1st March - 6points for mobile phone use at the wheel
Discussion
SS2. said:
Choose your battles carefully.
Yeah I realise I am on a losing one there. Possibly also on the definition of a road.I just wanted to highlight that off the back of a video of a guy running a truck into the back of a family a law has had a harsh penalty attached to it (so far so good) which could result in someone losing their license for sending a quick message at a traffic light...
No excuse for it ... but the penalty doesnt fit the crime in the latter case.
Clem2k3 said:
The Surveyor said:
The law and it's application seams perfectly fair to me. Introduce a grey areas suggesting it's ok for the driver to be playing Pokémon Go at traffic lights, and people will just keep pushing the relaxation until it has no effect. The law is quite clear, it's just the same as it always has been and it really isn't a problem. The problem is with those who can't follow simple laws, or who think they don't apply to them.
It really isn't that hard to not play with your phone whilst driving.
On another note the whole reducing the use a phone to "playing pokemon go" or "updating their facebook" is unhelpful. What about the person stopped a traffic light quickly firing off a text to let someone know theyre running late. It reduces the stress of the driver, this can only be a good thing. I am not saying all phone use is warranted (certainly none whilst moving) but to say its all frivolous is equally untrue.It really isn't that hard to not play with your phone whilst driving.
To some, keeping their facebook updated is genuinely more important than looking at the road, (the same as the girl I followed into work this morning weaving all over the road whilst she put on her make-up). The more you dumb this down to allow the 'quick text' the more people will flout this very basic law. The message should be that when your driving, what's happening on the road is the most important thing at that time. The public information films are one way of getting their safety message across, the increased penalty is the other.
The Surveyor said:
Easy, phone them. That's what a hands free phone does very well.
To some, keeping their facebook updated is genuinely more important than looking at the road, (the same as the girl I followed into work this morning weaving all over the road whilst she put on her make-up). The more you dumb this down to allow the 'quick text' the more people will flout this very basic law. The message should be that when your driving, what's happening on the road is the most important thing at that time. The public information films are one way of getting their safety message across, the increased penalty is the other.
My proposed rewording would still catch the people that are actually a danger. If the car is not moving, then it cannot be a danger (unless somebody decides to stop on the motorway to send their text ...). I can see that I am too far in the minority on wanting laws to be worded to punish dangerous actions proportionately to their risk. To some, keeping their facebook updated is genuinely more important than looking at the road, (the same as the girl I followed into work this morning weaving all over the road whilst she put on her make-up). The more you dumb this down to allow the 'quick text' the more people will flout this very basic law. The message should be that when your driving, what's happening on the road is the most important thing at that time. The public information films are one way of getting their safety message across, the increased penalty is the other.
Clem2k3 said:
.....
I think that if laws are written sensibly and clearly there to deal with a problem and not overextended then people are more likely to follow them
But that's the point, the law is very clear, very simple, and very sensibly written IMHO. Suggesting that it's OK when waiting at a junction or other traffic lights is just over-complicating it. I think that if laws are written sensibly and clearly there to deal with a problem and not overextended then people are more likely to follow them
By the nature of it being Law, it needs to be firm, concise, and enforceable. Otherwise it's pointless
The Surveyor said:
But that's the point, the law is very clear, very simple, and very sensibly written IMHO. Suggesting that it's OK when waiting at a junction or other traffic lights is just over-complicating it.
By the nature of it being Law, it needs to be firm, concise, and enforceable. Otherwise it's pointless
But it also needs to be based in sense and logic. It needs to be a law that has an aim (reducing deaths) and be clearly targeted at achieving that aim. Adding the extra line of "this includes when at traffic lights" actually makes the law more complicated and dilutes the message by including a case that is not targeted at safety in any clear manner.By the nature of it being Law, it needs to be firm, concise, and enforceable. Otherwise it's pointless
Which part of firm concise and enforceable is broken by adding the line "when the car is moving" to it?
In my opinion that makes a law clearly intended to target a risk. Which in turn makes it more reasonable to the people who are subject to it, which in turn makes them more likely to pay attention to it.
The Surveyor said:
Clem2k3 said:
.....
I think that if laws are written sensibly and clearly there to deal with a problem and not overextended then people are more likely to follow them
But that's the point, the law is very clear, very simple, and very sensibly written IMHO. Suggesting that it's OK when waiting at a junction or other traffic lights is just over-complicating it. I think that if laws are written sensibly and clearly there to deal with a problem and not overextended then people are more likely to follow them
By the nature of it being Law, it needs to be firm, concise, and enforceable. Otherwise it's pointless
This one may need to go around the circle again.
The Surveyor said:
Clem2k3 said:
.....
I think that if laws are written sensibly and clearly there to deal with a problem and not overextended then people are more likely to follow them
But that's the point, the law is very clear, very simple, and very sensibly written IMHO. Suggesting that it's OK when waiting at a junction or other traffic lights is just over-complicating it. I think that if laws are written sensibly and clearly there to deal with a problem and not overextended then people are more likely to follow them
By the nature of it being Law, it needs to be firm, concise, and enforceable. Otherwise it's pointless
telecat said:
Really, then why do people still think they are OK Stopped with the Engine but all controls disengaged?? Personally My own opinion is that it is "just" another in car distraction. Worse than changing radio stations but not as bad as Kids playing up or being sick/obnoxious/arguing in the back of cars. NO it is not good that people have been killed by others not concentrating on the road but it is not the only distraction ONLY the easiest to pick up.
My worry is that the authorities are clamping down on screen use in cars and that has to be a good thing especially since the youth seem to think it's a god given right to use them wherever and whenever!! BUT what really boils my piss is the car makers who are now seeming to embrace this fascination for screens and are starting introducing them into cars, from Corsas with Wifi and internet apps on the dash encouraging distraction to the other end of the scale where even adjusting the heating temperature requires a degree in computing!!!! As below!! Tell me that is safe to use but a mobile phone is a killer?!
Clem2k3 said:
The Surveyor said:
But that's the point, the law is very clear, very simple, and very sensibly written IMHO. Suggesting that it's OK when waiting at a junction or other traffic lights is just over-complicating it.
By the nature of it being Law, it needs to be firm, concise, and enforceable. Otherwise it's pointless
But it also needs to be based in sense and logic. It needs to be a law that has an aim (reducing deaths) and be clearly targeted at achieving that aim. Adding the extra line of "this includes when at traffic lights" actually makes the law more complicated and dilutes the message by including a case that is not targeted at safety in any clear manner.By the nature of it being Law, it needs to be firm, concise, and enforceable. Otherwise it's pointless
Which part of firm concise and enforceable is broken by adding the line "when the car is moving" to it?
In my opinion that makes a law clearly intended to target a risk. Which in turn makes it more reasonable to the people who are subject to it, which in turn makes them more likely to pay attention to it.
Watering down the principles just makes it more confusing for the wider public who are by and large either confused, or too clever for their own good (over simplification...) If you say it's safe to pick up a phone and update your sat-nav whilst waiting for lights to change, somebody else will say it's safe to update their faceache profile whilst waiting at a give-way, somebody else will then say it's safe to send a quick email whilst waiting for a gap to turn right at a box-junction, then somebody else will say it's safe to search for a Pokémon whilst waiting for the lolly-pop lady to finish on the school crossing, somebody else will then argue it's safe to reply to a text whilst pulled over to let a fire engine through... etc etc
Yes, you can argue that you're a low risk because you're not moving, but shouldn't you really be concentrating on the surrounding road rather than your handset?
The Mad Monk said:
Clem2k3 said:
which could result in someone losing their license
I have some good news for you.Nobody will lose their license under the new laws/penalties.
jaf01uk said:
The Mad Monk said:
Clem2k3 said:
which could result in someone losing their license
I have some good news for you.Nobody will lose their license under the new laws/penalties.
jaf01uk said:
The Mad Monk said:
Clem2k3 said:
which could result in someone losing their license
I have some good news for you.Nobody will lose their license under the new laws/penalties.
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