Small claims court questions.
Discussion
Hi
I have a few questions. Flying in the face of advice from forum reference me other thread I am looking at the option of taking the DVLA to small claims court and need a few answers.
1: If i launch a claim where will it be held? Locally to me or at a place of DVLA's choosing?
2: If the claim fails do I have any form of judgement against me similar to a CCJ?
3: I have been advised my appeal against the fine has been rejected as I predicted it would.
I am therefore going to pay it. Is there anything I need to do in this regard?
4: When I make payment do I need to make any form of declaration such as that payment is made under duress or something. Would seem odd but thinking ahead a magistrate may ask why I paid and did not allow it to go to court to argue it if I disagreed ?
As to question 4 and 2.
I cannot allow the DVLA to take me to court as if I lose the case I have to declare it to my employer who in turn has to declare it to gov secure clearing and its very likely my clearance will be revoked and as such I am out of a job.
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
Any help or advice is much appreciated.
I have a few questions. Flying in the face of advice from forum reference me other thread I am looking at the option of taking the DVLA to small claims court and need a few answers.
1: If i launch a claim where will it be held? Locally to me or at a place of DVLA's choosing?
2: If the claim fails do I have any form of judgement against me similar to a CCJ?
3: I have been advised my appeal against the fine has been rejected as I predicted it would.
I am therefore going to pay it. Is there anything I need to do in this regard?
4: When I make payment do I need to make any form of declaration such as that payment is made under duress or something. Would seem odd but thinking ahead a magistrate may ask why I paid and did not allow it to go to court to argue it if I disagreed ?
As to question 4 and 2.
I cannot allow the DVLA to take me to court as if I lose the case I have to declare it to my employer who in turn has to declare it to gov secure clearing and its very likely my clearance will be revoked and as such I am out of a job.
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
Any help or advice is much appreciated.
If it's a case of rolling over and letting the DVLA screw you, or risking losing you job and winning a fight against them in court.... seems like a no-brainer.
Seems weird that a civil court issue would affect security clearance though. (But I have almost no knowledge of SC procedures)
Seems weird that a civil court issue would affect security clearance though. (But I have almost no knowledge of SC procedures)
I would be very wary about this, particularly given the employment risk.
The SCC is great for civil cases, in this case you are taking on the Government, albeit an agency.
Some lawyers will give you a free 1/2Hr consultation, but I would be inclined to pay the fine. Tell DVLA very clearly why you are disputing the fine and are rejecting their considered judgement and then copy everything to your MP. DoT, Prime Minister, if you are absolutely certain that you can PROVE your innocence.
And then keep plugging away.
The SCC is great for civil cases, in this case you are taking on the Government, albeit an agency.
Some lawyers will give you a free 1/2Hr consultation, but I would be inclined to pay the fine. Tell DVLA very clearly why you are disputing the fine and are rejecting their considered judgement and then copy everything to your MP. DoT, Prime Minister, if you are absolutely certain that you can PROVE your innocence.
And then keep plugging away.
Are you saying you're considering not Defending the Court case they will bring, but instead Admitting it, paying it, and then filing a claim of your own to recoup the cost?
If so, why wouldn't you just file a defence or counterclaim at the time? It'll be cheaper, and if your defence fails you'd still be able to pay within 28 days of the Judgment to prevent it being registered by the Registry Trust. If it's not registered, there shouldn't be any reason why it'd affect your security clearance (though as said, I can't see any reason why a civil case would affect this anyway).
If so, why wouldn't you just file a defence or counterclaim at the time? It'll be cheaper, and if your defence fails you'd still be able to pay within 28 days of the Judgment to prevent it being registered by the Registry Trust. If it's not registered, there shouldn't be any reason why it'd affect your security clearance (though as said, I can't see any reason why a civil case would affect this anyway).
Meoricin said:
Are you saying you're considering not Defending the Court case they will bring, but instead Admitting it, paying it, and then filing a claim of your own to recoup the cost?
If so, why wouldn't you just file a defence or counterclaim at the time? It'll be cheaper, and if your defence fails you'd still be able to pay within 28 days of the Judgment to prevent it being registered by the Registry Trust. If it's not registered, there shouldn't be any reason why it'd affect your security clearance (though as said, I can't see any reason why a civil case would affect this anyway).
Basically I have 2 choices.If so, why wouldn't you just file a defence or counterclaim at the time? It'll be cheaper, and if your defence fails you'd still be able to pay within 28 days of the Judgment to prevent it being registered by the Registry Trust. If it's not registered, there shouldn't be any reason why it'd affect your security clearance (though as said, I can't see any reason why a civil case would affect this anyway).
Pay fine and walk away.
Advise DVLA I would like them to take me to court to argue my case.
As said I really dont know why or even if a judgement will affect my clearing however I have spoken with our head of SC for the company who advised me there was a risk I could lose my clearance if I let them take me to court and I lost regardless of whether anything is filed as I still have to declare the issue to my company who in turn have to declare it to SC clearing.
As such I cannot take a risk of allowing them to take me to court.
My thought therefore was to pay the fine and then try get all my money back through small claims where its not a claim against me which means theoretically even if i lose I dont need to declare it to my company or sc clearing.
frankenstein12 said:
Hi
I have a few questions. Flying in the face of advice from forum reference me other thread I am looking at the option of taking the DVLA to small claims court and need a few answers.
1: If i launch a claim where will it be held? Locally to me or at a place of DVLA's choosing?
2: If the claim fails do I have any form of judgement against me similar to a CCJ?
3: I have been advised my appeal against the fine has been rejected as I predicted it would.
I am therefore going to pay it. Is there anything I need to do in this regard?
4: When I make payment do I need to make any form of declaration such as that payment is made under duress or something. Would seem odd but thinking ahead a magistrate may ask why I paid and did not allow it to go to court to argue it if I disagreed ?
As to question 4 and 2.
I cannot allow the DVLA to take me to court as if I lose the case I have to declare it to my employer who in turn has to declare it to gov secure clearing and its very likely my clearance will be revoked and as such I am out of a job.
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
Any help or advice is much appreciated.
I'm confused. What are you claiming from them?I have a few questions. Flying in the face of advice from forum reference me other thread I am looking at the option of taking the DVLA to small claims court and need a few answers.
1: If i launch a claim where will it be held? Locally to me or at a place of DVLA's choosing?
2: If the claim fails do I have any form of judgement against me similar to a CCJ?
3: I have been advised my appeal against the fine has been rejected as I predicted it would.
I am therefore going to pay it. Is there anything I need to do in this regard?
4: When I make payment do I need to make any form of declaration such as that payment is made under duress or something. Would seem odd but thinking ahead a magistrate may ask why I paid and did not allow it to go to court to argue it if I disagreed ?
As to question 4 and 2.
I cannot allow the DVLA to take me to court as if I lose the case I have to declare it to my employer who in turn has to declare it to gov secure clearing and its very likely my clearance will be revoked and as such I am out of a job.
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
Any help or advice is much appreciated.
This is, I presume, the other thread you're referring to:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
If you pay the out-of-court settlement, then you are admitting that you did what you're being accused of. There's no claim to be made there. You'll just be laughed out and your case rejected. You don't get a CCJ - you just waste your fee. If you win, DVLA get ordered to pay you. If they don't pay, they get a CCJ lodged against them.
You've appealed and been turned down. If they take it to court, then they're claiming the money from you. You would be asking a court to second-guess a different court in exactly the same case. If you lose and don't pay, THEN you get a CCJ.
(technically, not quite true - you get the judgement the instant you lose, but it's not recorded if you pay in full within 30 days)
And, no, I do not believe for one second that somebody's security clearance was revoked because they were a witness in a court case.
esxste said:
If it's a case of rolling over and letting the DVLA screw you, or risking losing you job and winning a fight against them in court.... seems like a no-brainer.
Seems weird that a civil court issue would affect security clearance though. (But I have almost no knowledge of SC procedures)
Unfortunately I am so fSeems weird that a civil court issue would affect security clearance though. (But I have almost no knowledge of SC procedures)
ked off with the stress and financial loss caused to me by the DVLA I don't really want to just roll over and let them get away with it. This has so far cost me £500 and a huge amount of stress.I don't know if I will win as my case is not water tight. The DVLA are making it about my V5 whereas I am making it about due process.
To me the V5 issue is entirely separate. The DVLA failed to notify me they were cancelling my road tax. The REASON they cancelled it is irrelevant. They had my details my name, my address, my bank account details, my email address etc.
If they had notified me of their intent to cancel the road tax the entire issue would have been dealt with and the car would have remained road legal. They are trying to use the fact the car was not registered as an excuse for their actions but that is like putting the goods in the cart ahead of the horse. Its just not relevant imo.
This is in my opinion simply a case of them making easy money.
Whatever comes from this they are now in my sights.Having had to look into it and finding out they answer to no one there is no independent review board no formal appeals or complaints process etc I am going to spend time trying to raise awareness of this and try get it changed.
This has taught me that ANY communication with the DVLA needs to be carefully recorded whether its a phone call an email or a letter.
frankenstein12 said:
Unfortunately I am so fked off with the stress and financial loss caused to me by the DVLA I don't really want to just roll over and let them get away with it. This has so far cost me £500 and a huge amount of stress.
Regardless, if there is a serious and credible threat to your job, you should place that concern above all else before deciding whether to continue. ked off with the stress and financial loss caused to me by the DVLA I don't really want to just roll over and let them get away with it. This has so far cost me £500 and a huge amount of stress.esxste said:
frankenstein12 said:
Unfortunately I am so fked off with the stress and financial loss caused to me by the DVLA I don't really want to just roll over and let them get away with it. This has so far cost me £500 and a huge amount of stress.
Regardless, if there is a serious and credible threat to your job, you should place that concern above all else before deciding whether to continue. ked off with the stress and financial loss caused to me by the DVLA I don't really want to just roll over and let them get away with it. This has so far cost me £500 and a huge amount of stress.I need to work out what implications are should I take them to court and lose the case. I also need to check my SC department to see their view and whether it changes anything if I take the DVLA to court and lose versus the DVLA taking me to court and me losing.
Aside from that I need to work out if I need to make any form of statement when paying the fine to show if i go to court I only paid to avoid being taken to court. I suppose I would also need a letter from my company SC department advising the reasons I have gone this route.
It'll cost you £25 to bring your claim online or £35 if you get your claim issued out of your local Court.
The Defendant (in this case the DVLA) will have the choice to move the case to their local Court which I presume will be close to Swansea.
Unless the DVLA bring a counterclaim, you won't be at risk of an adverse CCJ. You maybe at risk of limited costs if you lose and the Court deem that you were being a tt in bringing the claim in the first place.
If the matter process to a hearing, you have to pay a further £25.
So, £50 and a whole load of crap to deal with between issuing and a claim being listed. Plus you will have to travel to Wales to have your day in Court.
If I were you, I'd jack it off and just chill the fk out.
The Defendant (in this case the DVLA) will have the choice to move the case to their local Court which I presume will be close to Swansea.
Unless the DVLA bring a counterclaim, you won't be at risk of an adverse CCJ. You maybe at risk of limited costs if you lose and the Court deem that you were being a t
t in bringing the claim in the first place. If the matter process to a hearing, you have to pay a further £25.
So, £50 and a whole load of crap to deal with between issuing and a claim being listed. Plus you will have to travel to Wales to have your day in Court.
If I were you, I'd jack it off and just chill the f
k out. frankenstein12 said:
Hi
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
That is absolute bullsThe company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
t. So you're telling me, someone who gave a statement to the Police and were probably then summonsed to attend a trial and had to attend to avoid being in contempt of Court lost their job because of that? I'm not even calling custard, I'm calling a whole dairy on this one. KungFuPanda said:
frankenstein12 said:
Hi
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
That is absolute bullsThe company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
t. So you're telling me, someone who gave a statement to the Police and were probably then summonsed to attend a trial and had to attend to avoid being in contempt of Court lost their job because of that? I'm not even calling custard, I'm calling a whole dairy on this one. I have SC and the OP is talking complete b
ks. I have friends with DV as well and being a material witness in a case is never going to matter to either. Even a ccj (which you wouldn't get even if you lost the case and then paid in the 30 days) is unlikely to matter with SC. DV I would imagine is a different kettle of fish as the checks and balances for DV are considerably higher although some of the reprobates I know still mange to get DV. frankenstein12 said:
I don't know if I will win as my case is not water tight.
It's as watertight as a shagged-out colander.frankenstein12 said:
The DVLA are making it about my V5 whereas I am making it about due process.
It's about both. They are the same.frankenstein12 said:
To me the V5 issue is entirely separate. The DVLA failed to notify me they were cancelling my road tax. The REASON they cancelled it is irrelevant.
The reason your VED DD was cancelled is VERY relevant. You were not, and never had been, the registered keeper of that vehicle.TooMany2cvs said:
And, no, I do not believe for one second that somebody's security clearance was revoked because they were a witness in a court case.
perhaps it could if he was compelled by the judge to say who he was employed by and what he did, if it had any bearing on the case. just a thought, it's really the only way I could think it happening.I'm a bit confused, why would the outcome (either way) of a civil court case affect SC clearance? If you lose and don't pay, then yes, but otherwise, no.
Likewise, being a witness in a crime.
Even low level crime sometimes doesn't impact being granted SC clearance, nevermind 'non crimes' like traffic offences.
OP I think you're being fed duff info by your 'SC' department.
Likewise, being a witness in a crime.
Even low level crime sometimes doesn't impact being granted SC clearance, nevermind 'non crimes' like traffic offences.
OP I think you're being fed duff info by your 'SC' department.
KungFuPanda said:
frankenstein12 said:
Hi
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
That is absolute bullsThe company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
t. So you're telling me, someone who gave a statement to the Police and were probably then summonsed to attend a trial and had to attend to avoid being in contempt of Court lost their job because of that? I'm not even calling custard, I'm calling a whole dairy on this one. Edited by frankenstein12 on Tuesday 21st February 23:53
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