptability as drink-driving.

FWIW, the published figures where mobile phone use was recorded as a contributory factor:

2011 - 22 killed, 55 seriously injured
2012 - 17 killed, 67 seriously injured
2013 - 22 killed, 73 seriously injured
2014 - 21 killed, 84 seriously injured
2015 - 22 killed, 75 seriously injured

Doesn't show hands free v hand held, or pedestrians killed as they weren't paying attention. Statistics are a wonderful tool but interpretation is not always that easy. How many were killed because driver and passenger argueing. Not trying to belittle the stats, but is just the big picture. We have hands free conversation, hand held conversation, texting, emailing all on mobile devices, do the figures show that?

[Vipers]

Some more interesting stats.

Year ending Number of deaths
September 2009 2,402
September 2010 1,906
September 2011 1,883
September 2012 1,761
September 2013 1,711
September 2014 1,731
September 2015 1,780

Neil Greig, the Institute of Advanced Motorists' director of policy and research, said that although drink-drive deaths were "flatlining", the numbers were still "unacceptable".

He called for the drink-drive limit elsewhere in Britain to be lowered to be in line with Scotland. In 2014, the Scottish government reduced the limit from 80mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood to 50mg.

The DfT said the new estimated figure of 240 road deaths involving people over the legal alcohol limit in 2014 meant the level was unchanged from 2013.

Roads Minister Andrew Jones said: "Britain continues to have some of the safest roads in the world but we cannot be complacent on road safety and are determined to do more.

[SS2.]

Vipers said:

Doesn't show hands free v hand held, or pedestrians killed as they weren't paying attention. Statistics are a wonderful tool but interpretation is not always that easy.

Correct, the figures don't show that. Nor do they show the specifics of distractions outside of the vehicle which are recorded as contributing to nearly 4 times as many accidents - Tit Monday may well have a lot to answer for.

What the figures do show is that KSIs where mobile phone use is officially recorded as a contributory factor has, over the past few years, totalled out at about 100.

The claim in this thread is that the figures for 2016 have already been released (that was quick) and that they show a doubling in this KSI rate.

Would be interesting to see on what data that claim is based.

[nonsequitur]

rambo19 said:

The main problem is peoples utter addiction to their phones, not just in the car, but in general.
Cinema/pub/restaurant/shop etc etc.

The longest journey I undertake on a regular basis is when I visit my mum, southend to hampshire.
It takes about 3 hours.
I never ever use or look at my phone whilst driving, so lets say my phone rings just as I am leaving my house, when I stop for a pee/coffee, after about 90 minutes driving, I will check my phone then.
I just wished people would leave the bloody phone alone whilst driving.

Succinct and to the point, well said sir.

Edited by nonsequitur on Wednesday 8th February 17:16

[nonsequitur]

nipsips said:

Its not dangerous because its remote.

If you had a blind passenger would you be forbidden from talking to them?

I'll carry on driving safely as I have done for many many years and you carry on doing the same and we will all live happily around each other.

Driving safely is a subjective opinion. I will carry on making those little mistakes as always, as we all do every time we are behind the wheel.

Edited by nonsequitur on Wednesday 8th February 12:50

[nonsequitur]

BeastMaster said:

nonsequitur said:

Vipers said:

nipsips said:

I use my phone to talk a lot while driving. I have apple car play in the car so its all done through the dash. Perfectly 100% legal - and I don't see it as a distraction. I don't text/snap/facebook or anything else as that means touching the phone. I can call anyone without even looking at the display using Siri. To be honest its less of a distraction than adjusting the temperature on my climate control.

A competent driver knows when they need to concentrate, and stops talking and concentrates on the road regardless of whether they are talking to a passenger or on the phone. If you go quiet and stop talking you can generally explain within a few seconds why you stop talking.

A competent driver also knows there own abilities and is safe to decide when for example to have one hand on the wheel. The way some of you go on the car should have sensors to check whether you have two hands on the wheel and that your eyes are welded to the road ahead - if your not a big boxing glove should come out of the steering wheel and box you on the nose

Just for clarity I do many thousands of miles across England/France/Belgium/Germany incident free with minimal near misses etc before any of you bang on about my driving and that I'm a danger for daring to have a conversation whilst driving.

All you say makes sense.

Sorry, non sense.

Conducting any remote telephone conversation, however it is configured, which could involve minute details, planning, recall and comprehensive calculations and all when driving, is just plain crazy.
To repeat, 200 phone while driving fatalities and serious injury in 2016.

Edited by nonsequitur on Sunday 5th February 18:19

Edited by nonsequitur on Sunday 5th February 18:20

Where does he say he is making these detailed, planning and comprehensive calculations. A competent driver is never going to get into this type of conversation and will agree a call back time with the caller to discuss more complex issue.

If I was not able to take calls in my car I would be bombarded with emails, which would cause me far more stress while driving knowing a work build up was happening while behind the wheel, which a simple phone call could clarify or explain.

I believe the authorities are not concerned so much about the legal use of phones in cars which after all is no different to having a discussion with your business partner as a passenger, but the bigger picture that in general people do not want to talk to each other anymore but use email and other media to communicate which is a big no while driving, and if the phone is in a holder or your workcase impossible.

Everyone these days sees driving as a rite, but not many see it as a responsibility to be behind the wheel of nearly 2 tons of metal travelling at speed. Being a responsible driver is deferring that difficult phone call, or not being distracted by your passenger and driving as reasonably safe as possible and if we are honest we should all know the boundaries which are acceptable or are not fit to drive.

Clarify and explain.
Your second paragraph identifies my point completely.

[nonsequitur]

SS2. said:

herewego said:

helix402 said:

Not sure 2016 figures have been published yet, I can't find them anyway. I'm not sure that 200 death figure is correct, looking at the other years.

I see 200 KSIs quoted not 200 deaths.

He has a point, though.

The official KSI figures have been pretty static for the past 5 years. I'd have expected an abrupt increase of some 100% in 2016 alone to have been broadcast from the highest rooftops by those parties intent on stigmatising all phone use when behind the wheel to the same level of social unacceptability as drink-driving.

FWIW, the published figures where mobile phone use was recorded as a contributory factor:

2011 - 22 killed, 55 seriously injured
2012 - 17 killed, 67 seriously injured
2013 - 22 killed, 73 seriously injured
2014 - 21 killed, 84 seriously injured
2015 - 22 killed, 75 seriously injured

We are close to making these statistics over complicated.

Whatever the correct numbers we are currently discussing, if it is hand held, hands free, texting, email, facebook or anything else, these numbers are far too high.

Using a phone while driving is a CHOICE beholden on the user. It could be turned off, left in a bag etc, but no it is on and avaiable to use. A motoring menace.

[Vipers]

HSE stats for 2015 show :

Between 220 and 260 people were killed in Great Britain where at least 1 driver was over the drink drive limit.

The number of seriously injured casualties in drink drive accidents were 1,070.

The total number of casualties of all types in drink drive accidents is 8,210.

Just wondering what is being done about this, shouldn't the drink driving limit be zero. Seems although fatalities and injuries can be reduced (hopefully) by increase fines for using a hand held phone, what is being done about drink drive limits.

Just a thought.

[nonsequitur]

Vipers said:

HSE stats for 2015 show :

Between 220 and 260 people were killed in Great Britain where at least 1 driver was over the drink drive limit.

The number of seriously injured casualties in drink drive accidents were 1,070.

The total number of casualties of all types in drink drive accidents is 8,210.

Just wondering what is being done about this, shouldn't the drink driving limit be zero. Seems although fatalities and injuries can be reduced (hopefully) by increase fines for using a hand held phone, what is being done about drink drive limits.

Just a thought.

This thread is about phones and driving.

As far as I'm aware the drink driving limit is on the agenda.

If you are convicted of DD then you will lose your licence. The ultimate sanction. (Three years in a recent local case.)

I'm hoping that loss of licence will be soon be invoked for phone use. But, 6 points and £1000 fine from March 1st is a good start.

[Boosted LS1]

"But, 6 points and £1000 fine from March 1st is a good start."

I think it's a rubbish start. It makes no account of the scale of the offence. Using your phone whilst parked up in a layby or car park, engine running shouldn't carry any punishment at all.

Texting on the move or scrolling through your apps could merit a ban.

[rambo19]

Boosted LS1 said:

"But, 6 points and £1000 fine from March 1st is a good start."

I think it's a rubbish start. It makes no account of the scale of the offence. Using your phone whilst parked up in a layby or car park, engine running shouldn't carry any punishment at all.

Texting on the move or scrolling through your apps could merit a ban.

I would like to proof of anyone who got a FPN for using the phone whilst parked in a layby or carpark.