A private parking question

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blank

Original Poster:

3,452 posts

188 months

Wednesday 8th February 2017
quotequote all
Hopefully this is a "do not pay", but wondering the best course of action...

Private car park serving a few shops.

Free car park but maximum stay 2 hours.

Parking Charge received through post (ANPR) for over staying.

Perp was in one of the shops the whole time, spending a few hundred pounds and doing various dress fittings (wedding dress shop).

No idea on signage and can't really go and check without a 2 hour round trip.


What's the best way to approach it? Letter to shop asking them to get the parking company to cancel?

JM

3,170 posts

206 months

Wednesday 8th February 2017
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blank said:
What's the best way to approach it? Letter to shop asking them to get the parking company to cancel?
Yes.

Or phone them.

Red Devil

13,060 posts

208 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
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Always a good first step but it assumes that the shop in question is the party which contracted with the PPC to manage the car park.
Where there are multiple retail premises involved it is usually the freeholder or their managing agent who has done so.
If so, the shop the OP visited may have very limited scope for intervention, so the OP needs to be prepared for potential disappointment.
A wedding dress shop is likely to have far less clout than a major retail organisation (e.g. supermarket/d-i-y store/burger chain).

Also, signage can be crucial, so if the OP is unable/unwilling to go back and check that won't assist his case.
Challenging a PPC PCN means spending some time finding out what methods work as well as those that don't.
This is not the best place for that. The OP should visit PePiPoo/MSE/BMPA/etc, where he will find those who can help.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

157 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
blank said:
Perp was in one of the shops the whole time, spending a few hundred pounds and doing various dress fittings (wedding dress shop).
You would think the retailer might warn their customers of the time limit if they are likely to be trying on dresses for two hours or more.

As they don't I doubt they will be willing to assist in having the charge cancelled.

megaphone

10,717 posts

251 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
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Signage might be visible on Google Streetview?

herewego

8,814 posts

213 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
Considering the price of wedding dresses I'd be surprised if the shop didn't do everything it could to get it cancelled and pop outside to take a few photos of the signs on a mobile and forward them to the OP.

If it's normal for people to spend that amount of time trying on a few dresses and it wouldn't surprise me, then it was very remiss of the shop owner not to discuss the parking situation with the customer.

Edited by herewego on Thursday 9th February 11:41

Dagnir

1,891 posts

163 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
What am I missing here?

Why wouldn't 'the perp' pay the fine if it's legit?

boyse7en

6,712 posts

165 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
Dagnir said:
What am I missing here?

Why wouldn't 'the perp' pay the fine if it's legit?
They would

Is the fine legit? is the question

Dagnir

1,891 posts

163 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
quotequote all
Indeed.


The OP does ask about contacting the shop to get it cancelled though. I feel like I'm missing a line that explains why they shouldn't be paying it.

S11Steve

6,374 posts

184 months

Thursday 9th February 2017
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Dagnir said:
What am I missing here?

Why wouldn't 'the perp' pay the fine if it's legit?
I've yet to find a single "fine" from a private parking company that is "legit" - and that's with processing around a few thousand a year for the last 3 years. So many of these are thrown out in court on a daily basis, and the vast majority of court wins for the private parking companies have been either default judgemnets, or a bad defence.

Even Beavis should have won against Parking Eye if he's taken to POPLA rather than the courts.


As above, contact the shop. They will have some form of access to the parking company, probably via the site managing agents. How would the staff leave their cars on site for the working day if there wasn't some form of white listing process.

Also - who was the parking company that issued the ticket?

blank

Original Poster:

3,452 posts

188 months

Saturday 25th February 2017
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Letter sent to parking company with copy of receipt.

Parking charge cancelled.

Maybe they're not all that bad!

elanfan

5,517 posts

227 months

Sunday 26th February 2017
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Now post an online review of the shop. Be fair about service and quality etc but warn about the parking restrictions. Hopefully the shop will be a little more helpful in future!

98elise

26,498 posts

161 months

Sunday 26th February 2017
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Dagnir said:
What am I missing here?

Why wouldn't 'the perp' pay the fine if it's legit?
Possibly because its not a fine, its an invoice.

If I had a shop with a small sign near the door that said if you spend more then 10 minutes in my shop then I'll send you a bill, would you pay it?

I can understand the frustration of land owners when people take the piss, but somone spending hundreds of pounds in the local shops is not someone that should be getting a large bill for parking.

herewego

8,814 posts

213 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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98elise said:
Dagnir said:
What am I missing here?

Why wouldn't 'the perp' pay the fine if it's legit?
Possibly because its not a fine, its an invoice.

If I had a shop with a small sign near the door that said if you spend more then 10 minutes in my shop then I'll send you a bill, would you pay it?

I can understand the frustration of land owners when people take the piss, but somone spending hundreds of pounds in the local shops is not someone that should be getting a large bill for parking.
I know I raised the price of wedding dresses myself but I think you're going too far there. I'm not sure that spending a lot of money should give you exemption from parking regulations.
I think it's more that a once only charge cancellation could be made for a genuine customer who has slipped up.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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98elise said:
If I had a shop with a small sign near the door that said if you spend more then 10 minutes in my shop then I'll send you a bill, would you pay it?
I'd simply go somewhere else, unless I knew I was only going to be in there very briefly.

If it said "two hours", then I'd be sure not to overstay that two hours.
If it looked likely that I would be longer, then I'd take it on myself to ask whether there was a way to extend that time...

S11Steve

6,374 posts

184 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
I'd simply go somewhere else, unless I knew I was only going to be in there very briefly.

If it said "two hours", then I'd be sure not to overstay that two hours.
If it looked likely that I would be longer, then I'd take it on myself to ask whether there was a way to extend that time...
See, that's where the problem lies. What you have explained is common sense, a feature lacking from the private parking industry. However one of the many reasons that these charges are not legit is due to the unique and interesting way the signage and terms are written. 2 hours free, no return within an hour, etc but there is no genuine offer to pay for extra time, unless you take them up on their "offer of parking for a £100 charge".

Genuine question for you then - this is the sign at a retail park where I have recently won a court claim. If you had a legitimate cause to spend 3 hours at this location, and there was no alternative place to complete what you needed to do, what would you do in accordance with these terms?


herewego

8,814 posts

213 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
What would be a legitimate cause to exceed the 1 hour?

S11Steve

6,374 posts

184 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
herewego said:
What would be a legitimate cause to exceed the 1 hour?
Exactly what the judge asked.

It's Staples Office Supplies, so I don't know, perhaps buying the stuff for a whole new home office fit out, and designing and printing a batch of fliers to advertise the new business?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

126 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
S11Steve said:
If you had a legitimate cause to spend 3 hours at this location, and there was no alternative place to complete what you needed to do, what would you do in accordance with these terms?
That sign said:
If you require assistance, please... contact the helpline number below

S11Steve

6,374 posts

184 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
S11Steve said:
If you had a legitimate cause to spend 3 hours at this location, and there was no alternative place to complete what you needed to do, what would you do in accordance with these terms?
That sign said:
If you require assistance, please... contact the helpline number below
We had a couple of example recordings of calls to that helpline number, which we planned to playback in court, but it wasn't needed.

The first 5 options are for calling out a patrol, becoming a customer, appealing a charge or ordering a permit. Option 6 is for all other enquiries. Probably a sensible place to start?

"Your call is now first in line and will be answered by the next representative, thank you for your patience" - on loop, for 38 minutes before we hung up. The second time it was 32 minutes, the third time was 27 minutes.

01142 67 86 78 if you wish to try it yourself.

So now what would you do?