Is jail really the smart solution for speeding?

Is jail really the smart solution for speeding?

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Discussion

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/invernes...

I can't condone what they guy did but somehow this seems a little extreme? Father of four, a fking stupid one at that, but what is this going to do for anyone exactly? Yes he deserves a roasting but a criminal record for speeding?






kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
I suppose one could argue that lesser deterrents don't seem to work.

I could understand a few days in prison just to make the point, but four months does seem a bit disproportionate.

0000

13,812 posts

190 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
Outrageous that he wasn't looking at his speedometer while doing 149mph.

R8Steve

4,150 posts

174 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
I agree, a suspended sentence at a push.

Granted it's a pretty stupid thing to do but as you say jail is not going to help anything IMO.

Ironically had he stolen the bike, had no licence and done a runner from the police he probably would have got a lot less.

The system is certainly flawed.

robinessex

11,046 posts

180 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
Why does a quick burst up to a high speed, on a road that was apparently safe, by a competent driver, warrant such a sentence, and all the idiots you see on TV being chased, and driving like a complete moron, get not much more than a slapped wrist?

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
yonex said:
Yes he deserves a roasting but a criminal record for speeding?
Slightly off the topic I suppose, but doesn't being caught speeding always result in a criminal record?

Pete Eroleum

278 posts

186 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
Utterly ludicrous in my opinion. Law mixing with politics for the greater bad. But then he probably knew that and did it anyway......
It sometimes appears to me that the punishment for the potential to cause harm is more severe than the punishment for actual harm.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
yonex said:
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/invernes...

I can't condone what they guy did but somehow this seems a little extreme? Father of four, a fking stupid one at that, but what is this going to do for anyone exactly? Yes he deserves a roasting but a criminal record for speeding?
He hasn't got a criminal record for "speeding". You cannot be jailed for "exceeding the speed limit", let alone banned for five years and have to do an extended retest. They're all good clues as to the reality...

He was charged with dangerous driving, and he pleaded guilty to dangerous driving. He has "dangerous driving" on his record.

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
R8Steve said:
I agree, a suspended sentence at a push.

Granted it's a pretty stupid thing to do but as you say jail is not going to help anything IMO.

Ironically had he stolen the bike, had no licence and done a runner from the police he probably would have got a lot less.

The system is certainly flawed.
You are not looking at this realistically thou, those poor kids come from terrible broken homes which results in them constantly in trouble with the police, its not their fault and they need to be dealt with understanding and love so that one day they will see what they are doing is wrong


kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
Pete Eroleum said:
It sometimes appears to me that the punishment for the potential to cause harm is more severe than the punishment for actual harm.
I can easily see how that could come to be and can actually see a certain amount of logic in it - the primary aim of sentencing is meant to be to protect society from re-offence, I'd bet someone who hits and kills someone at 150mph is significant less likely to speed again than someone who does the same speed and doesn't actually cause any harm.

The difference between speeding (at this sort of level I mean, not doing 80 on the motorway) and causing death my dangerous driving is arguably more luck than anything else.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
He hasn't got a criminal record for "speeding". You cannot be jailed for "exceeding the speed limit", let alone banned for five years and have to do an extended retest. They're all good clues as to the reality...

He was charged with dangerous driving, and he pleaded guilty to dangerous driving. He has "dangerous driving" on his record.
I guess technically you are correct. But the cause is speeding.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
Pete Eroleum said:
Utterly ludicrous in my opinion. Law mixing with politics for the greater bad. But then he probably knew that and did it anyway......
It sometimes appears to me that the punishment for the potential to cause harm is more severe than the punishment for actual harm.
This, exactly this.

cologne2792

2,126 posts

125 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
Civilization rests on the principle that we treat our criminals better than they treated their victims, that we not stoop to their level, which is sadly why us, as responsible grownups, suffer harsher penalties than the stealing ratbags.

Bennet

2,119 posts

130 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
cologne2792 said:
Civilization rests on the principle that we treat our criminals better than they treated their victims...
I'm prepared to accept that there's an important philosophical truth in that.

cologne2792 said:
...that we not stoop to their level, which is sadly why us, as responsible grownups, suffer harsher penalties than the stealing ratbags.
But I can't find any reasonable explanation in the rest of what you've written for why the penalty for a relatively risk free high speed run by an otherwise law abiding person carries a higher sentence than stealing a car and joyriding through a city centre. (Or whatever the two crimes are that we're meant to be comparing.)

Motorrad

6,811 posts

186 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
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Jail time no, a lengthy ban and driver education yes.

deltashad

6,731 posts

196 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
absolutely agree.

Pete Eroleum

278 posts

186 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
....I'd bet someone who hits and kills someone at 150mph is significant less likely to speed again than someone who does the same speed and doesn't actually cause any harm.
...
Perhaps, depending on the mind/mindless-set of the offender. However punishing the latter more harshly than the former in your above example would
still seem rather ludicrous, and very far from any kind of justice, which I was under the impression our judicial system was created to try and provide.
It's also difficult sometimes to tell the difference between what actually is in the public interest, and what is just pandering to the wrath of social media.

cologne2792

2,126 posts

125 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
Bennet said:
cologne2792 said:
Civilization rests on the principle that we treat our criminals better than they treated their victims...
I'm prepared to accept that there's an important philosophical truth in that.

cologne2792 said:
...that we not stoop to their level, which is sadly why us, as responsible grownups, suffer harsher penalties than the stealing ratbags.
But I can't find any reasonable explanation in the rest of what you've written for why the penalty for a relatively risk free high speed run by an otherwise law abiding person carries a higher sentence than stealing a car and joyriding through a city centre. (Or whatever the two crimes are that we're meant to be comparing.)
I agree with you entirely. The Justice System is broken. We as law abiding people seem to be more culpable than the lowlife's that aren't. We get punished more severely because we are supposed to know better. The Liberal approach for treating persistent parasites is therefore unable to be extended to us. There is no reasonable explanation and that's why you can't find it in my post.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
yonex said:
TooMany2cvs said:
He hasn't got a criminal record for "speeding". You cannot be jailed for "exceeding the speed limit", let alone banned for five years and have to do an extended retest. They're all good clues as to the reality...

He was charged with dangerous driving, and he pleaded guilty to dangerous driving. He has "dangerous driving" on his record.
I guess technically you are correct. But the cause is speeding.
<shrug>

Have you looked at where he did it?
The article says A95, Auchendean, "by Skye of Curr".
https://goo.gl/maps/a643CNY2xFB2

There's a single-carriageway straight - Google Maps says it's about a mile and two-thirds between the A-road junction on the bend at the start of the straight and the crossroads on the 90deg corner at the end. At an average of 100mph, let's say, that's just under a minute. In that distance, there's two road junctions into a village, a quarry entrance, a double-ended farm access road, a mild bend, and about a dozen pull-offs of varying sizes. And decent views, so a reasonably high expectation of pootling grockles on a good-weather day only a week and a bit after the August bank holiday.

He lives 10 miles away - and round there, that's right next door - so would have known that road well. It's not on the route from his home to where he said he was going for fuel - so he made a detour to it - and there's an obvious detour that would bring him to the start of that straight. He intended to use that straight to run the bike up to high speed...

mgv8

1,631 posts

270 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
Its a lot easer to make speed on a bike than in a car, but 149 is more then "pushing on" so and in a 60 you have to expect a good smack.