Public Right of Way
Discussion
Each local authority has an obligation to a publish rights of way map. Where I used to live there was a less than energetic approach to this and in the area that I lived, right on the edge of the Downs, there was something like a 20 year lapse. I wanted to cycle to work, as well as pleasure, along a path used by horses but was not marked on the LA map as such and OS maps showed it as a footpath. The local farmer, renting the farm from the LA, used to block the path.
A phone call to the LA paths dept got a copy of a fragments of an OS map sent to me with a bridleway drawn on it and signed by the bloke in charge. I was stopped by the farmer when cycling and I produced the map and he obviously knew about it, as the LA bloke had said, and just moaned and walked away.
I can see farmers' points of view with regard to bridleways. In that area there were three equestrian stables and two riding schools and these would churn up the surface of bridleways, and footways, during the summer and when wet. I've seen jockeys four abreast along a bridleway just wide enough for one, the adjacent field taking up the supernumerary horses. That's out of order.
A phone call to the LA paths dept got a copy of a fragments of an OS map sent to me with a bridleway drawn on it and signed by the bloke in charge. I was stopped by the farmer when cycling and I produced the map and he obviously knew about it, as the LA bloke had said, and just moaned and walked away.
I can see farmers' points of view with regard to bridleways. In that area there were three equestrian stables and two riding schools and these would churn up the surface of bridleways, and footways, during the summer and when wet. I've seen jockeys four abreast along a bridleway just wide enough for one, the adjacent field taking up the supernumerary horses. That's out of order.
As far as the dog issue goes ever since being bitten by some idiots dog who didn't give a f
k about controlling it while I was out jogging I've used a sonic repellent device which just seems to confuse the animal and they leave you alone. Obviously won't work on an old or deaf canine but I usually carry it when out for a run these days and most dogs just give me a wide berth when I activate it.
k about controlling it while I was out jogging I've used a sonic repellent device which just seems to confuse the animal and they leave you alone. Obviously won't work on an old or deaf canine but I usually carry it when out for a run these days and most dogs just give me a wide berth when I activate it.I do a lot of cross country hiking with my son , a few times ive come across a ROW thats through someones garden. All the ones weve come across have a sign saying something like ' you have a legal ROW through our garden and can use it but to make your walk more pleasant we have provided the signposted alternate route down a nice gravelled path with some interesting plants and trees for you to see if you prefer'. Which is a good compromise and usually they've made a really good effort to make it a nice walk
With regards to some of the advice about "going around the boundary", I'd advise against this - when you do that it often causes more issues/disturbance. (For example, my dogs go spare when people do this as it actually brings them closer to the property)
My area has local parish footpath wardens who are easy enough to find if you look on the parish councils website - suggest you take that option as the district footpath officers tend to have far less time and less specific knowledge about the routes.
My area has local parish footpath wardens who are easy enough to find if you look on the parish councils website - suggest you take that option as the district footpath officers tend to have far less time and less specific knowledge about the routes.
Dodsy said:
I do a lot of cross country hiking with my son , a few times ive come across a ROW thats through someones garden. All the ones weve come across have a sign saying something like ' you have a legal ROW through our garden and can use it but to make your walk more pleasant we have provided the signposted alternate route down a nice gravelled path with some interesting plants and trees for you to see if you prefer'. Which is a good compromise and usually they've made a really good effort to make it a nice walk
When I lived in NW Kent I used a bridleway that started near my house and took me to Forestry Commission land. A local farmer tried to block it by driving a tractor backwards and forwards across a damps corner of his field, churning up the surface by a stile, generously placed there and maintained by a local footpath group. I saw him doing it one day and took part in an argument between him and another walker. Both of us walkers joined the local footpath group.The farmer was well known for his belligerent attitude but our eye witness evidence was just what they wanted and a prolonged battle with the local authority and the farmer ensued, ending up at a sort of tribunal/meeting courtesy of the LA. The thing about the route of the footpath was that it ran along the lower end of a couple of fields and as it got muddy walkers would move out into the field. I could see the chaps irritation. He said that he'd prefer it if the footpath ran up the hill on the edge of his field. Ironically, or do I mean sadly, this was the preferred route of the footpath group. It would have saved a lot of aggravation on both sides if only a conversation had started hears ago.
Confrontation doesn't always help.
BrettMRC said:
With regards to some of the advice about "going around the boundary", I'd advise against this - when you do that it often causes more issues/disturbance. (For example, my dogs go spare when people do this as it actually brings them closer to the property)
My area has local parish footpath wardens who are easy enough to find if you look on the parish councils website - suggest you take that option as the district footpath officers tend to have far less time and less specific knowledge about the routes.
You sound like my neighbour. My area has local parish footpath wardens who are easy enough to find if you look on the parish councils website - suggest you take that option as the district footpath officers tend to have far less time and less specific knowledge about the routes.
I walk the dog down a path every day and the official RoW goes straight through the middle of a field, when I first moved in I could see the brief outline of a not very walked path on the correct RoW but also a similar route round the perimeter so I chose to go round the edge. After a few days I bumped into the guy who owned the field who politely pointed out that I was "off piste" and asked that I stick to the existing RoW, his concern was that by using the perimeter route over time it would establish another right of way and he'd then end up with two of them through his field. I could see his point.
mel said:
You sound like my neighbour.
I walk the dog down a path every day and the official RoW goes straight through the middle of a field, when I first moved in I could see the brief outline of a not very walked path on the correct RoW but also a similar route round the perimeter so I chose to go round the edge. After a few days I bumped into the guy who owned the field who politely pointed out that I was "off piste" and asked that I stick to the existing RoW, his concern was that by using the perimeter route over time it would establish another right of way and he'd then end up with two of them through his field. I could see his point.
Exactly...also, the landowner has a duty to ensure the ROW is clear and maintained so it doesn't happen. Lots of them don't do it in the hope it will stop people using it I walk the dog down a path every day and the official RoW goes straight through the middle of a field, when I first moved in I could see the brief outline of a not very walked path on the correct RoW but also a similar route round the perimeter so I chose to go round the edge. After a few days I bumped into the guy who owned the field who politely pointed out that I was "off piste" and asked that I stick to the existing RoW, his concern was that by using the perimeter route over time it would establish another right of way and he'd then end up with two of them through his field. I could see his point.
I have the opposite problem. I have a field with NO RoW through it although there is one in the next field. Unfortunately, our field provides a shortcut to the to route of the RoW and a bridleway where a lot of people walk. People are just too lazy to walk the legitimate way round so climb our fence, trespass through the field and climb over the gate. The bds have wrecked the fence and the gate 
and then to top it off, some of the buggers have complained to the parish council that a couple of fence posts are broken, which is apparently a health and safety issue, and that the footpath isn't being maintained 
That's right, the trespassing feckers have complained that we're not maintaining a non-existent footpath. We had turned a blind eye to the trespassers but now they've irritated me, new stock fence and barbed wire is going up next week, then I'll stick some livestock in there. I'm tempted to get a Highland bull...
ds have wrecked the fence and the gate and then to top it off, some of the buggers have complained to the parish council that a couple of fence posts are broken, which is apparently a health and safety issue, and that the footpath isn't being maintained That's right, the trespassing feckers have complained that we're not maintaining a non-existent footpath. We had turned a blind eye to the trespassers but now they've irritated me, new stock fence and barbed wire is going up next week, then I'll stick some livestock in there. I'm tempted to get a Highland bull...QuickQuack said:
I have the opposite problem. I have a field with NO RoW through it although there is one in the next field. Unfortunately, our field provides a shortcut to the to route of the RoW and a bridleway where a lot of people walk. People are just too lazy to walk the legitimate way round so climb our fence, trespass through the field and climb over the gate. The bds have wrecked the fence and the gate and then to top it off, some of the buggers have complained to the parish council that a couple of fence posts are broken, which is apparently a health and safety issue, and that the footpath isn't being maintained That's right, the trespassing feckers have complained that we're not maintaining a non-existent footpath. We had turned a blind eye to the trespassers but now they've irritated me, new stock fence and barbed wire is going up next week, then I'll stick some livestock in there. I'm tempted to get a Highland bull...
Maybe they are not aware of the correct route. You can get footpath direction signs free from your LA footpaths officer.ds have wrecked the fence and the gate and then to top it off, some of the buggers have complained to the parish council that a couple of fence posts are broken, which is apparently a health and safety issue, and that the footpath isn't being maintained That's right, the trespassing feckers have complained that we're not maintaining a non-existent footpath. We had turned a blind eye to the trespassers but now they've irritated me, new stock fence and barbed wire is going up next week, then I'll stick some livestock in there. I'm tempted to get a Highland bull...QuickQuack said:
I have the opposite problem. I have a field with NO RoW through it although there is one in the next field. Unfortunately, our field provides a shortcut to the to route of the RoW and a bridleway where a lot of people walk. People are just too lazy to walk the legitimate way round so climb our fence, trespass through the field and climb over the gate. The bds have wrecked the fence and the gate and then to top it off, some of the buggers have complained to the parish council that a couple of fence posts are broken, which is apparently a health and safety issue, and that the footpath isn't being maintained That's right, the trespassing feckers have complained that we're not maintaining a non-existent footpath. We had turned a blind eye to the trespassers but now they've irritated me, new stock fence and barbed wire is going up next week, then I'll stick some livestock in there. I'm tempted to get a Highland bull...
Some big "no right of way" signs first, followed by giving permission to some local chaps to hunt on your field if they keep trespassers out will solve this ds have wrecked the fence and the gate and then to top it off, some of the buggers have complained to the parish council that a couple of fence posts are broken, which is apparently a health and safety issue, and that the footpath isn't being maintained That's right, the trespassing feckers have complained that we're not maintaining a non-existent footpath. We had turned a blind eye to the trespassers but now they've irritated me, new stock fence and barbed wire is going up next week, then I'll stick some livestock in there. I'm tempted to get a Highland bull...
herewego said:
Maybe they are not aware of the correct route. You can get footpath direction signs free from your LA footpaths officer.
I see this a lot when out walking , a small sign at a field entry saying 'No right of way' then an arrow with 'footpath this way' and some little round markers to follow placed at intervals on fence posts.Somebody mentioned above about houses unlikely to be built over rights of way. Near our last place this happened and we only knew about it as we backed onto the fields over which this footpath passed. Basically it all stirred up because someone on the other side of the field sold their bungalow subject to contract, the purchaser's solicitor kicked up, rightly, because searches showed that a right of way passed through the dining room and kitchen.
Turned out the original planning permission had a condition which instructed the developer to get the route of the right of way changed to align it with the real pathway that had developed on the ground. This he had failed to do, council planning officers also failed to pick up on it, and years later all the shambles of a public meeting and the arguments about doing it in retrospect. Everyone around the area were notified and asked to comment.
One thing that irritated quite a few, was that the Ramblers came along and stated that they objected any changes as historic path routes were important to them and they religiously walked the exact route of this path as mapped. Problem was the mapped route took several dog legs and 90 degree bends as it crossed this field, the route was round the boundaries of old small fields that had been all consolidated into one big wheat field. The path on the ground just went straight across from corner to corner. When the clown from the Ramblers was asked how he navigated across the field to follow the winding old route he had no answer and it became clear they were objecting just to be arsey about it on principle.
Turned out the original planning permission had a condition which instructed the developer to get the route of the right of way changed to align it with the real pathway that had developed on the ground. This he had failed to do, council planning officers also failed to pick up on it, and years later all the shambles of a public meeting and the arguments about doing it in retrospect. Everyone around the area were notified and asked to comment.
One thing that irritated quite a few, was that the Ramblers came along and stated that they objected any changes as historic path routes were important to them and they religiously walked the exact route of this path as mapped. Problem was the mapped route took several dog legs and 90 degree bends as it crossed this field, the route was round the boundaries of old small fields that had been all consolidated into one big wheat field. The path on the ground just went straight across from corner to corner. When the clown from the Ramblers was asked how he navigated across the field to follow the winding old route he had no answer and it became clear they were objecting just to be arsey about it on principle.
We had similar a couple of years ago. Our houses were built in the early 1970s, on what had previously been open fields. There was a network of Public Footpaths across the area, but like FiF's example, the developers had never actually applied for them to be re-routed. Certainly in the last 5 years the PROWs were as they had always been, and passed through gardens and houses. Yet in that time, no-one could recall any incident where a walker had insisted on using the marked paths. So a whole load of laminated A4 sheets were fixed to fences and lamp posts by the council, detailing the changes to the Definitive Rights of Way map. The new paths would be marked to follow the actual alleyways that the developer had built right back in the 70s. The only difference was that there were no busy-body ramblers lying about using the paths, and everyone I spoke to thought it was a good idea, surprised that the council even needed to put up the notices warning of the changes. The changes happened and everyone carried on exactly as they had done for the forty years or more since the houses were built.
But then there was a small estate built near my mum' house where the developer was warned to preserve a Public Footpath that was in regular use. But they didn't, and effectively fenced off the rear gardens of these new houses OVER the path. I seem to recall they lost a battle to retrospectively get the ROW moved, and they had to cut the ends off the gardens of these new houses to reinstate the path.
But then there was a small estate built near my mum' house where the developer was warned to preserve a Public Footpath that was in regular use. But they didn't, and effectively fenced off the rear gardens of these new houses OVER the path. I seem to recall they lost a battle to retrospectively get the ROW moved, and they had to cut the ends off the gardens of these new houses to reinstate the path.
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