1st March - 6points for mobile phone use at the wheel
Discussion
croyde said:
Plus if the cops start doing people at McDonalds, they will very quickly lose any respect and people will just flout the law.
Do you really think the police give two hoots about what the public think of them?They will do exactly as they please. Should this turn out to be true (and I'm unconvinced at the moment), and should the police decide that a 'crackdown on mobile phone use' is required, you can bet your life they'll be prowling round McDonalds.
zarjaz1991 said:
croyde said:
Plus if the cops start doing people at McDonalds, they will very quickly lose any respect and people will just flout the law.
Do you really think the police give two hoots about what the public think of them?They will do exactly as they please. Should this turn out to be true (and I'm unconvinced at the moment), and should the police decide that a 'crackdown on mobile phone use' is required, you can bet your life they'll be prowling round McDonalds.
My usual routine is get in the car, start it so it's lubricating and warming and then fiddle with my phone to find music or set up the sat nav. I've not even touched any pedals or even put it in gear yet.
I keep reminding myself that that is illegal now so I have to turn the car off carry on fiddling with the phone then turn the car back on.
I keep reminding myself that that is illegal now so I have to turn the car off carry on fiddling with the phone then turn the car back on.
The thing that annoys me about this new law (beyond the frothing at the mouth CUT OFF THEIR HANDS nature of the increased penalty) is that it explicitly states that its effective when stopped at a traffic light. This is clearly not self consistent with the intent of the law to reduce road deaths.
Using mobile phone whilst moving. Potential consequence is a crash, possibly resulting in injury or death. Therefore harsh penalty, I suppose we can get behind that.
Using mobile phone whilst static at traffic lights, Potential consequence: mild irritation for people behind if you fail to move off immediately. Therefore HARSH PENALTY.
It just doesnt fit. I dont know why they dont just state in the law "using handheld phone whilst car is moving" as the case where the law applies. It would also avoid the nonsense case where you could be done under this law for using your phone whilst clearly parked but with the engine running ... which is even more farcical.
To answer the immediate argument of "If people use their phone while stopped then it just tempts people to keep using their phone while they pull away". These people would immediately fall foul of the revised wording, as they are moving, its a non-issue.
Using mobile phone whilst moving. Potential consequence is a crash, possibly resulting in injury or death. Therefore harsh penalty, I suppose we can get behind that.
Using mobile phone whilst static at traffic lights, Potential consequence: mild irritation for people behind if you fail to move off immediately. Therefore HARSH PENALTY.
It just doesnt fit. I dont know why they dont just state in the law "using handheld phone whilst car is moving" as the case where the law applies. It would also avoid the nonsense case where you could be done under this law for using your phone whilst clearly parked but with the engine running ... which is even more farcical.
To answer the immediate argument of "If people use their phone while stopped then it just tempts people to keep using their phone while they pull away". These people would immediately fall foul of the revised wording, as they are moving, its a non-issue.
Traffic lights: cyclist pulls up nearside, you don't notice as you're distracted. Driver behind sounds horn as you've not noticed lights change so you quickly pull away and turn left....
Perhaps the intention is to encourage people to concentrate on what they're doing - driving, which includes observing what other people are doing.
A significant part of which is being aware of people who aren't concentrating because they're using their phone.
Perhaps the intention is to encourage people to concentrate on what they're doing - driving, which includes observing what other people are doing.
A significant part of which is being aware of people who aren't concentrating because they're using their phone.
Sticks. said:
Traffic lights: cyclist pulls up nearside, you don't notice as you're distracted. Driver behind sounds horn as you've not noticed lights change so you quickly pull away and turn left....
Perhaps the intention is to encourage people to concentrate on what they're doing - driving, which includes observing what other people are doing.
A significant part of which is being aware of people who aren't concentrating because they're using their phone.
This is neither as likely to happen, nor as likely to cause injury as using the phone whilst moving, It also falls very much under existing due care and attention laws. It doesnt really warrant a driving ban does it ...Perhaps the intention is to encourage people to concentrate on what they're doing - driving, which includes observing what other people are doing.
A significant part of which is being aware of people who aren't concentrating because they're using their phone.
Clem2k3 said:
The thing that annoys me about this new law (beyond the frothing at the mouth CUT OFF THEIR HANDS nature of the increased penalty) is that it explicitly states that its effective when stopped at a traffic light. This is clearly not self consistent with the intent of the law to reduce road deaths.
Using mobile phone whilst moving. Potential consequence is a crash, possibly resulting in injury or death. Therefore harsh penalty, I suppose we can get behind that.
Using mobile phone whilst static at traffic lights, Potential consequence: mild irritation for people behind if you fail to move off immediately. Therefore HARSH PENALTY.
It just doesnt fit. I dont know why they dont just state in the law "using handheld phone whilst car is moving" as the case where the law applies. It would also avoid the nonsense case where you could be done under this law for using your phone whilst clearly parked but with the engine running ... which is even more farcical.
To answer the immediate argument of "If people use their phone while stopped then it just tempts people to keep using their phone while they pull away". These people would immediately fall foul of the revised wording, as they are moving, its a non-issue.
The law and it's application seams perfectly fair to me. Introduce a grey areas suggesting it's ok for the driver to be playing Pokémon Go at traffic lights, and people will just keep pushing the relaxation until it has no effect. The law is quite clear, it's just the same as it always has been and it really isn't a problem. The problem is with those who can't follow simple laws, or who think they don't apply to them.Using mobile phone whilst moving. Potential consequence is a crash, possibly resulting in injury or death. Therefore harsh penalty, I suppose we can get behind that.
Using mobile phone whilst static at traffic lights, Potential consequence: mild irritation for people behind if you fail to move off immediately. Therefore HARSH PENALTY.
It just doesnt fit. I dont know why they dont just state in the law "using handheld phone whilst car is moving" as the case where the law applies. It would also avoid the nonsense case where you could be done under this law for using your phone whilst clearly parked but with the engine running ... which is even more farcical.
To answer the immediate argument of "If people use their phone while stopped then it just tempts people to keep using their phone while they pull away". These people would immediately fall foul of the revised wording, as they are moving, its a non-issue.
It really isn't that hard to not play with your phone whilst driving.
The Surveyor said:
The law and it's application seams perfectly fair to me. Introduce a grey areas suggesting it's ok for the driver to be playing Pokémon Go at traffic lights, and people will just keep pushing the relaxation until it has no effect. The law is quite clear, it's just the same as it always has been and it really isn't a problem. The problem is with those who can't follow simple laws, or who think they don't apply to them.
It really isn't that hard to not play with your phone whilst driving.
Introduce a law that is so widely written and it dilutes the purpose of the law. I am not saying the law is not clear, I am saying that by including cases that clearly wont lead to death weakens the whole argument of "its got a big penalty because there is a big risk".It really isn't that hard to not play with your phone whilst driving.
I find its very similar logic to the habit of extending the wait at railway crossings and road crossings until they are ridiculous. Everyone knows there is a 20 minute wait before a train comes, so the temptation is to jump the barrier. There is no excuse to do this but then there was no need to introduce the temptation either.
I think that if laws are written sensibly and clearly there to deal with a problem and not overextended then people are more likely to follow them
The Surveyor said:
The law and it's application seams perfectly fair to me. Introduce a grey areas suggesting it's ok for the driver to be playing Pokémon Go at traffic lights, and people will just keep pushing the relaxation until it has no effect. The law is quite clear, it's just the same as it always has been and it really isn't a problem. The problem is with those who can't follow simple laws, or who think they don't apply to them.
It really isn't that hard to not play with your phone whilst driving.
On another note the whole reducing the use a phone to "playing pokemon go" or "updating their facebook" is unhelpful. What about the person stopped a traffic light quickly firing off a text to let someone know theyre running late. It reduces the stress of the driver, this can only be a good thing. I am not saying all phone use is warranted (certainly none whilst moving) but to say its all frivolous is equally untrue.It really isn't that hard to not play with your phone whilst driving.
Clem2k3 said:
On another note the whole reducing the use a phone to "playing pokemon go" or "updating their facebook" is unhelpful. What about the person stopped a traffic light quickly firing off a text to let someone know theyre running late. It reduces the stress of the driver, this can only be a good thing. I am not saying all phone use is warranted (certainly none whilst moving) but to say its all frivolous is equally untrue.
Reduces the stress of driving, really? IF it's essential, buy a hands free kit and phone them, keeping your eyes on the road. Otherwise, be organised, text them when you're leaving to say you're on your way. What do you think people did before mobile phones? You can either take responsibility for your and others' safety, or make excuses for compromising it.
As for nearside cyclists, isn't this a major issue with lorries? It's always a good idea to keep an eye on what other road users are doing, some of them are pretty unpredictable. Is your chance of seeing them increased or decreased by using your phone?
Imho
Sticks. said:
You can either take responsibility for your and others' safety, or make excuses for compromising it.
I am not entirely in disagreement with you, dont get me wrong, but I can clearly and quickly think of a few cases where nobody is put at risk (a quick update text to say you are late) which arent frivolous and put nobody in serious risk but could lead to a heavy penalty. Its that kind of disjoint that I do not like. It makes the whole "its for your safety" thing a bit of a lie if there are simple cases where safety is not at risk.
The example of being done for using your phone parked at Maccy D's with the engine running is another. It is clearly and explicitly covered by this new law as illegal, and there is no real excuse for being done (and no real risk of it happening either) but it dilutes the message!
Clem2k3 said:
The example of being done for using your phone parked at Maccy D's with the engine running is another. It is clearly and explicitly covered by this new law as illegal, and there is no real excuse for being done (and no real risk of it happening either) but it dilutes the message!
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