Ground Rent demand
Discussion
Just binned off the purchase of our new build house as it was being sold as leasehold with a service charge. Curiously, the developer had little or no detail on what the charges included other than it was 'about' £600/yr!, or if we could buy the freehold at the end of the first 2 years. Dodged that bullet for sure!
Edited by shep1001 on Thursday 16th February 18:05
shep1001 said:
Just binned off the purchase of our new build house as it was being sold as leasehold with a service charge. Curiously, the developer had little or no detail on what the charges included other than it was 'about' £600/yr!, or if we could buy the freehold at the end of the first 2 years. Dodged that bullet for sure!
Why would a house have a service charge, other than if it's in private grounds with a private road as part of the development. Edited by shep1001 on Thursday 16th February 18:05
fido said:
Cold said:
What are the benefits for a homebuyer buying a leasehold property?
Cheaper. I suppose you also don't have to deal with the management of the leaseholds. I've never bought a flat before but reading all this would put me off a bit; would prefer at least a share of freehold.A flat MUST be leasehold. You can all own the freehold but MUST grant yourselves a lease otherwise it's not mortgageable.
A house being leasehold makes little difference to price. When the lease is defined at outset with costs stated for a period usually 999 years then it makes no difference you just pay a ground rent every year.
You do NOT pay a service charge unless there are communal grounds for a private development to maintain. If this is the case then the service charade and ground rent are paid to two different legal entities for completely different reasons. .
Gavia, you are in a privilaged postion, the type of lease you have is now RARE, the market has moved to a weird short lease with maintenance model.
This is why for every one like you , there are 20 like me that had a bad experience with lease hold. Im sure there are some lease hold houses that are fine, but most now days arent , thats a fact
This is why for every one like you , there are 20 like me that had a bad experience with lease hold. Im sure there are some lease hold houses that are fine, but most now days arent , thats a fact
brrapp said:
I'm so glad I'm in Scotland, it's so simple here, you hand over the cash and the house and land is yours forever. No further involvement with anyone else. I just can't understand why you can't have it as simple on the other side of the border.
Too many thieving developers (and other hanger-on)south of the border. Fastpedeller said:
Why would you want to buy on a leasehold basis? Come on then, tell me freehold isn't better!!
If you live in an area where 99% of houses are leasehold. If the house you want is leasehold.
You seem to think that houses are randomly leasehold then next door is freehold. This isn't the case.
Explain to me why a leasehold property with a ground rent that's defined for the next 999 years
Is so bad? I pay £2.60 a year in one of my houses and it can't increase. I have about 820 years left on the lease.
matjk said:
Gavia, you are in a privilaged postion, the type of lease you have is now RARE, the market has moved to a weird short lease with maintenance model.
This is why for every one like you , there are 20 like me that had a bad experience with lease hold. Im sure there are some lease hold houses that are fine, but most now days arent , thats a fact
No it's not rare. I provided a link to a major house builder explaining that all their houses are sold on a 999 year lease. I can provide more if needed. This is why for every one like you , there are 20 like me that had a bad experience with lease hold. Im sure there are some lease hold houses that are fine, but most now days arent , thats a fact
Gavia said:
And this is where the pedantry of PH becomes a burden.
Do you think that I could forfeit my 2 up 2 down terrace because the lease which was written in 1824 forbids any fornication between unmarried couples?
Who is being the pedant? Do you think that I could forfeit my 2 up 2 down terrace because the lease which was written in 1824 forbids any fornication between unmarried couples?
. I didn't reference the "formication" clause did I? I referenced the structural work & external alterations you've done without consent. You said there is nothing freeholders can do to stop you doing what you want. There is.
Like i say you've got away with it so good for you. There's thousands that don't. I don't care either way I just thought I'd offer a word of warning to people who read your post.
Gavia said:
Fastpedeller said:
Why would you want to buy on a leasehold basis? Come on then, tell me freehold isn't better!!
If you live in an area where 99% of houses are leasehold. If the house you want is leasehold.
You seem to think that houses are randomly leasehold then next door is freehold. This isn't the case.
Explain to me why a leasehold property with a ground rent that's defined for the next 999 years
Is so bad? I pay £2.60 a year in one of my houses and it can't increase. I have about 820 years left on the lease.
OMNIO said:
Who is being the pedant? . I didn't reference the "formication" clause did I?
I referenced the structural work & external alterations you've done without consent. You said there is nothing freeholders can do to stop you doing what you want. There is.
Like i say you've got away with it so good for you. There's thousands that don't. I don't care either way I just thought I'd offer a word of warning to people who read your post.
No, but you said that if I breached the terms of the lease then they could claim the property back. They can't, they won't and it simply doesn't happen. In fact you're more than welcome to contact the original house builder and tell them what I've done and see if they give two hoots. PM me for full details and copy me into your letter / email to them. . I didn't reference the "formication" clause did I? I referenced the structural work & external alterations you've done without consent. You said there is nothing freeholders can do to stop you doing what you want. There is.
Like i say you've got away with it so good for you. There's thousands that don't. I don't care either way I just thought I'd offer a word of warning to people who read your post.
Ditto on the work I've done. It simply doesn't happen. Show me one documented case where a freeholder has reclaimed a leasehold property due to someone doing some work on their house.
Edited by Gavia on Thursday 16th February 23:15
Gavia said:
OMNIO said:
Who is being the pedant? . I didn't reference the "formication" clause did I?
I referenced the structural work & external alterations you've done without consent. You said there is nothing freeholders can do to stop you doing what you want. There is.
Like i say you've got away with it so good for you. There's thousands that don't. I don't care either way I just thought I'd offer a word of warning to people who read your post.
No, but you said that if I breached the terms of the lease then they could claim the property back. They can't, they won't and it simply doesn't happen. . I didn't reference the "formication" clause did I? I referenced the structural work & external alterations you've done without consent. You said there is nothing freeholders can do to stop you doing what you want. There is.
Like i say you've got away with it so good for you. There's thousands that don't. I don't care either way I just thought I'd offer a word of warning to people who read your post.
Ditto on the work I've done. It simply doesn't happen. Show me one documented case where a freeholder has reclaimed a leasehold property due to someone doing some work on their house.
SystemParanoia said:
Gavia said:
OMNIO said:
Who is being the pedant? . I didn't reference the "formication" clause did I?
I referenced the structural work & external alterations you've done without consent. You said there is nothing freeholders can do to stop you doing what you want. There is.
Like i say you've got away with it so good for you. There's thousands that don't. I don't care either way I just thought I'd offer a word of warning to people who read your post.
No, but you said that if I breached the terms of the lease then they could claim the property back. They can't, they won't and it simply doesn't happen. . I didn't reference the "formication" clause did I? I referenced the structural work & external alterations you've done without consent. You said there is nothing freeholders can do to stop you doing what you want. There is.
Like i say you've got away with it so good for you. There's thousands that don't. I don't care either way I just thought I'd offer a word of warning to people who read your post.
Ditto on the work I've done. It simply doesn't happen. Show me one documented case where a freeholder has reclaimed a leasehold property due to someone doing some work on their house.
You need to understand the difference.
Fastpedeller said:
Gavia said:
Fastpedeller said:
Why would you want to buy on a leasehold basis? Come on then, tell me freehold isn't better!!
If you live in an area where 99% of houses are leasehold. If the house you want is leasehold.
You seem to think that houses are randomly leasehold then next door is freehold. This isn't the case.
Explain to me why a leasehold property with a ground rent that's defined for the next 999 years
Is so bad? I pay £2.60 a year in one of my houses and it can't increase. I have about 820 years left on the lease.
Gavia said:
Really? Do you seriously believe that? that would only work on the first sale post new build, after that the freeholder has zero interest in who owns it. Why does it matter if I have to pay £50 a year in ground rent? It's a pittance and has zero impact on my ownership or how I maintain / extend the house.
The ground rent is value is irrelevant, the issue I have is the amount of control that anonymous and in our case, a predatory third party has over my house, and for reasons that pre-date our purchase which we have had to get indemnified for. When I needed a new boiler, £150 for freeholder permission. Two new windows, £150 permission fee, kitchen renovation - that was a £300 fee because they wanted a fee for the kitchen and fee for the wall removal. Failure to obtain this permission puts us at risk of forfeiture, and as we found out it also puts any future buyer at risk too.
The alternative was £750-£2000 in legal fees to argue the case, and delaying the work for a few months while it was resolved.
I appreciate that not all freeholders/FH agents are the same, however my own experience would deter me from ever buying a leasehold house again.
Gavia said:
Fastpedeller said:
Gavia said:
Fastpedeller said:
Why would you want to buy on a leasehold basis? Come on then, tell me freehold isn't better!!
If you live in an area where 99% of houses are leasehold. If the house you want is leasehold.
You seem to think that houses are randomly leasehold then next door is freehold. This isn't the case.
Explain to me why a leasehold property with a ground rent that's defined for the next 999 years
Is so bad? I pay £2.60 a year in one of my houses and it can't increase. I have about 820 years left on the lease.
But if every potential buyer refused to buy a new leasehold property the developers would be forced to sell them freehold.
This may seem a bold statement (and potentially the developers would drop the price until someone bought them), but if NOBODY bought them the developers would have to change their ways. The issue IMHO is that the buyer doesn't have control over his land as someone else still owns it.
S11Steve said:
The ground rent is value is irrelevant, the issue I have is the amount of control that anonymous and in our case, a predatory third party has over my house, and for reasons that pre-date our purchase which we have had to get indemnified for.
When I needed a new boiler, £150 for freeholder permission. Two new windows, £150 permission fee, kitchen renovation - that was a £300 fee because they wanted a fee for the kitchen and fee for the wall removal. Failure to obtain this permission puts us at risk of forfeiture, and as we found out it also puts any future buyer at risk too.
The alternative was £750-£2000 in legal fees to argue the case, and delaying the work for a few months while it was resolved.
I appreciate that not all freeholders/FH agents are the same, however my own experience would deter me from ever buying a leasehold house again.
I've already accepted that there are some sharks out there, but the problem is not as widespread as people are making out. There are literally dozens of towns in the North West that are 90%+ leasehold without any of the issues being mentioned here. When I needed a new boiler, £150 for freeholder permission. Two new windows, £150 permission fee, kitchen renovation - that was a £300 fee because they wanted a fee for the kitchen and fee for the wall removal. Failure to obtain this permission puts us at risk of forfeiture, and as we found out it also puts any future buyer at risk too.
The alternative was £750-£2000 in legal fees to argue the case, and delaying the work for a few months while it was resolved.
I appreciate that not all freeholders/FH agents are the same, however my own experience would deter me from ever buying a leasehold house again.
I don't doubt that you're having problems, I just wanted to point out that there is a flip side to these issues and that the vast majority of leasehold properties are fine. There is no need to ask permission of the freeholder to do anything.
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