Help with Yellow Box junction fine- Merton London
Discussion
The Surveyor said:
It may be a better strategy to issue a warning for the first-time, like they did recently in Newcastle when they changed all the bus lanes and only issue the fine to those who ignore rather than those who just may a mistake.
Exactly, as already mentioned on this thread people have found themselves caught in a box junction by no fault of their own or a simple mistake but no warning given down south like London or Cambridge where they think everyone earns a packet.Raygun said:
The Surveyor said:
It may be a better strategy to issue a warning for the first-time, like they did recently in Newcastle when they changed all the bus lanes and only issue the fine to those who ignore rather than those who just may a mistake.
Exactly, as already mentioned on this thread people have found themselves caught in a box junction by no fault of their own or a simple mistake but no warning given down south like London or Cambridge where they think everyone earns a packet.
The Surveyor said:
The OP says that the fine is £65 if paid in 14 days.
As a motoring offence it may not be the worse crime of the century, but box junctions are intended to keep traffic flowing as best it can (certainly much better than just letting the junction get grid-locked) and I know there are plenty of people who object to any fine, or see it as a cash-cow. Anybody driving in a busy city will know what box-junction markings are for, and should know how to use them. If they choose to ignore it, or just aren't paying attention, then a £65 slap on the wrist may just help keep them focussed and keep the traffic moving.
They are often used as 'cash cows' now tho, rather like speed cameras:-As a motoring offence it may not be the worse crime of the century, but box junctions are intended to keep traffic flowing as best it can (certainly much better than just letting the junction get grid-locked) and I know there are plenty of people who object to any fine, or see it as a cash-cow. Anybody driving in a busy city will know what box-junction markings are for, and should know how to use them. If they choose to ignore it, or just aren't paying attention, then a £65 slap on the wrist may just help keep them focussed and keep the traffic moving.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-375210...
The Surveyor said:
And if caught for a second time 'making a mistake' would you then accept the £65 / £130 fine as being reasonable?
No, £20 max, there's people smoking pot in clink that don't get done so why should any decent law abiding citizen get a hefty £65/£130 for making the mistake of entering a box junction, it's high time this country got a bit of common f
king sense back into it.bad company said:
They are often used as 'cash cows' now tho, rather like speed cameras:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-375210...
Money making thieves.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-375210...
Raygun said:
No, £20 max, there's people smoking pot in clink that don't get done so why should any decent law abiding citizen get a hefty £65/£130 for making the mistake of entering a box junction, it's high time this country got a bit of common fking sense back into it.
You say it's a mistake but for many it isn't. They know the law but couldn't give two hoots and if they block someone else when their light goes red and the cross traffic goes green, well fking sense back into it.k 'em.Or they don't know the law in which case a fine will encourage them to find out.
Raygun said:
The Surveyor said:
And if caught for a second time 'making a mistake' would you then accept the £65 / £130 fine as being reasonable?
No, £20 max, there's people smoking pot in clink that don't get done so why should any decent law abiding citizen get a hefty £65/£130 for making the mistake of entering a box junction, it's high time this country got a bit of common fking sense back into it.DaveH23 said:
Raygun said:
speedking31 said:
@akirk. Not relevant. This thread is about someone who is going to pay a high price for not paying attention.
Getting done is one thing, £20 or £25 even but £110 is taking the fking piss.This game of catching people out in bus lanes, box junctions etc is one thing but imposing heavy fines like they are is getting beyond a joke, someone might be going to work and he's lost a days money because he got caught in a box junction, no wonder people would rather sign on the dole.
Not paying attention can easily result in someone losing their life. I know its a bit extreme but i'd say a fine is a pretty good result for such a lapse in concentration.
Raygun said:
Hackney said:
If the fine was small it'd be like a bus lane tax: yeah, "I'll pay a fiver to jump the queue", which is ridiculous. It has to be enough of a jolt to make people think again before doing it.
People are not doing it on purpose, the way traffic is in London they can get caught out especially if they are not local to the area, this is why the council has set up this scam, easy money. These people responsible for charging £130 for entering a box junction by mistake should be doing time for fraud.Frankly, if all drivers who weren't paying attention could be fined £150 the world would be a better place.
It would only be a scam if you couldn't see the box junction painted on the road and still got fined.
Raygun said:
Of course they're doing it on purpose, lets give the local council £130 today for being such a great council, perhaps they can also send a letter to their local council as well asking them to increase their council tax bill, give em 80 quid to take the brown bin away rather than 40 quid.
I replied to your previous post before I saw this.You're an idiot. Sadly there are still no laws against this or fines for those caught in the act.
Hackney said:
Then they're doing it because they're not paying attention.
Frankly, if all drivers who weren't paying attention could be fined £150 the world would be a better place.
It would only be a scam if you couldn't see the box junction painted on the road and still got fined.
Some box junctions in London are very difficult or nigh on impossible to negotiate legally. There is also the problem where you see a space move towards only for it to be taken by another vehicle leaving you stuck in the box junction. It sometimes looks like a nice little earner for the councils.Frankly, if all drivers who weren't paying attention could be fined £150 the world would be a better place.
It would only be a scam if you couldn't see the box junction painted on the road and still got fined.
bad company said:
Some box junctions in London are very difficult or nigh on impossible to negotiate legally. There is also the problem where you see a space move towards only for it to be taken by another vehicle leaving you stuck in the box junction. It sometimes looks like a nice little earner for the councils.
Yes they are (see example in a previous post). I don't believe you'd be fined if someone changed lanes and took "your" space, putting you in the box junction. But, driver inattention or couldn't care less attitude, well, no excuse.A tangential question.
So some councils use this as a money making exercise, really setting up dedicated operations to detect everything they can, and use the most stringent interpretation of events they can in order to, presumably,keep the traffic moving maximise revenue.
Yet a place I drive every day has bad congestion, bus lanes and ybj, yellow lines, no red routes so far, and the chair of the transport committee is a bit of a cock frankly. Yet we don't get a billet doux demanding money with menaces when we stick a wheel over the line into the bus lane because of getting past someone turning right who can't because of clowns blocking the junction. People generally treat ybjs quite well but occasionally get caught out, there isn't some onanist in a cctv room taking photos with delight at the prospect of sending a penalty notice. Stop on a yellow lines, yes there are wardens but they are reasonable bods who ask you to move on rather than issuing a ticket the instance the wheels stop turning.
So why are London boroughs such bar stewards over this, is it mainly London? Which other cities are such an obnoxious set of gits? Bristol? Edinburgh?
So some councils use this as a money making exercise, really setting up dedicated operations to detect everything they can, and use the most stringent interpretation of events they can in order to, presumably,
Yet a place I drive every day has bad congestion, bus lanes and ybj, yellow lines, no red routes so far, and the chair of the transport committee is a bit of a cock frankly. Yet we don't get a billet doux demanding money with menaces when we stick a wheel over the line into the bus lane because of getting past someone turning right who can't because of clowns blocking the junction. People generally treat ybjs quite well but occasionally get caught out, there isn't some onanist in a cctv room taking photos with delight at the prospect of sending a penalty notice. Stop on a yellow lines, yes there are wardens but they are reasonable bods who ask you to move on rather than issuing a ticket the instance the wheels stop turning.
So why are London boroughs such bar stewards over this, is it mainly London? Which other cities are such an obnoxious set of gits? Bristol? Edinburgh?
Toltec said:
How slow can you be moving and not considered to be stopped? Occasionally I've been caught out be a car pulling out of a side road and taking the space that I was going for so I slow to a crawl to wait for the traffic to open a space again.
The offence is entering when your exit isn't clear (except when turning right). The speed is pretty much irrelevant.Hackney said:
Dr Doofenshmirtz said:
DaveH23 said:
Not wanting to sound like an arse .
You failed.Box junction cameras are a complete scam, especially in London. They only fit cameras where they know traffic bunches up and stopping is sometimes unavoidable.
If you find yourself in one, just make sure you don't stop. Drive as slow as possible, just don't actually stop and you'll be fine.
It can be difficult in some junctions (the junction at Southampton Place onto the A40 springs to mind) but someone blocking a box junction, particularly in London, can cause all sorts of delays. They only fit cameras where they know it's a problem.
Given the proliferation of speed cameras I'd applaud moves to put a camera on every box junction and on every traffic light.
Hackney said:
akirk said:
if someone is going straight across a yellow box (not turning across moving traffic to go right, how can they enter with the exit clear and not be able to exit?
the only way that can happen is if someone from another lane moves ahead of them into their lane...
asked and answered. It has happened to me, fortunately not caught on camera but if it had been I believe the other car changing lanes would have been enough to exonerate me. I entered the box junction with a clear exit, the fact that that exit became blocked while I was in progress across the junction is key.the only way that can happen is if someone from another lane moves ahead of them into their lane...
williredale said:
It happened to my wife. Her exit was clear when she entered the box but someone in the next lane went into the space. While she was stopped in the yellow box a police car came round and gave her three points and a fine for being in the box.
You wouldn't get points solely for stopping in a YBJ. And if someone nipped in and stole the space right in front of her, an appeal would have probably been in order.
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