Council tax bill
Discussion
torqueofthedevil said:
You don't need to notify council when you stop living somewhere, you just stop paying. Just because he was one of the last known people to be there why does he owe for a time he wasn't there?
Yes...CT is not personal - it's by property. If the property wasn't claiming single-person occupancy, then everybody "at the property" is liable for the whole bill. If he "just walked away", then how do the council know he's no longer at that property? Don't say "Because he's somewhere else", because he could be at both.
There's a legal progression of who's responsible for the CT on a property. The tenant(s) are first. Was he still on the tenancy, or did he just walk away from that, too?
TooMany2cvs said:
torqueofthedevil said:
You don't need to notify council when you stop living somewhere, you just stop paying. Just because he was one of the last known people to be there why does he owe for a time he wasn't there?
Yes...CT is not personal - it's by property. If the property wasn't claiming single-person occupancy, then everybody "at the property" is liable for the whole bill. If he "just walked away", then how do the council know he's no longer at that property? Don't say "Because he's somewhere else", because he could be at both.
There's a legal progression of who's responsible for the CT on a property. The tenant(s) are first. Was he still on the tenancy, or did he just walk away from that, too?
As OP or his friend has been living elsewhere paying council tax, he can start by asking the Council to correct the records to show that he no longer lived at the property, as can be shown by the fact that he did live at xyz...... Make sure that he states that he has only recently been made aware of the inaccurate bill.
If that works the problem goes away. If it does not he may need to go to court and say the same thing. That may work or not.
As a landlord I frequently point out to couples taking up a tenancy that they are both responsible for the rental payments, council tax and utility payments, during and up to the end of the tenancy agreement/ tenancy, whichever is the latter.
In the OP’s instance, the Council Tax Bill should be settled, and either go after the ex girlfriend for half the amount of the Council Tax Bill, or put the same down to a bad experience.
Living in two, another location, is no excuse for not paying one property’s Council Tax Bill.
In the OP’s instance, the Council Tax Bill should be settled, and either go after the ex girlfriend for half the amount of the Council Tax Bill, or put the same down to a bad experience.
Living in two, another location, is no excuse for not paying one property’s Council Tax Bill.
Wings said:
As a landlord I frequently point out to couples taking up a tenancy that they are both responsible for the rental payments, council tax and utility payments, during and up to the end of the tenancy agreement/ tenancy, whichever is the latter.
In the OP’s instance, the Council Tax Bill should be settled, and either go after the ex girlfriend for half the amount of the Council Tax Bill, or put the same down to a bad experience.
Living in two, another location, is no excuse for not paying one property’s Council Tax Bill.
Wings is wrong on this occasion. There is a strict pecking order, and it is the 'resident' who is normally liable. As he will know at the end of the list the non resident owner is on the hook.In the OP’s instance, the Council Tax Bill should be settled, and either go after the ex girlfriend for half the amount of the Council Tax Bill, or put the same down to a bad experience.
Living in two, another location, is no excuse for not paying one property’s Council Tax Bill.
While you are living with your partner you are jointly and severally liable. If the OP has left his partner, and the property - he should no longer be liable.
surveyor said:
Wings is wrong on this occasion. There is a strict pecking order, and it is the 'resident' who is normally liable. As he will know at the end of the list the non resident owner is on the hook.
While you are living with your partner you are jointly and severally liable. If the OP has left his partner, and the property - he should no longer be liable.
I agree. If his name is on the tenancy then he remains liable for rent, he is not however liable for the council tax unless the property is vacant.While you are living with your partner you are jointly and severally liable. If the OP has left his partner, and the property - he should no longer be liable.
Proving that you don't live somewhere can of course be a challenge, especially if the electoral roll etc is not accurate.
Chrisgr31 said:
I agree. If his name is on the tenancy then he remains liable for rent, he is not however liable for the council tax unless the property is vacant.
Proving that you don't live somewhere can of course be a challenge, especially if the electoral roll etc is not accurate.
I agree with you on the former, but the latter you are wrong on, since a person has liability for paying Council Tax where they have a material interests in the property, EVEN if the person does NOT live in the property.Proving that you don't live somewhere can of course be a challenge, especially if the electoral roll etc is not accurate.
Material interest is defined by .6(2) of the Local Government Finance Act 1992, at under paragraph 6 (6)
and I quote “material interest” is defined as “a freehold interest or a leasehold interest which was granted for a term of six months or more.”.
Therefore if a person is named on a tenancy agreement, and they vacate the rental premises during a agreed tenancy period, then that person can, and will be held accountable by their local council authority for the Council Tax.
Wings said:
Chrisgr31 said:
I agree. If his name is on the tenancy then he remains liable for rent, he is not however liable for the council tax unless the property is vacant.
Proving that you don't live somewhere can of course be a challenge, especially if the electoral roll etc is not accurate.
I agree with you on the former, but the latter you are wrong on, since a person has liability for paying Council Tax where they have a material interests in the property, EVEN if the person does NOT live in the property.Proving that you don't live somewhere can of course be a challenge, especially if the electoral roll etc is not accurate.
Material interest is defined by .6(2) of the Local Government Finance Act 1992, at under paragraph 6 (6)
and I quote “material interest” is defined as “a freehold interest or a leasehold interest which was granted for a term of six months or more.”.
Therefore if a person is named on a tenancy agreement, and they vacate the rental premises during a agreed tenancy period, then that person can, and will be held accountable by their local council authority for the Council Tax.
a resident of the property who has a freehold interest in the whole or any part of it
a resident of the property who has a leasehold interest in the whole or part of it which is not inferior to another such resident leaseholder's interest
a resident who is a statutory or secure tenant of the whole or any part of the property
a resident who has a contractual license to occupy the whole or any part of the property
a resident of the property
the owner of the property
Note that the only non resident person who can liable is the owner of the property. His Girlfriend who was in residence, trumps all in any case.
surveyor said:
Note that the only non resident person who can liable is the owner of the property.
I disagree with this point as a tenancy holder who is not resident can be liable but only if there is no one actually resident.If no one is resident then you look at those who are entitled to be resident.
In this case the OPs friend is not resident, but their ex girlfriend is. The ex-girlfriend is therefore liable. End of.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/council-...
In my view if the tenancy agreement was still in place, and he was named on the agreement then he will still be liable. Up until the point that the tenancy agreement/tenancy ceased or he notified the council that he no longer lived there.
He should have informed the landlord and the council that he no longer lived there. If the girlfriend was still in occupation and now the sole tenant, firstly the tenancy agreement should be changed and secondly the council notified so that a single person discount could be applied to the council tax.
I note a couple of people saying that you do not have to inform the council you no longer live there. I ask you this, how would they know you have moved out if you do not tell them? They need to know the first and last dates of occupancy so that the correct council tax can be calculated. It is not sufficient to simply stop paying.
He should have informed the landlord and the council that he no longer lived there. If the girlfriend was still in occupation and now the sole tenant, firstly the tenancy agreement should be changed and secondly the council notified so that a single person discount could be applied to the council tax.
I note a couple of people saying that you do not have to inform the council you no longer live there. I ask you this, how would they know you have moved out if you do not tell them? They need to know the first and last dates of occupancy so that the correct council tax can be calculated. It is not sufficient to simply stop paying.
Yes they do need to know when you move out as otherwise they will keep charging unless someone else says they are liable. For our landlord clients we do notify councils when we become liable and when we cease to be liable, but are not obliged to tell them when we become liable. It is just easier if we do.
And I repeat council tax is a tax on occupation, if you are the occupier you are liable. It is only when no one is in occupation ?or all the occupiers are less than 18) that you need to start looking to se you is entitled to occupation.
And I repeat council tax is a tax on occupation, if you are the occupier you are liable. It is only when no one is in occupation ?or all the occupiers are less than 18) that you need to start looking to se you is entitled to occupation.
surveyor said:
Your still wrong.. The term is liable person. There is a strict pecking order....
...
Note that the only non resident person who can liable is the owner of the property. His Girlfriend who was in residence, trumps all in any case.
It should be clarified that "owner" in this case includes a tenant on an assured shorthold tenancy agreement with a minimum duration of 6 months. ...
Note that the only non resident person who can liable is the owner of the property. His Girlfriend who was in residence, trumps all in any case.
So, a tenant who vacates prior to the end of a 6 month fixed term tenancy is the "owner" for the purpose of CT liability.
Things get more complex if the tenancy has become periodic following the expiry of the fixed term. The case law on this discriminates between a statutory periodic tenancy (the default legal position if a tenant wishes to stay following a fixed term) and a contractual periodic tenancy (where the tenancy agreement permits the automatic extension if the tenancy). In the case of a statutory periodic tenancy, the tenant ceases to be the "owner", in the case of a contractual periodic tenancy they remain the "owner".
WatchfulEye said:
surveyor said:
Your still wrong.. The term is liable person. There is a strict pecking order....
...
Note that the only non resident person who can liable is the owner of the property. His Girlfriend who was in residence, trumps all in any case.
It should be clarified that "owner" in this case includes a tenant on an assured shorthold tenancy agreement with a minimum duration of 6 months. ...
Note that the only non resident person who can liable is the owner of the property. His Girlfriend who was in residence, trumps all in any case.
So, a tenant who vacates prior to the end of a 6 month fixed term tenancy is the "owner" for the purpose of CT liability.
Things get more complex if the tenancy has become periodic following the expiry of the fixed term. The case law on this discriminates between a statutory periodic tenancy (the default legal position if a tenant wishes to stay following a fixed term) and a contractual periodic tenancy (where the tenancy agreement permits the automatic extension if the tenancy). In the case of a statutory periodic tenancy, the tenant ceases to be the "owner", in the case of a contractual periodic tenancy they remain the "owner".
KevinCamaroSS said:
surveyor said:
But the owner in this instance is pipped by the remaining resident. OP merely has to persuade the Charging Authority that he did indeed leave residency 3 years ago.
If his name is/was still on the lease he will likely have a hard time proving he is not liable.But if he has for instance a Bill starting from a new address, and maybe a tenancy agreement it will all add to the documentary story.
Charging Authority's can and do go back over the years and correct bills. Sometimes they take a bit of convincing.
surveyor said:
Proving it may be hard - but if he is not resident, and his partner was then he is not responsible. Ultimately he may have to go and tell a Magistrate his story.
But if he has for instance a Bill starting from a new address, and maybe a tenancy agreement it will all add to the documentary story.
Charging Authority's can and do go back over the years and correct bills. Sometimes they take a bit of convincing.
If the person vacating the rental property is a named person on the tenancy agreement, and vacates within the fixed term of that tenancy agreement, and has failed to reach an early surrender of the tenancy agreement with the owner, landlord and/or agent of the rental property, then that person still has a material interest in the property, and is therefore liable in part for Council Tax.But if he has for instance a Bill starting from a new address, and maybe a tenancy agreement it will all add to the documentary story.
Charging Authority's can and do go back over the years and correct bills. Sometimes they take a bit of convincing.
Appeals against Council Tax are heard and decided by the Upper Tribunal Administrative Appeal s Chamber, there are many such appeals, decisions made on disputes between tenants, landlords, local authorities. I offer below one such appeal/decision, the same which makes referral to several similar appeals.
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/AAC/2013/617.h...
Wings said:
surveyor said:
Proving it may be hard - but if he is not resident, and his partner was then he is not responsible. Ultimately he may have to go and tell a Magistrate his story.
But if he has for instance a Bill starting from a new address, and maybe a tenancy agreement it will all add to the documentary story.
Charging Authority's can and do go back over the years and correct bills. Sometimes they take a bit of convincing.
If the person vacating the rental property is a named person on the tenancy agreement, and vacates within the fixed term of that tenancy agreement, and has failed to reach an early surrender of the tenancy agreement with the owner, landlord and/or agent of the rental property, then that person still has a material interest in the property, and is therefore liable in part for Council Tax.But if he has for instance a Bill starting from a new address, and maybe a tenancy agreement it will all add to the documentary story.
Charging Authority's can and do go back over the years and correct bills. Sometimes they take a bit of convincing.
Appeals against Council Tax are heard and decided by the Upper Tribunal Administrative Appeal s Chamber, there are many such appeals, decisions made on disputes between tenants, landlords, local authorities. I offer below one such appeal/decision, the same which makes referral to several similar appeals.
http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKUT/AAC/2013/617.h...
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