Parking fine @ a supermarket carpark - enforceable?

[CaptainCosworth]

S11Steve said:

Aisle of Unnecessary Expenditure

[herewego]

I think if they go back to the store they'll get some kind of waiver to return to the parking company. Lidl are not about upsetting customers they are about trying to reduce abusive parkers.

[Red Devil]

S11Steve said:

surveyor_101 said:

yet to find a lidil that doesn't allow you 90 mins as a minimum sounds fishy 30 mins.

Dont pay write to them and contact lidil to complain.

If 30 minutes sounds fishy, then Lidl Walthamstow parking is a whole trawler of fish which allows a hugely generous ten minutes - http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-27...

Where did you get Walthamstow from? The article makes no mention of it at all. The only reference I can find is to 'A branch in Kent'.
The first bullet point in this Daily Fail piece states it was in Ashford - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711396/Wo...

It isn't clear which media outlet first ran the story but none of the coverage includes a picture of the sign/s in question.
Given that signage is key to forming a purported contract this is a significant omission which undermines its validity imo.
It is therefore no more than a speculative puff piece of dubious value.

Street View doesn't help as the sign is too far away to read. Not only that, it also pre-dates the article by two years.
So we're none the wiser.

[S11Steve]

I'm currently in letter tennis about 10 minute parking at Walthamstow Lidl with Athena - a search on "lidl walthamstow parking" brought up that link because I know that PH typically requires documentary evidence on any point ever made...!

[Red Devil]

Fair enough.

Lidl Walthamstow 'double dip' - http://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/8980232.WALT...

A more recent article on Athena ANPR's 10 minute scam (in Barking).
http://www.barkinganddagenhampost.co.uk/news/busin...
The sign appears to make no mention of this at all.
If it's not in the displayed T&Cs it's unenforceable.

Do you have a pic of the Lidl Walthamstow signage you could share with us?

[Martyn76]

numtumfutunch said:

The signage will be all important

Got a pic?

No pics yet, I haven;t spoken to them in a couple of days so not sure if they have been back to check the signage, etc

[Martyn76]

ChrisnChris said:

If they still have their store receipt, copy it & send it, with a covering letter, to ANPR, the ticket will be cancelled.
If they don't have the receipt, get a copy of the bank statement with the payment details on, assuming they didn't pay with cash. Copy this, blocking out any sensitive details, of course, and send this to ANPR, the ticket will be cancelled.
This is from my experience a year or so ago, it might have changed.

This was my thinking but they either chucked it in the bin or lost it, they paid cash (spent approx £10) so no actual proof they spent anything in the store.

[S11Steve]

No photos, but to be honest the signage is largely irrelevant as my defence is nearly always focused on Keeper Liability compliance. But I do have a bit of experience with Athena...

[Yipper]

Fight the scum.

They are invoices, not fines.

Check the firm and "fine" / charge are legit.

Appeal, deny, re-appeal, ignore.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/protect/2014...

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-p...

[yellowjack]

PurpleMoonlight said:

That's a crazy system.

What happens if you visit for one item and it's out of stock?

The arrival of this system at the Farnham branch of Lidl (or is it Aldi? - they're entirely interchangeable in my mind) meant I stopped going there at all.

You had to enter your registration number at the till. I pretty much only visited the store when they had those special offers on, like tools or cycling gear. Quite often they didn't have what I wanted, or not in my size. So then you have to queue to get to a till, and then go through the explanation. Shame they don't have a dedicated customer service desk, as getting a return/refund/exchange is a pain in the proverbial too.

We'd started going before the time limits and proof of 'customer status' was introduced. My wife would go to the chiropractors round the corner, I'd go in to the store to browse while I waited for her, and then when she'd finished we'd usually buy a few groceries for the sake of convenience. I get why they introduced the system, as the car park was always full with folk trying to avoid the P&D car parks in town, and gym-goers from over the road. But the 90 minutes free parking meant I'd feel obliged to do at least some of my weekly shop in there. Now, rather than bother with their convoluted system of registering at check-out or scanning a receipt, I just park on a side-street further away to nip into Farnham to the bike shop, etc. Granted I didn't used to spend a fortune in there, but they've driven me away as a customer completely now.

At least with most other supermarkets and shopping parks you usually get a simple time limit, and you can take a look at stuff in Next, Halfords, DFS or whatever without feeling obliged to buy anything. I don't object to 'honest' charging either. Our local Asda is P&D, and the Atrium in Camberley is pay on exit. No issues with that as I can see what it costs and can choose to go elsewhere if I don't like it. Not so with this Lidl nonsense. It almost feels like a bit of a scam to be honest.

[S11Steve]

yellowjack said:

It almost feels like a bit of a scam to be honest.

Nothing "almost" about it...

[surveyor_101]

S11Steve said:

Nothing "almost" about it...

Generally speaking it is most of the time.

Of course there is a genuine need to manage some carparks but the current systems self regulation is not working. I have yet to come across that is 90% professional and has all the proper paperwork and legal side covered.

It seems to be a numbers game PPC offer to do free carpark management if they can generate fine revenue. They then seem to issue a number of questionable fines alot with the genuine breaches and that way they seem to make a tidy some.

Since most peoples reaction is panic and fear, the business model seems to make some companies good money.

I have found evidence of very dodgy dealings with a BPA member and they didn't care and blamed POPLA for not reporting it. POPLA say they just adjudicate on individual tickets and dont pass on evidence to the BPA. The BPA say POPLA are wrong and that they check operators aren't being naughty. They would not look into my concerns or the evidence I presented.

BPA eventually stop trying to explain to me why they won't investigate my concerns on one of their biggest members. BPA are the better of the two bodies if you like! I realised then then industry was corrupt. I didn't bother with complaints to the DVLA as they two seem to maintain the 'status quo' which is if your BPA/IPC you can have access to their data (for money of course) and they care not if it legitimate as that is BPA/IPC's job!

BPA finally told me they are a trade body and have no power to sanction member's who misbehave as its a voluntary code of practice.

I pointed out the press releases regards UKPC being sanctioned from not following the code! They told me they had closed my complaint, shower the lot of them.

Edited by surveyor_101 on Tuesday 24th January 13:48

Edited by surveyor_101 on Tuesday 24th January 13:54

[silverfoxcc]

OP


A Few 'Rules'

Do not write to the PPC

dont worry about the debt collector threat, they are toothless

Do as an earlier poster said, and put this on pepipoo.com, you will get plenty of help to fight it and save yourself money

NEVER say who was driving or infer it ..it is always, 'the driver did this' or 'the driver did that'

But get on to pepipoo.com

[surveyor_101]

silverfoxcc said:

OP


A Few 'Rules'

Do not write to the PPC

dont worry about the debt collector threat, they are toothless

Do as an earlier poster said, and put this on pepipoo.com, you will get plenty of help to fight it and save yourself money

NEVER say who was driving or infer it ..it is always, 'the driver did this' or 'the driver did that'

But get on to pepipoo.com

Why would you advise the op doesn't contact the ppc? Some take you to court if you ignore them

[pcvdriver]

hotchy said:

Scotland may be different, but I ignored mine. Once they got me on the phone, I told them to take me to court or stop harrasing me. Never heard anything since.

This was years ago now, things may have changed but I always understood they cant get you (in Scotland anyway)

Cant see them taking you to court for that little.

Although phone lidl. My gf parents did and got the ticket cancelled.

Indeed, Scotland is different - unenforceable here. File in circular filing cabinet kept in kitchen....or use as fire lighters, as has already been suggested.

[Countdown]

S11Steve said:

No photos, but to be honest the signage is largely irrelevant as my defence is nearly always focused on Keeper Liability compliance. But I do have a bit of experience with Athena...

Why do your drivers get so many tickets?

[S11Steve]

Countdown said:

Why do your drivers get so many tickets?

I have 7000 vehicles on the fleet, but they are not my drivers. We supply corporates who then allocate their own drivers.

[bad company]

silverfoxcc said:

OP


A Few 'Rules'

Do not write to the PPC

dont worry about the debt collector threat, they are toothless

Do as an earlier poster said, and put this on pepipoo.com, you will get plenty of help to fight it and save yourself money

NEVER say who was driving or infer it ..it is always, 'the driver did this' or 'the driver did that'

But get on to pepipoo.com

I think that advice is out of date now. The parking firm can now claim from the registered keeper rather than the driver.

[Countdown]

S11Steve said:

Countdown said:

Why do your drivers get so many tickets?

I have 7000 vehicles on the fleet, but they are not my drivers. We supply corporates who then allocate their own drivers.

Thanks for clarifying. We also have a "fleet" (about 50) but, as they work directly for us, it's fairly easy to make sure they comply with parking regs.

[Sheepshanks]

S11Steve said:

Countdown said:

Why do your drivers get so many tickets?

I have 7000 vehicles on the fleet, but they are not my drivers. We supply corporates who then allocate their own drivers.

Do fleet suppliers normally deal with stuff in the way you're doing? In my experience they pay up and send the bill plus an admin charge. We used to get miffed about it as we were presented with a fait accompli and the admin change was always felt to be OTT.