Motorist with 62 penalty points legally allowed to drive
Discussion
62 points is impressive and I'm not quite sure how you amass that, though as said, if you get caught multiple times on one journey then it could certainly be possible. E.g my route to hospital passes at least 6 fixed cameras, if I was frantically driving my sick child to hospital at 3:00 am I aspect I might get 'caught' more than once. I think the existing rules are ok with having the limit at 13 points, having to appeal to the courts to appeal automatic bans is fair enough and eliminate disproportionate effects on people's lives due to minor offences.
Let's fact it some limits are pretty random, and many others are designed to improve safety in busy/rush hour periods, when you do through thes e limits in quiet times they are just a bit bonkers. If traveling in unfamiliar areas I could easily see being caught out by these as you generally adjust you driving to the conditions automatically and secondly by the imposed limit.
Let's fact it some limits are pretty random, and many others are designed to improve safety in busy/rush hour periods, when you do through thes e limits in quiet times they are just a bit bonkers. If traveling in unfamiliar areas I could easily see being caught out by these as you generally adjust you driving to the conditions automatically and secondly by the imposed limit.
Yep - here's mine. https://www.instantstreetview.com/@52.332088,0.526...
Travelling at 52/53mph (twice in 2 days)
Travelling at 52/53mph (twice in 2 days)
62 points could be done when you have a specialist solicitor on your side and you get multiple offences taken in one single hearing. Plead your 'hardship' card and it applies to all. To me this is taking the p but it is legal.
As far as taxi drivers or other professional drivers go I would not allow any hardship plea. They drive for a living and should stay within the rules at all times.
If you plead hardship it should only apply to a single instance, so, a maximum of, say, 18 points before an automatic ban is applied.
As far as taxi drivers or other professional drivers go I would not allow any hardship plea. They drive for a living and should stay within the rules at all times.
If you plead hardship it should only apply to a single instance, so, a maximum of, say, 18 points before an automatic ban is applied.
yajeed said:
Yep - here's mine. https://www.instantstreetview.com/@52.332088,0.526...
Travelling at 52/53mph (twice in 2 days)
And you got points for that?Travelling at 52/53mph (twice in 2 days)
yajeed said:
Yep - here's mine. https://www.instantstreetview.com/@52.332088,0.526...
Travelling at 52/53mph (twice in 2 days)
Started looking for your camera and further back down the road there was a car on its roof with medics attending! Travelling at 52/53mph (twice in 2 days)
KevinCamaroSS said:
62 points could be done when you have a specialist solicitor on your side and you get multiple offences taken in one single hearing. Plead your 'hardship' card and it applies to all. To me this is taking the p but it is legal.
As far as taxi drivers or other professional drivers go I would not allow any hardship plea. They drive for a living and should stay within the rules at all times.
If you plead hardship it should only apply to a single instance, so, a maximum of, say, 18 points before an automatic ban is applied.
Agree 100%. For professional drivers such as taxi drivers, the hardship plea should be even harder to demonstrate on the basis that they know that their license is the only thing putting food on the table. As far as taxi drivers or other professional drivers go I would not allow any hardship plea. They drive for a living and should stay within the rules at all times.
If you plead hardship it should only apply to a single instance, so, a maximum of, say, 18 points before an automatic ban is applied.
There was a motoring solicitor on the radio earlier giving some background on the hardship plea examples and she confirmed that you can only use a plea on one occasion. If you get caught again, you have to present a different hardship criteria. If that's the case, the guy still driving with 62 points is really difficult to understand.
I was talking to a local solicitor 18 months ago who specialises in driving cases and he was telling me that in his view the points system in simply unfair, past its use by date and is now just a revenue generator.
His view is this:- points were brought in as a means of dealing with motorists with non-serious offences, and inevitably speeding was the main target. However, at that time there were no speed cameras and police had to follow a speeder and pull them over to issue a ticket, so only few drivers were caught more than once and totting up was not common and speeders with 12 points were unheard of. However the game changed with fixed and mobile cameras and now millions of drivers have points and many have multiple points.
A good example was in the paper today about a woman done for a fairly modest speeding offence by a camera van, but she was unaware of it, dropped off what she was delivering and came back 10 minutes later and done again. Yes, she was speeding, but 6 points on the same stretch of road only a few minute apart, hardly fair in my view. Having said that 62 points really is barking mad,and probably a reflection of driver's state of mind so he should be off the road.
His view is this:- points were brought in as a means of dealing with motorists with non-serious offences, and inevitably speeding was the main target. However, at that time there were no speed cameras and police had to follow a speeder and pull them over to issue a ticket, so only few drivers were caught more than once and totting up was not common and speeders with 12 points were unheard of. However the game changed with fixed and mobile cameras and now millions of drivers have points and many have multiple points.
A good example was in the paper today about a woman done for a fairly modest speeding offence by a camera van, but she was unaware of it, dropped off what she was delivering and came back 10 minutes later and done again. Yes, she was speeding, but 6 points on the same stretch of road only a few minute apart, hardly fair in my view. Having said that 62 points really is barking mad,and probably a reflection of driver's state of mind so he should be off the road.
dcb said:
Speeding tickets are issued by the millions per year in the UK.
There is a balance to be made.
Given the excessively strong camera based enforcement of nonsensical speed limits these days,
do you really want 5 % of UK drivers off the road with bans for trivial speeding ?
I'd rather have folks concentrating on what they are doing at 80 mph than bored
senseless at 60 mph, but UK Gov seems to think that safe driving is driving slowly.
If you can't hold your speed, or spot obvious signs and bright yellow boxes- would you want someone with such lax awareness skills on a repeated basis on the street?There is a balance to be made.
Given the excessively strong camera based enforcement of nonsensical speed limits these days,
do you really want 5 % of UK drivers off the road with bans for trivial speeding ?
I'd rather have folks concentrating on what they are doing at 80 mph than bored
senseless at 60 mph, but UK Gov seems to think that safe driving is driving slowly.
Bunfighter said:
If you can't hold your speed, or spot obvious signs and bright yellow boxes- would you want someone with such lax awareness skills on a repeated basis on the street?
We could make an exception for those caught only by mobile enforcement if you like.That seems reasonable.
TorqueVR said:
I was talking to a local solicitor 18 months ago who specialises in driving cases and he was telling me that in his view the points system in simply unfair, past its use by date and is now just a revenue generator.
His view is this:- points were brought in as a means of dealing with motorists with non-serious offences, and inevitably speeding was the main target. However, at that time there were no speed cameras and police had to follow a speeder and pull them over to issue a ticket, so only few drivers were caught more than once and totting up was not common and speeders with 12 points were unheard of. However the game changed with fixed and mobile cameras and now millions of drivers have points and many have multiple points.
A good example was in the paper today about a woman done for a fairly modest speeding offence by a camera van, but she was unaware of it, dropped off what she was delivering and came back 10 minutes later and done again. Yes, she was speeding, but 6 points on the same stretch of road only a few minute apart, hardly fair in my view. Having said that 62 points really is barking mad,and probably a reflection of driver's state of mind so he should be off the road.
Very fair, IMO.His view is this:- points were brought in as a means of dealing with motorists with non-serious offences, and inevitably speeding was the main target. However, at that time there were no speed cameras and police had to follow a speeder and pull them over to issue a ticket, so only few drivers were caught more than once and totting up was not common and speeders with 12 points were unheard of. However the game changed with fixed and mobile cameras and now millions of drivers have points and many have multiple points.
A good example was in the paper today about a woman done for a fairly modest speeding offence by a camera van, but she was unaware of it, dropped off what she was delivering and came back 10 minutes later and done again. Yes, she was speeding, but 6 points on the same stretch of road only a few minute apart, hardly fair in my view. Having said that 62 points really is barking mad,and probably a reflection of driver's state of mind so he should be off the road.
She should stick to the speed limit.
Bunfighter said:
Ah OK.
Why? Camera vans aren't invisible. On my usual run there are big signs up before.
On my runs through Scotland, Peaks and Lakes roads I don't panic/almost get caught.
Unless you're the Six Million Dollar Man you can't tell what they are until it's too late IF you actually have to be concerned about what they are. It isn't much of a boast to say anybody caught by them wasn't paying attention if you only travel at sub-80 anyway, as you were never going to get a ticket in the first place.Why? Camera vans aren't invisible. On my usual run there are big signs up before.
On my runs through Scotland, Peaks and Lakes roads I don't panic/almost get caught.
Bunfighter said:
You regularly drive at over 80 on A and B roads?
Not a problem if you've had formal driver training and you have recognised talent. However a John Doe in a warm-to-hot German car?
No.
I regularly drive at way over 80 on all types of roads provided they don't have pedestrians, cyclists or horses on them. Or they are urban.Not a problem if you've had formal driver training and you have recognised talent. However a John Doe in a warm-to-hot German car?
No.
It hasn't presented any problems so far bar the fact it's often illegal.
spookly said:
You are surely having a laugh? North Somerset and Somerset have a grand total of one active fixed camera. They also, IIRC, have 2 mobile camera vans. Yes, they park in places where they are most likely to catch people, but they also publish a weekly list of where they'll be hinding on the scamera partnership website. Avon and Somerset have it better than most areas by a very long margin. Every time I visit relatives in Dorset and Hampshire it is notable for the massive number of cameras.
Simple, keep to the road limit, sorted.hornetrider said:
62 is ridiculous but I do think the current number of 12 is too low. A driving ban can be life changing and with the recent proliferation of cameras everywhere making being caught a few mph over a limit so much more likely, I think the ban criteria needs to move up a few. Maybe 18?
Maybe 18? A hell of a lot more than that, please.Having heard a police traffic driver decribe Highways England's abuse of temporary speed limit powers as "cash traps" and having witnessed a lot of ambiguous and stupid use of variable limits in the early hours on new four-lane-no-hard-shoulder motorways, a lot of people are going to suffer consequences that are not deserved.
It's nothing less than a bloody disgrace.
Irritating to see those idiots at BRAKE making a nuisance of themselves over nothing again, to keep themselves in the picture. Why any news medium pays attention to them is beyond me.
Vipers said:
Simple, keep to the road limit, sorted.
As in my previous post, I've seen a few cameras flash in the early hours where the variable limit was ambiguous. I held the low limit in lane 4, all others technically closed, but not obviously so. If I had held 40 in lane 4 for long (as required), I would have been a serious hazard in the confusion, so I had no choice but to break the temporary limit.This has happened to me four times on the M1 between Sheffield and Leeds in the past 6 months.
So, NOT sorted.
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