Help with Yellow Box junction fine- Merton London
Discussion
williredale said:
While she was stopped in the yellow box a police car came round and gave her three points and a fine for being in the box.
I wasn't aware it was an endorsable offence so what was the endorsement code on her licence? Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Wednesday 15th February 10:48
JonV8V said:
The offence is entering when your exit isn't clear (except when turning right). The speed is pretty much irrelevant.
the Law said:
... no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
My bold, HTH.speedking31 said:
JonV8V said:
The offence is entering when your exit isn't clear (except when turning right). The speed is pretty much irrelevant.
the Law said:
... no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
My bold, HTH.the Law also says said:
You MUST NOT enter the [yellow] box [junction] until your exit road or lane is clear (except if turning right, etc, etc).
http://www.highwaycode.info/rule/174HTH you too
JonV8V said:
speedking31 said:
JonV8V said:
The offence is entering when your exit isn't clear (except when turning right). The speed is pretty much irrelevant.
the Law said:
... no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
My bold, HTH.the Law also says said:
You MUST NOT enter the [yellow] box [junction] until your exit road or lane is clear (except if turning right, etc, etc).
JonV8V said:
the Law also says said:
You MUST NOT enter the [yellow] box [junction] until your exit road or lane is clear (except if turning right, etc, etc).
It says that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter a box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
Highway code verbatim:
Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (download ‘Road markings’ (PDF, 731KB)). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Rule 174
Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (download ‘Road markings’ (PDF, 731KB)). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
SS2. said:
Aside from being wrong on not entering a YBJ unless the exit is clear, the Highway Code isn't 'the Law'.
Well I suggest you take that up with the appropriate authorities and point out the error of their ways. And it amounts to the same thing - if you drive into a box junction and your exit is not clear, you have caused a vehicle (yours) to enter a box junction and stop because there is a stationary vehicle blocking your exit. Otherwise, you'd prosecute the car just outside the box junction for preventing a car stopping, and the car in front of them for causing the car behind to stop which in turn has caused a car to enter a boxed junction and stop because of a stationary car... and so it would go on..
SS2. said:
Aside from being wrong on not entering a YBJ unless the exit is clear, the Highway Code isn't 'the Law'.
Correct, people assume that because the wording of the HC includes the words Must Not that means it's the law. What they're completely missing is the Highway Code references Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions regs 10(1) & 29(2) which IS the law.JonV8V said:
SS2. said:
Aside from being wrong on not entering a YBJ unless the exit is clear, the Highway Code isn't 'the Law'.
Well I suggest you take that up with the appropriate authorities and point out the error of their ways. JonV8V said:
And it amounts to the same thing..
It really doesn't.SS2. said:
You wouldn't get points solely for stopping in a YBJ.
And if someone nipped in and stole the space right in front of her, an appeal would have probably been in order.
The councils rely on people just paying up and not bothering to appeal. Most do just that.And if someone nipped in and stole the space right in front of her, an appeal would have probably been in order.
I successfully appealed a No Entry sign 'offence' in 2015. It's satisfying as I knew I was in the right but VERY time consuming so I understand why many just pay.
Raygun said:
DaveH23 said:
Raygun said:
speedking31 said:
@akirk. Not relevant. This thread is about someone who is going to pay a high price for not paying attention.
Getting done is one thing, £20 or £25 even but £110 is taking the f
king piss.This game of catching people out in bus lanes, box junctions etc is one thing but imposing heavy fines like they are is getting beyond a joke, someone might be going to work and he's lost a days money because he got caught in a box junction, no wonder people would rather sign on the dole.
Not paying attention can easily result in someone losing their life. I know its a bit extreme but i'd say a fine is a pretty good result for such a lapse in concentration.
I have no idea where you're from, but busy cities rely incredibly heavily on clear junctions to facilitate traffic flow. The actions of one selfish driver at rush hour can have a MASSIVE knock-on impact - and I'm all for high penalties to dissuade this behaviour.
OP's mate decided that he wasn't going to bother to pay attention to the other side of the junction when joining it. He may have even decided that his time was more important than those he might potentially hold up. The rules are black and white, with good reason.
JonV8V said:
And it amounts to the same thing - if you drive into a box junction and your exit is not clear, you have caused a vehicle (yours) to enter a box junction and stop because there is a stationary vehicle blocking your exit.
you've missed the point about speed and STOP. You can enter the box junction if your exit is blocked, you can then drive very slowly, but not stopping, if the exit is clear by the time you reach it then no offence has occurred. Thus speed is a very important part of the situation. Stopping is required to complete the offence.C70R said:
I've been a driver in London for a decade, and have never been caught in a box junction, bus lane or red route. I'm not a particularly good driver, but I try hard to be observant and plan ahead.
Same here, except 37 years London driving. The other day, when some clown moved from another lane and pinched my exit spot, was the first time I've ever stopped in a box junction (unless turning right).bad company said:
The councils rely on people just paying up and not bothering to appeal. Most do just that.
I successfully appealed a No Entry sign 'offence' in 2015. It's satisfying as I knew I was in the right but VERY time consuming so I understand why many just pay.
Please fill in the story here. I just love tales where the man-in-the-street gets one over an officious authority when it has made a cock-up! I successfully appealed a No Entry sign 'offence' in 2015. It's satisfying as I knew I was in the right but VERY time consuming so I understand why many just pay.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
C70R said:
I've been a driver in London for a decade, and have never been caught in a box junction, bus lane or red route. I'm not a particularly good driver, but I try hard to be observant and plan ahead.
Same here, except 37 years London driving. The other day, when some clown moved from another lane and pinched my exit spot, was the first time I've ever stopped in a box junction (unless turning right).What happens is you have 2 lanes going into the box from the traffic lights but it (kind of, almost) immediately turns into a bus lane and a single lane when you get to the other side. So you get a traffic-light grand prix but the inside lane driver paps themself when they see the approaching bus lane and they lurch into the outside lane, causing all sorts of panic braking and the poor sod 3 cars back finds himself stopped in the middle of what was, 10 seconds ago, free-flowing traffic with what would be, once he got there, a clear exit. And then the lights change. That's my excuse anyway
Link should work, but the traffic is *never* as light as that ... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4780571,-0.16963...
bigandclever said:
I've been done twice at the same box junction in a similar manner, albeit 5 years apart.
What happens is you have 2 lanes going into the box from the traffic lights but it (kind of, almost) immediately turns into a bus lane and a single lane when you get to the other side. So you get a traffic-light grand prix but the inside lane driver paps themself when they see the approaching bus lane and they lurch into the outside lane, causing all sorts of panic braking and the poor sod 3 cars back finds himself stopped in the middle of what was, 10 seconds ago, free-flowing traffic with what would be, once he got there, a clear exit. And then the lights change. That's my excuse anyway
Link should work, but the traffic is *never* as light as that ... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4780571,-0.16963...
Shirley, everyone gets 'done' anyway, for passing the wrong side of a 'Keep Left' bollard?What happens is you have 2 lanes going into the box from the traffic lights but it (kind of, almost) immediately turns into a bus lane and a single lane when you get to the other side. So you get a traffic-light grand prix but the inside lane driver paps themself when they see the approaching bus lane and they lurch into the outside lane, causing all sorts of panic braking and the poor sod 3 cars back finds himself stopped in the middle of what was, 10 seconds ago, free-flowing traffic with what would be, once he got there, a clear exit. And then the lights change. That's my excuse anyway
Link should work, but the traffic is *never* as light as that ... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4780571,-0.16963...
Or does the Council fine itself for installing incorrect signage, I wonder?
Cliftonite said:
bad company said:
The councils rely on people just paying up and not bothering to appeal. Most do just that.
I successfully appealed a No Entry sign 'offence' in 2015. It's satisfying as I knew I was in the right but VERY time consuming so I understand why many just pay.
Please fill in the story here. I just love tales where the man-in-the-street gets one over an officious authority when it has made a cock-up! I successfully appealed a No Entry sign 'offence' in 2015. It's satisfying as I knew I was in the right but VERY time consuming so I understand why many just pay.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
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