Hit and run, third party who's trader claiming vehicle sold
Discussion
kiethton said:
The garage has a lien over the car to compensate for labour to date (it's not free to estimate and converse with insurance co's - it takes time) and the fact that parts, ordered in on your/insurance co's instruction may not be refundable.
That is true but the garage cannot legally stop the OP from removing his car.
I am really not being unreasonable TBH. Two months since the accident and they garage have been disgusting with their lack of customer servicing and relaying exactly what's going on with the car.
I instructed them to carry out the repairs to the car not the insurers so even though the insurers are paying for the repair, overall I am their customer but I haven't been treated like one.
The chap who did the first estimate and did the further estimate did not let me know about the additional damage to the car and only told my insurers about it - that's bang out of order, I only knew about the car being a potential total loss when my ACM file handler notified me that the garage told them this, and when I spoke to the chap at the garage, he sounded completely shocked that I knew and wanted to know who told me..
I told them what was going on with the engine, it didn't start, various lights appeared on the dashboard in regards to the brakes/abs pump etc as soon as they had the car and before they even looked at it.
The car wouldn't start, they should of done a full inspection before submitting any kind of invoice to the insurance company because these components that I mentioned to them, topped with the car not starting means only an idiot would only just inspect visually from the front of the car and don't bothering doing a full check looking underneath the car and getting down to the bottom to what's going on with all these lights on dashboard and working out exactly why the car won't start...
The engine has damage that is visible from viewing the car when they finally put it on the ramp for the second estimate. The engine can be seen to be slumped below from the undercarriage, that's a unforgivable schoolboy error and should of been picked up on when inspecting the car first time round.
In my opinion, they knew full and well the true extent of the damage but they didn't disclose everything until things were all ready ordered so the insurance co will just say - just carry on with the work.. No no no.
They should of been honest from the start and they didn't, they were only thinking about one thing, making money on the job.
I've lost faith in them, I've lost faith on them in the ability to carry out the required repairs to the car. They are a bunch of fraudsters and chancers and if it wasn't me constantly chasing them and the insurers getting extremely mad to sort it out I probably would be without the car for additional amount of months!!
Of course bodyshops come back with additional repair costs when it comes to repairing a car however this is usually only a couple hundred quid more.. the new invoice went from 7300, to £11,900 after doing their checks properly.
Not my fault that they didn't check the car out properly first time round and they ordered £4000 worth of parts. They won't get a penny off me and I will be taking my car out of that place without paying so. They say they want £4000 plus £300 for labour costs and I'd be willing to pay just their £300 costs - and they are very lucky I am offering them that with them trying to fob me off and trying to rip my insurers off by by not being honest first time round with the full extent of the damage!
I instructed them to carry out the repairs to the car not the insurers so even though the insurers are paying for the repair, overall I am their customer but I haven't been treated like one.
The chap who did the first estimate and did the further estimate did not let me know about the additional damage to the car and only told my insurers about it - that's bang out of order, I only knew about the car being a potential total loss when my ACM file handler notified me that the garage told them this, and when I spoke to the chap at the garage, he sounded completely shocked that I knew and wanted to know who told me..
I told them what was going on with the engine, it didn't start, various lights appeared on the dashboard in regards to the brakes/abs pump etc as soon as they had the car and before they even looked at it.
The car wouldn't start, they should of done a full inspection before submitting any kind of invoice to the insurance company because these components that I mentioned to them, topped with the car not starting means only an idiot would only just inspect visually from the front of the car and don't bothering doing a full check looking underneath the car and getting down to the bottom to what's going on with all these lights on dashboard and working out exactly why the car won't start...
The engine has damage that is visible from viewing the car when they finally put it on the ramp for the second estimate. The engine can be seen to be slumped below from the undercarriage, that's a unforgivable schoolboy error and should of been picked up on when inspecting the car first time round.
In my opinion, they knew full and well the true extent of the damage but they didn't disclose everything until things were all ready ordered so the insurance co will just say - just carry on with the work.. No no no.
They should of been honest from the start and they didn't, they were only thinking about one thing, making money on the job.
I've lost faith in them, I've lost faith on them in the ability to carry out the required repairs to the car. They are a bunch of fraudsters and chancers and if it wasn't me constantly chasing them and the insurers getting extremely mad to sort it out I probably would be without the car for additional amount of months!!
Of course bodyshops come back with additional repair costs when it comes to repairing a car however this is usually only a couple hundred quid more.. the new invoice went from 7300, to £11,900 after doing their checks properly.
Not my fault that they didn't check the car out properly first time round and they ordered £4000 worth of parts. They won't get a penny off me and I will be taking my car out of that place without paying so. They say they want £4000 plus £300 for labour costs and I'd be willing to pay just their £300 costs - and they are very lucky I am offering them that with them trying to fob me off and trying to rip my insurers off by by not being honest first time round with the full extent of the damage!
captainhook said:
I am really not being unreasonable TBH. Two months since the accident and they garage have been disgusting with their lack of customer servicing and relaying exactly what's going on with the car.
I instructed them to carry out the repairs to the car not the insurers so even though the insurers are paying for the repair, overall I am their customer but I haven't been treated like one.
Contract is between the insurer and the repairing garage, the insurer is their customer
The chap who did the first estimate and did the further estimate did not let me know about the additional damage to the car and only told my insurers about it - that's bang out of order, I only knew about the car being a potential total loss when my ACM file handler notified me that the garage told them this, and when I spoke to the chap at the garage, he sounded completely shocked that I knew and wanted to know who told me..
I told them what was going on with the engine, it didn't start, various lights appeared on the dashboard in regards to the brakes/abs pump etc as soon as they had the car and before they even looked at it.
The car wouldn't start, they should of done a full inspection before submitting any kind of invoice to the insurance company because these components that I mentioned to them, topped with the car not starting means only an idiot would only just inspect visually from the front of the car and don't bothering doing a full check looking underneath the car and getting down to the bottom to what's going on with all these lights on dashboard and working out exactly why the car won't start...
The engine has damage that is visible from viewing the car when they finally put it on the ramp for the second estimate. The engine can be seen to be slumped below from the undercarriage, that's a unforgivable schoolboy error and should of been picked up on when inspecting the car first time round.
In my opinion, they knew full and well the true extent of the damage but they didn't disclose everything until things were all ready ordered so the insurance co will just say - just carry on with the work.. No no no.
They should of been honest from the start and they didn't, they were only thinking about one thing, making money on the job.
I've lost faith in them, I've lost faith on them in the ability to carry out the required repairs to the car. They are a bunch of fraudsters and chancers and if it wasn't me constantly chasing them and the insurers getting extremely mad to sort it out I probably would be without the car for additional amount of months!!
Of course bodyshops come back with additional repair costs when it comes to repairing a car however this is usually only a couple hundred quid more.. the new invoice went from 7300, to £11,900 after doing their checks properly. Cant always price for all repairs until the vehicle is stripped
Not my fault that they didn't check the car out properly first time round and they ordered £4000 worth of parts. They won't get a penny off me and I will be taking my car out of that place without paying so. They say they want £4000 plus £300 for labour costs and I'd be willing to pay just their £300 costs - and they are very lucky I am offering them that with them trying to fob me off and trying to rip my insurers off by by not being honest first time round with the full extent of the damage! You wont have a choice they can keep your vehicle until parts , costs etc are paid for in full, your best bet would be to buy the parts and get the bodyshop unfortunante enough to get your custom to use them to repair your car to below your obviously ridiculous standards
I instructed them to carry out the repairs to the car not the insurers so even though the insurers are paying for the repair, overall I am their customer but I haven't been treated like one.
Contract is between the insurer and the repairing garage, the insurer is their customer
The chap who did the first estimate and did the further estimate did not let me know about the additional damage to the car and only told my insurers about it - that's bang out of order, I only knew about the car being a potential total loss when my ACM file handler notified me that the garage told them this, and when I spoke to the chap at the garage, he sounded completely shocked that I knew and wanted to know who told me..
I told them what was going on with the engine, it didn't start, various lights appeared on the dashboard in regards to the brakes/abs pump etc as soon as they had the car and before they even looked at it.
The car wouldn't start, they should of done a full inspection before submitting any kind of invoice to the insurance company because these components that I mentioned to them, topped with the car not starting means only an idiot would only just inspect visually from the front of the car and don't bothering doing a full check looking underneath the car and getting down to the bottom to what's going on with all these lights on dashboard and working out exactly why the car won't start...
The engine has damage that is visible from viewing the car when they finally put it on the ramp for the second estimate. The engine can be seen to be slumped below from the undercarriage, that's a unforgivable schoolboy error and should of been picked up on when inspecting the car first time round.
In my opinion, they knew full and well the true extent of the damage but they didn't disclose everything until things were all ready ordered so the insurance co will just say - just carry on with the work.. No no no.
They should of been honest from the start and they didn't, they were only thinking about one thing, making money on the job.
I've lost faith in them, I've lost faith on them in the ability to carry out the required repairs to the car. They are a bunch of fraudsters and chancers and if it wasn't me constantly chasing them and the insurers getting extremely mad to sort it out I probably would be without the car for additional amount of months!!
Of course bodyshops come back with additional repair costs when it comes to repairing a car however this is usually only a couple hundred quid more.. the new invoice went from 7300, to £11,900 after doing their checks properly. Cant always price for all repairs until the vehicle is stripped
Not my fault that they didn't check the car out properly first time round and they ordered £4000 worth of parts. They won't get a penny off me and I will be taking my car out of that place without paying so. They say they want £4000 plus £300 for labour costs and I'd be willing to pay just their £300 costs - and they are very lucky I am offering them that with them trying to fob me off and trying to rip my insurers off by by not being honest first time round with the full extent of the damage! You wont have a choice they can keep your vehicle until parts , costs etc are paid for in full, your best bet would be to buy the parts and get the bodyshop unfortunante enough to get your custom to use them to repair your car to below your obviously ridiculous standards
Actually they have hold no legal right to my car. I am the owner. Get your facts right before you start spouting rubbish and look at the bigger picture.
Like I said, the further extent of damage found was clear beforehand. They only looked at the front of the car and went by the damaged areas as an estimate. The engine would not start, lights on the dashboard stated that there were various mechanical issues with the car yet they failed to declare this on the first instance on the quote, ordering parts without taking all of this into account leaves them open for the blame for the amount of parts ordered, no one else fault but theirs and their incompetence.
Had they put the car on the ramp that any competent assessor would, they would seen that the engine is sitting on a funny angle, damaged by looking under the undercarriage. Period.
Like I said, the further extent of damage found was clear beforehand. They only looked at the front of the car and went by the damaged areas as an estimate. The engine would not start, lights on the dashboard stated that there were various mechanical issues with the car yet they failed to declare this on the first instance on the quote, ordering parts without taking all of this into account leaves them open for the blame for the amount of parts ordered, no one else fault but theirs and their incompetence.
Had they put the car on the ramp that any competent assessor would, they would seen that the engine is sitting on a funny angle, damaged by looking under the undercarriage. Period.
captainhook said:
Actually they have hold no legal right to my car. I am the owner. Get your facts right before you start spouting rubbish and look at the bigger picture.
Put your handbag down, and try to be less emotional.The garage is being paid by the insurer. The garage only cares about what the insurer tells them. They aren't there to serve you. They have no contract with you, and have no obligation to make you happy with the process (nor, arguably, the output).
I appreciate that bad service is frustrating (and part of an overall stressful scenario), but it's causing you to lose sight of the true process. If you want things to happen more quickly, then your first port of call needs to be with your insurer - the one who you have a contract with.
They absolutely have a legal right to 'hold' your car until you instruct your insurer otherwise (by cancelling your contract). You have ceded control of your car to your insurers, as per the terms of your contract, while the process is being carried out. You either cancel your contract and ask for the car to be returned, or complain to your insurer to speed up the process.
Edited by C70R on Tuesday 4th April 13:49
Just a bit of an update, after months of being messed around it seems like we have come to a satisfactory response.
The car will be a write off, the engineer has stated absoloutely no way the car will be repaired at that valuation and they will ask the bodyshop for a breakdown of the repair costs to decide what a category the car will be labeled.
Just waiting on the cars valuation and how mch it will cost to buy it back - hope they don't damage it further in spite.
I still feel like the bodyshop need to know what exactly what I feel about them in a form of a review online because they absolutely tried it on.
The car will be a write off, the engineer has stated absoloutely no way the car will be repaired at that valuation and they will ask the bodyshop for a breakdown of the repair costs to decide what a category the car will be labeled.
Just waiting on the cars valuation and how mch it will cost to buy it back - hope they don't damage it further in spite.
I still feel like the bodyshop need to know what exactly what I feel about them in a form of a review online because they absolutely tried it on.
captainhook said:
Just a bit of an update, after months of being messed around it seems like we have come to a satisfactory response.
The car will be a write off, the engineer has stated absoloutely no way the car will be repaired at that valuation and they will ask the bodyshop for a breakdown of the repair costs to decide what a category the car will be labeled.
Just waiting on the cars valuation and how mch it will cost to buy it back - hope they don't damage it further in spite.
I still feel like the bodyshop need to know what exactly what I feel about them in a form of a review online because they absolutely tried it on.
Don't buy it back , that is allThe car will be a write off, the engineer has stated absoloutely no way the car will be repaired at that valuation and they will ask the bodyshop for a breakdown of the repair costs to decide what a category the car will be labeled.
Just waiting on the cars valuation and how mch it will cost to buy it back - hope they don't damage it further in spite.
I still feel like the bodyshop need to know what exactly what I feel about them in a form of a review online because they absolutely tried it on.
captainhook said:
Actually they have hold no legal right to my car. I am the owner. Get your facts right before you start spouting rubbish and look at the bigger picture.
Wrong they can http://www.fsp-law.com/articles/can-a-dealer-keep-... I only have my own repair shop!
Like I said, the further extent of damage found was clear beforehand. They only looked at the front of the car and went by the damaged areas as an estimate. The engine would not start, lights on the dashboard stated that there were various mechanical issues with the car yet they failed to declare this on the first instance on the quote, ordering parts without taking all of this into account leaves them open for the blame for the amount of parts ordered, no one else fault but theirs and their incompetence.
Had they put the car on the ramp that any competent assessor would, they would seen that the engine is sitting on a funny angle, damaged by looking under the undercarriage. Period.
If you have had this attitude towards either the garage or the insurers I can see why they arent particularly rushing to sort it for youWrong they can http://www.fsp-law.com/articles/can-a-dealer-keep-... I only have my own repair shop!
Like I said, the further extent of damage found was clear beforehand. They only looked at the front of the car and went by the damaged areas as an estimate. The engine would not start, lights on the dashboard stated that there were various mechanical issues with the car yet they failed to declare this on the first instance on the quote, ordering parts without taking all of this into account leaves them open for the blame for the amount of parts ordered, no one else fault but theirs and their incompetence.
Had they put the car on the ramp that any competent assessor would, they would seen that the engine is sitting on a funny angle, damaged by looking under the undercarriage. Period.
TwistingMyMelon said:
Don't buy it back , that is all
I shall see what they say first but if it's anymore than 3k to buy it back then absoloutely no way would I touch it. At 3k I would, I could buy the parts required to get it back on the road for less than £2000.Edited by captainhook on Tuesday 4th April 19:36
robdcfc said:
If you have had this attitude towards either the garage or the insurers I can see why they arent particularly rushing to sort it for you
Oh so you own your own repair shop do you?! You must be like the garage in question, robbing the insurers for repairs that are not needed or like my case quoting for repairs needed, whilst withholding the true value of the repair bill in the first instance, getting the insurers into a 'trap' as you've already ordered parts so they are comittmented in carrying out the repair where had they known the true value of repair wouldn't of bothered!You are quoting an article that does not apply to my situation, quit being a smartarse.
"If the garage carries out repairs and this results in an improvement to the car (as opposed to its current condition merely being maintained), the garage is entitled to retain possession of the car until the customer has paid for the repairs (this entitlement being known as a “lien”). Once the customer has paid, the lien is lost and the garage must return the car"
They have not carried out any repairs that resulted in the improvement of the car. They've merely inspected the car and I say the word 'inspect' very half heartedly .. and claimed that there's additional damage, which may I quite rightly add - should of been obvious had they inspected the car properly in the first place, they wouldn't of needed to 'strip' the car down to find the new damage they've added in revised estimate.
Had I removed the car from the premises which I would had every right to, the very max they could of charged me/insurers was the labour to 'inspect' the car.
paulwoof said:
you seem like the kind of guy who would phone companies and hit them with the "just to make you aware, Im recording this call" patter.
I concur with other posters, There may very well be a reason why the bodyshop and insurers are doing as little as possible to help you.
You are entitled to your opinion. Like I said, it's easy to say stuff without being in my shoes and going through it all. Going through the crap where you've lost all your ncb's, having to suffer increased premiums for a number of years..I concur with other posters, There may very well be a reason why the bodyshop and insurers are doing as little as possible to help you.
The accident happened two months ago, it's unacceptable that it's taken this long to even come to the conclusion it has come to now. I'll concede that it's not the insurers fault completely but the bodyshops, they never did their job properly in the first place by throughly checking the car out, they never correctly sent over the estimate to the system that the insurers and independent engineer use to assses the vehicle on both occasions..
Had I not constantly chased them up I garauntee you that we would of been in the same position I was a few days ago, one month forward, no progress! I pay my premiums I expect the service that should come as standard.
It's clear how my insurers claim handler was behaving that they weren't fussed, entirely because I opted to use my own choice of repairers and not their shody bodyshop who would of got the job done for less half the amount quoted because they use cheap pattern parts and the overall job would be hatched one, sorry that I care about my car wanting it to be repaired properly.
All my insurers had to do to have made the process easier was to talk to the bodyshop with a bit more authority to get things moving at the pace it should of been moving and I had to shout and raise my my voice from then to listen listen !
Edited by captainhook on Wednesday 5th April 02:24
You obviously dont understand how either the insurance company or garage works do you.
The garage cant do anything without the insurance say so.
They have carried out work to your vehicle which they are entitled to be paid for, stripping preparing the quote, storing the vehicle, liasing with the insurance company.
Or do you expect all this to be done FOC?
The garage cant do anything without the insurance say so.
They have carried out work to your vehicle which they are entitled to be paid for, stripping preparing the quote, storing the vehicle, liasing with the insurance company.
Or do you expect all this to be done FOC?
captainhook said:
I shall see what they say first but if it's anymore than 3k to buy it back then absoloutely no way would I touch it. At 3k I would, I could buy the parts required to get it back on the road for less than £2000.
To be honest, you seem like the kind of guy who will always find something to fault. I'd recommend taking the money and buying a new car.Edited by captainhook on Tuesday 4th April 19:36
It's all done and dusted now, I still don't feel like I've been unreasonable, my insurance company have come back for a figure of 16.5 for the car which is reasonable and bang on for money market value wise.
I've been told though that to buy the car back will cost me 7.5k which is a silly figure! Considering there's in excess of £12,000 worth of damage something to do with the salvage percentage set by the salvage company or my insurance co (45%)
They have mentioned nothing about the parts, either they were lieing about ordering them or managed to return them/cancel the order.
Anyway it's all sorted now, time to move on now and hopefully recoup my NCB.
I've been told though that to buy the car back will cost me 7.5k which is a silly figure! Considering there's in excess of £12,000 worth of damage something to do with the salvage percentage set by the salvage company or my insurance co (45%)
They have mentioned nothing about the parts, either they were lieing about ordering them or managed to return them/cancel the order.
Anyway it's all sorted now, time to move on now and hopefully recoup my NCB.
Just an update in regards to this incident. Police closed the matter, surprise surprise. Even though the driver came at me with a knife.
MIB still dealing with the claim, claim has been dragging for ages, been over one year and 4 months now, I had to sign some paperwork so they could get access to my medical records and I noticed that the person dealing with my claim upon searching their name up works for the MIB as a fraud investigator..
Not sure what that is all about, I guess having two accidents in the space of a month of each other and the hire car cost charges that came up to £16,000! Did not help, this however is not my fault considering my insurance co recommend me the hire car company who is part of their arm.
Anyway hopefully it will be settled shortly as it’s affecting my ability to insure a car for a decent rate!!
MIB still dealing with the claim, claim has been dragging for ages, been over one year and 4 months now, I had to sign some paperwork so they could get access to my medical records and I noticed that the person dealing with my claim upon searching their name up works for the MIB as a fraud investigator..
Not sure what that is all about, I guess having two accidents in the space of a month of each other and the hire car cost charges that came up to £16,000! Did not help, this however is not my fault considering my insurance co recommend me the hire car company who is part of their arm.
Anyway hopefully it will be settled shortly as it’s affecting my ability to insure a car for a decent rate!!
First we’ve heard that the TP pulled a knife on you isn’t it? Thought he just drove off.
Think you’re going to struggle to get this settled for anything like the figure you expect, if at all. What reason are they using for not settling they’ve had everything they need for a year plus. As I understand it you’re supposed to mitigate your losses so I can’t see them stumping up £16k in hire charges I’m afraid. You could have hired a much much cheaper car or even bought a snotter until settlement.
Think you’re going to struggle to get this settled for anything like the figure you expect, if at all. What reason are they using for not settling they’ve had everything they need for a year plus. As I understand it you’re supposed to mitigate your losses so I can’t see them stumping up £16k in hire charges I’m afraid. You could have hired a much much cheaper car or even bought a snotter until settlement.
One thing I am curious about, even an insurance approved 'dodgy garage' - when my wife's car needed £9k worth of repairs from a fairly unknown bodyshop, when I went to collect the car I did so during the day, and went over everything with a fine toothed comb. I pointed out some issues, they took the car & rectified, I inspected again, OK'd it and drove away. Noticed some other stuff, took the car back, they rectified and returned it etc etc.... all in all very happy with it.
Hell even some of the big main dealers, if their bodyshop is full they will chuck your car at a local indie to do the work on their behalf - and you'd never know.
Hell even some of the big main dealers, if their bodyshop is full they will chuck your car at a local indie to do the work on their behalf - and you'd never know.
Andehh said:
Hell even some of the big main dealers, if their bodyshop is full they will chuck your car at a local indie to do the work on their behalf - and you'd never know.
First i've heard of main dealers having a bodyshop, the staff required would be too expensive, under worked and bodyshop stuff is something you can't put a time limit on and expect decent results, hell they don't even do gearbox work themselves (I know the company that almost every main dealer in the midlands uses).Edited by lyonspride on Tuesday 26th June 11:51
lyonspride said:
First i've heard of main dealers having a bodyshop, the staff required would be too expensive, under worked and bodyshop stuff is something you can't put a time limit on and expect decent results, hell they don't even do gearbox work themselves (I know the company that almost every main dealer in the midlands uses).
Small Main dealer group I worked for (since sold off) bought the local body shop, Eastern - Western group have a body shop and our local Ford Main Agent has it's own bodyshop...... Edited by lyonspride on Tuesday 26th June 11:51
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