Small claims court questions.

[frankenstein12]

TooMany2cvs said:

frankenstein12 said:

I don't know if I will win as my case is not water tight.

It's as watertight as a shagged-out colander.

frankenstein12 said:

The DVLA are making it about my V5 whereas I am making it about due process.

It's about both. They are the same.

frankenstein12 said:

To me the V5 issue is entirely separate. The DVLA failed to notify me they were cancelling my road tax. The REASON they cancelled it is irrelevant.

The reason your VED DD was cancelled is VERY relevant. You were not, and never had been, the registered keeper of that vehicle.

It is utterly irrelevent whether I was the registered keeper or not. The DVLA cancelled the road tax direct debit without notification. The reason they cancelled it is irrelevant. I appreciate you find that hard to understand but it really is that simple.

They created the reason I got penalised by failing to notify me that the tax was being cancelled. They had all my details and they were all linked to the vehicle on the DVLA's system. The only time they were given those details were when I sent in the new keepers documents and when I set up the direct debit to pay the road tax prior to sending in the new keepers documents.

The fact that when DVLA Enforcement sent the letter to my home address with my full name including my middle initials demanding I pay a fine the first line states " Our records indicate you were the vehicles keeper at the time of the offence" .

If their records showed I was the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the offence then their records would also have shown I was the keeper when they cancelled the tax. As such they could and should have notified me that they were cancelling the tax. As such the whole situation would have been avoided and the V5 problem would also have been resolved (well not quite since they lost the V62 I sent when I got clamped as well).

It would be like your credit card company cancelling your monthly direct debit without telling you and then fining you for non payment of the credit card. The reason for cancellation is not relevant. It is the failure to notify of cancellation that is relevant.

If you dont know something has been cancelled how can you avoid a penalty?

[frankenstein12]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

I find it amazing that people think its acceptable that although they had all my details linked to the car they failed to notify me they were cancelling the tax and then fined me for no tax. Maybe I am crazy.

If this thread is indicative of the stupidity I face then I guess there is little point in trying to go to court over it.

[frankenstein12]

frankenstein12 said:

I find it amazing that people think its acceptable that although they had all my details linked to the car they failed to notify me they were cancelling the tax and then fined me for no tax. Maybe I am crazy.

If this thread is indicative of the stupidity I face then I guess there is little point in trying to go to court over it.

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

You are right. It IS my responsibility to make sure my car is registered and taxed. While I failed on the registration side i did not fail on the tax side. I taxed the car and the tax was being taken monthly by direct debit.

The DVLA cancelled the debit not me and they did so without notification even though they had all the details required to notify me. End of.

I will simply pay the fine and not waste time trying to pursue them to get my money back.

[frankenstein12]

End thread please.

[TurricanII]

Small claims court is a massive amount if stress if you do the work in preparing your questions and research. I am no lawyer but I took a lawyer to small claims (got a favourable judgement) and in prep watched some vlogs by a UK Lawer on small claims procedure.

Some things of concern from vlogs - YOU don't choose small claims track. The case is assigned to a track. If the issue could take more than a few hours to hear and have massive implications then, even though the value is small, the case could go to big boys court with lawyers, costs, days of time etc

Furrther, if the other party gets the case set aside before it gets allocated to the small claims track then you might be liable for costs.

In short, choose life!

[Red Devil]

frankenstein12 said:

frankenstein12 said:

I find it amazing that people think its acceptable that although they had all my details linked to the car they failed to notify me they were cancelling the tax and then fined me for no tax. Maybe I am crazy.

If this thread is indicative of the stupidity I face then I guess there is little point in trying to go to court over it.

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

You are right. It IS my responsibility to make sure my car is registered and taxed. While I failed on the registration side i did not fail on the tax side. I taxed the car and the tax was being taken monthly by direct debit.

The DVLA cancelled the debit not me and they did so without notification even though they had all the details required to notify me. End of.

I'm not sure you understand how Direct Debit works. It is an instruction given by you to authorise collection of monies from your account by a third party. As it was you that gave it, is for you to cancel it by notifying your bank not to accept any further requests from the said third party (it is desirable to notify the latter as well to avoid it making an unnecessary collection request which then gets bounced). For the DD to be cancelled without your prior consent is a breach of the Scheme Rules. What the collecting organisation can do is simply delete (whether by accident or design) your data from the monthly BACS batch submission file. Only after receiving your authority can it include the relevant final collection code. A DD remains live on the bank's record until either it receives cancellation instructions or no collections have been made over an uninterrupted period of 13 months. When successive collections have been missed it is flagged as dormant until the 13 months have elapsed.

You admitted in the other thread that you don't check your bank statements (nor did you follow up on the missing V5C). If you had you would have noticed that the DD wasn't there when it should have been well before your car was clamped or the DVLA came after you for the OCS. If you can't adapt to keeping on top of important records then maybe you're not cut out to be a part time trader. Using a DD to pay for anything which is legally required rather than simply contractual requires vigilance. While I agree with you that failing to tell you is irksome, everyone with a modicum of experience knows that dealing with this unaccountable Agency means you have to be at the top of your game.

frankenstein12 said:

I will simply pay the fine and not waste time trying to pursue them to get my money back.

That's the first sensible view you have taken on either thread. If you had tried taking the DVLA to court over this I will bet the judge would have asked why you failed to do some very simple checks. Then ruled in favour of the defendant.

[KevinCamaroSS]

frankenstein12 said:

I can tell you for a fact thats what happened as he was one of my engineers. I dont know why and whether it was simple clerical error on SC clearing divisions side but it happened and I dont want to take that chance.He didnt lose his job as he is a PAYE member of staff and was moved to other duties. I on the other hand am a contractor and would be very unlikely to be moved to other duties I would simply be replaced.

Edited by frankenstein12 on Tuesday 21st February 23:53

What you actually mean is that this is what the engineer told you. Not that it is fact.

[TooMany2cvs]

KevinCamaroSS said:

frankenstein12 said:

I can tell you for a fact thats what happened as he was one of my engineers. I dont know why and whether it was simple clerical error on SC clearing divisions side but it happened and I dont want to take that chance.He didnt lose his job as he is a PAYE member of staff and was moved to other duties. I on the other hand am a contractor and would be very unlikely to be moved to other duties I would simply be replaced.

What you actually mean is that this is what the engineer told you. Not that it is fact.

Indeed.

I can think of a very obvious alternative reason why the person in question had his clearance revoked after appearing in court for a bar fight case.

[Markbarry1977]

I've got to be honest I don't check my monthly direct debits EVERY month and if the dvla just cancelled the DD I don't think I would notice it. I must have 20+ DD coming out throuout the month.

I do appreciate it is ultimately my responsibility but surely if the dvla assisted in this cock up then they could wave the fine.

Oh hold on I'm sure the dvla never make a mistake. A 40 year old friend of mine had motorbike removed along with other stuff basically all grandfather rights removed after a change of address meant getting a new card. Even though they know he had a motorbike registered in his name. Had receipts and insurance certificates for his bike going back years. Could see what date he passed his test so should have grandfather rights they refused to accept it was there fault. Thankfully he had certified true copies of his license as he was military and had to present his licence annually to MT. Eventually after starting the legal process someone with an IQ above that of a sloth at the DVLA looked into it and rectified the issue (although they refused to offer an apology or admit fault).

I do feel for you OP but I think your on to a losing battle.

[frankenstein12]

TooMany2cvs said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

frankenstein12 said:

I can tell you for a fact thats what happened as he was one of my engineers. I dont know why and whether it was simple clerical error on SC clearing divisions side but it happened and I dont want to take that chance.He didnt lose his job as he is a PAYE member of staff and was moved to other duties. I on the other hand am a contractor and would be very unlikely to be moved to other duties I would simply be replaced.

What you actually mean is that this is what the engineer told you. Not that it is fact.

Indeed.

I can think of a very obvious alternative reason why the person in question had his clearance revoked after appearing in court for a bar fight case.

I have a fair number of engineers who work for me. I have on occasion caught one or two lying to me however it is normally the same people. This engineer was not one of them.

Certainly I cannot be 100% certain there was not more to it than he stated though our security department stated he was telling the truth according to info they had.