Mobile phone use crackdown
Discussion
This was always one of the fundemental issues with the mobile phone ban - it was badly thought through. Yet another knee jerk law introduced in the Blair years without proper scrutiny.
Why specifically ban phones? Why not radios, sat navs and any other miriad of 'tech' installed in modern cars to give the driver something to 'do' whilst stuck in yet another traffic jam?
It might make it easier for Police to prosecute those holding a phone, but when so much more of people's car driving is now spent stationary it effectively becomes a blanket rule without merit or respect of the populace. People will ignore it as being patently ridiculous, as many do.
They should either have left it alone and used the existing laws or limited it to 'whilst moving'.
Why specifically ban phones? Why not radios, sat navs and any other miriad of 'tech' installed in modern cars to give the driver something to 'do' whilst stuck in yet another traffic jam?
It might make it easier for Police to prosecute those holding a phone, but when so much more of people's car driving is now spent stationary it effectively becomes a blanket rule without merit or respect of the populace. People will ignore it as being patently ridiculous, as many do.
They should either have left it alone and used the existing laws or limited it to 'whilst moving'.
Rick101 said:
With funding declining I'm surprised there is no arrangement for forces to be able to keep revenue from mobile phone fines, or at least some of it.
They did this by offering Driver Awareness Courses for mobile phone use and keeping the profits. This led to a fourfold fall in those being fined from 123,000 in 2011 to 30,000 in 2014. The Police were accused of down rating the offence to a minor one in their dash for cash. In Dorset they stopped offering the course as a result of the bad publicity this caused.
How about using Police Radios....?
Police Interceptors had an example of the Durham constabulary on a high speed pursuit with blues lights on, one hand on the wheel, the other holding down a button on the radio attached to his uniform.... If i remember right, it was wet aswell... Now if that officer left the road and injured someone, would he be held accountable for driving without due care and attention?
How can that be acceptable if people are getting pulled up for phone use?
I'm not saying in anyway that either practices are acceptable!!
Police Interceptors had an example of the Durham constabulary on a high speed pursuit with blues lights on, one hand on the wheel, the other holding down a button on the radio attached to his uniform.... If i remember right, it was wet aswell... Now if that officer left the road and injured someone, would he be held accountable for driving without due care and attention?
How can that be acceptable if people are getting pulled up for phone use?
I'm not saying in anyway that either practices are acceptable!!
super7 said:
How about using Police Radios....?
Police Interceptors had an example of the Durham constabulary on a high speed pursuit with blues lights on, one hand on the wheel, the other holding down a button on the radio attached to his uniform.... If i remember right, it was wet aswell... Now if that officer left the road and injured someone, would he be held accountable for driving without due care and attention?
How can that be acceptable if people are getting pulled up for phone use?
I'm not saying in anyway that either practices are acceptable!!
Police radios are not covered by mobile phone legislation as they operate on a different bandwidth. The same as 2 way radios and CB radios are not covered too. (Think Top Gear) They use two way radios in most episodes.Police Interceptors had an example of the Durham constabulary on a high speed pursuit with blues lights on, one hand on the wheel, the other holding down a button on the radio attached to his uniform.... If i remember right, it was wet aswell... Now if that officer left the road and injured someone, would he be held accountable for driving without due care and attention?
How can that be acceptable if people are getting pulled up for phone use?
I'm not saying in anyway that either practices are acceptable!!
Obviously if someone is all over the road while using a two way radio then different legislation will apply.
In all fairness, it's irrelevant what frequency some "Device" is using, it's down to the distraction caused by using said device! So if I switched my mobile to a CB channel would it be legal?
Is this not down to the act of being distracted and not being in full control of the vehicle? You could argue the toss that the officer in the pursuit on C5 was not in full control.... he only had one hand on the steering wheel, whilst holding down a button a good distance from the wheel and giving a full commentary on where the car being chased was going....
All i'm saying is consistency in the application of the law as perceived by the general public .... Why don't the police have handsfree radios anyway????? And if they already do, why aren't they used.
Is this not down to the act of being distracted and not being in full control of the vehicle? You could argue the toss that the officer in the pursuit on C5 was not in full control.... he only had one hand on the steering wheel, whilst holding down a button a good distance from the wheel and giving a full commentary on where the car being chased was going....
All i'm saying is consistency in the application of the law as perceived by the general public .... Why don't the police have handsfree radios anyway????? And if they already do, why aren't they used.
Edited by super7 on Monday 23 January 13:15
caelite said:
quoteunquote_sir_ said:
spookly said:
I drove past a marked police car yesterday morning and the single copper in the car was busy with a large Costa coffee.
Personally I don't understand why the first offence isn't a minimum 12 month ban like drink driving.super7 said:
In all fairness, it's irrelevant what frequency some "Device" is using, it's down to the distraction caused by using said device! So if I switched my mobile to a CB channel would it be legal?
Is this not down to the act of being distracted and not being in full control of the vehicle? You could argue the toss that the officer in the pursuit on C5 was not in full control.... he only had one hand on the steering wheel, whilst holding down a button a good distance from the wheel and giving a full commentary on where the car being chased was going....
All i'm saying is consistency in the application of the law as perceived by the general public .... Why don't the police have handsfree radios anyway????? And if they already do, why aren't they used.
Yes if your phone operated on CB frequencies it would be legal (albeit not possible to do). Police do have hands free, It could be the car channel was on a separate channel to the pursuit channel. We weren't there so do not know.Is this not down to the act of being distracted and not being in full control of the vehicle? You could argue the toss that the officer in the pursuit on C5 was not in full control.... he only had one hand on the steering wheel, whilst holding down a button a good distance from the wheel and giving a full commentary on where the car being chased was going....
All i'm saying is consistency in the application of the law as perceived by the general public .... Why don't the police have handsfree radios anyway????? And if they already do, why aren't they used.
Edited by super7 on Monday 23 January 13:15
Just because he had 1 hand on the wheel does not mean he wasn't in proper control. A lot of people drive with one hand on the wheel and 1 hand on the gear stick without issue every single day. If it was found his driving wasn't appropriate he would've been called up on this.
The fact is Police radios and two-way radios are legal to use whilst driving and that's the current law. Mobile phone are illegal to use whilst driving. If you don't agree I can only advise to lobby your MP to get the law changed.
Edited by HantsRat on Monday 23 January 13:25
HantsRat said:
Police radios are not covered by mobile phone legislation as they operate on a different bandwidth. The same as 2 way radios and CB radios are not covered too. (Think Top Gear) They use two way radios in most episodes.
Obviously if someone is all over the road while using a two way radio then different legislation will apply.
And who would enforce that, the Police Obviously if someone is all over the road while using a two way radio then different legislation will apply.
They should really have left it with CD10/20/30
Example this morning: A wide load on the dual carriageway doing about 40mph. Van behind as "Escort", weaving about. Noticed driver using his mobile. But so do the cops in the unmarked Audi behind me, who stopped the wide load AND the van. (Presumably as the wide load would not have been allowed to continue without the escort).
It's muppets like this who should just have their license immediately suspended - not wait for a court to apply points / fine.
I for one cannot see good reason to immediately suspend a driver guilty of using mobile phone, driving dangerously, excessive speed (vastly excessive - i.e.over 100mph), drink driving or drugged driving. Stupid that such people are allowed to continue until their court case comes up 9 months later.
It's muppets like this who should just have their license immediately suspended - not wait for a court to apply points / fine.
I for one cannot see good reason to immediately suspend a driver guilty of using mobile phone, driving dangerously, excessive speed (vastly excessive - i.e.over 100mph), drink driving or drugged driving. Stupid that such people are allowed to continue until their court case comes up 9 months later.
HantsRat said:
super7 said:
In all fairness, it's irrelevant what frequency some "Device" is using, it's down to the distraction caused by using said device! So if I switched my mobile to a CB channel would it be legal?
Is this not down to the act of being distracted and not being in full control of the vehicle? You could argue the toss that the officer in the pursuit on C5 was not in full control.... he only had one hand on the steering wheel, whilst holding down a button a good distance from the wheel and giving a full commentary on where the car being chased was going....
All i'm saying is consistency in the application of the law as perceived by the general public .... Why don't the police have handsfree radios anyway????? And if they already do, why aren't they used.
Yes if your phone operated on CB frequencies it would be legal (albeit not possible to do). Police do have hands free, It could be the car channel was on a separate channel to the pursuit channel. We weren't there so do not know.Is this not down to the act of being distracted and not being in full control of the vehicle? You could argue the toss that the officer in the pursuit on C5 was not in full control.... he only had one hand on the steering wheel, whilst holding down a button a good distance from the wheel and giving a full commentary on where the car being chased was going....
All i'm saying is consistency in the application of the law as perceived by the general public .... Why don't the police have handsfree radios anyway????? And if they already do, why aren't they used.
Edited by super7 on Monday 23 January 13:15
Just because he had 1 hand on the wheel does not mean he wasn't in proper control. A lot of people drive with one hand on the wheel and 1 hand on the gear stick without issue every single day. If it was found his driving wasn't appropriate he would've been called up on this.
The fact is Police radios and two-way radios are legal to use whilst driving and that's the current law. Mobile phone are illegal to use whilst driving. If you don't agree I can only advise to lobby your MP to get the law changed.
Edited by HantsRat on Monday 23 January 13:25
I'm not on about frequencies, number of hands on the wheel, the gear stick, or the misses, i'm on about the fact that there are blatant double standards. If we should not be using any mobile devices in the car, then those that police us should not be seen to be behaving in a similar manner...
Once again, I am not defending anyone who uses a mobile... just pointing out perceived discrepancies in how we're treated!
rewc said:
They did this by offering Driver Awareness Courses for mobile phone use and keeping the profits.
This led to a fourfold fall in those being fined from 123,000 in 2011 to 30,000 in 2014. The Police were accused of down rating the offence to a minor one in their dash for cash. In Dorset they stopped offering the course as a result of the bad publicity this caused.
Fairly sure it was you that said it last time. You are wrong about Dorset not offering the course, they still do offer the course for mobile phones. This led to a fourfold fall in those being fined from 123,000 in 2011 to 30,000 in 2014. The Police were accused of down rating the offence to a minor one in their dash for cash. In Dorset they stopped offering the course as a result of the bad publicity this caused.
The government have it listed as a minor offence on their site, so it isn't the police 'down rating' it.
https://www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police-while-driving...
grumpyscot said:
Example this morning: A wide load on the dual carriageway doing about 40mph. Van behind as "Escort", weaving about. Noticed driver using his mobile. But so do the cops in the unmarked Audi behind me, who stopped the wide load AND the van. (Presumably as the wide load would not have been allowed to continue without the escort).
It's muppets like this who should just have their license immediately suspended - not wait for a court to apply points / fine.
I for one cannot see good reason to immediately suspend a driver guilty of using mobile phone, driving dangerously, excessive speed (vastly excessive - i.e.over 100mph), drink driving or drugged driving. Stupid that such people are allowed to continue until their court case comes up 9 months later.
The escort may have been speaking with the low loader? Not sure what the weaving would be about though.It's muppets like this who should just have their license immediately suspended - not wait for a court to apply points / fine.
I for one cannot see good reason to immediately suspend a driver guilty of using mobile phone, driving dangerously, excessive speed (vastly excessive - i.e.over 100mph), drink driving or drugged driving. Stupid that such people are allowed to continue until their court case comes up 9 months later.
We never needed a mobile phone law, it's way OTT and we're being sold a pup. Existing laws took care of poor driving.
super7 said:
So.... If i'm using my Mobile whilst driving with one hand, and under perfect control, then my driving is appropriate? Why would I get pulled over? Apart from the law that states because my "Device" operates on a different frequency i'm a bad boy!
I'm not on about frequencies, number of hands on the wheel, the gear stick, or the misses, i'm on about the fact that there are blatant double standards. If we should not be using any mobile devices in the car, then those that police us should not be seen to be behaving in a similar manner...
Once again, I am not defending anyone who uses a mobile... just pointing out perceived discrepancies in how we're treated!
Yes you would be pulled over because currently the law states mobile phone use even if in control is illegal. Also currently the use of two way radios and Police radios are legal. Like I mentioned. Neither of us can change that only your MP can lobby to change laws.I'm not on about frequencies, number of hands on the wheel, the gear stick, or the misses, i'm on about the fact that there are blatant double standards. If we should not be using any mobile devices in the car, then those that police us should not be seen to be behaving in a similar manner...
Once again, I am not defending anyone who uses a mobile... just pointing out perceived discrepancies in how we're treated!
yonex said:
I'm sure pulling over fellow officers is way up the list of the daily to do list of those on patrol! Still, I live in hope of those in authority someday setting an example and not being so human like the rest of us.
Police get pulled up all the time for a manner of things and are dealt with. Sometimes even more servery than the public would such as losing job/loss of pension etc. Google 'Hampshire Police Officer Dangerous Driving' - Although this was rightly dropped but still shows how officers are called up on driving issues.How many times do you see Police on the phone? I probably see about 2 or 3 photos/videos/incidents a year across the entire country. Hardly represents the Police as a whole. (Unless you are a Daily Mail reporter).
super7 said:
So.... If i'm using my Mobile whilst driving with one hand, and under perfect control, then my driving is appropriate? Why would I get pulled over? Apart from the law that states because my "Device" operates on a different frequency i'm a bad boy!
I'm not sure you have to look at a CB/Police radio to operate it though... with a mobile phone, especially nowadays there's swipe to unlock, enter code, swipe to app etc etc HantsRat said:
Police get pulled up all the time for a manner of things and are dealt with. Sometimes even more servery than the public would such as losing job/loss of pension etc. Google 'Hampshire Police Officer Dangerous Driving' - Although this was rightly dropped but still shows how officers are called up on driving issues.
How many times do you see Police on the phone? I probably see about 2 or 3 photos/videos/incidents a year across the entire country. Hardly represents the Police as a whole. (Unless you are a Daily Mail reporter).
Is that acceptable then, just a few? Apparently one must sympathise with those in authority losing their careers and pensions if they are in a position of authority. For me it goes with the territory quite frankly. As for generalisations let's not bring that and/or profiling into this discussion. It is something the Police are involved with each and every day!How many times do you see Police on the phone? I probably see about 2 or 3 photos/videos/incidents a year across the entire country. Hardly represents the Police as a whole. (Unless you are a Daily Mail reporter).
The fact is it is allowed for a driver to use a handset if he or she is behind the wheel of a Police car, but the general public are prosecuted. The law is an ass.
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