Hit and run, third party who's trader claiming vehicle sold
Discussion
V8RX7 said:
Pushing what ?
Most Traders I know records are hopelessly out of date - no one cares - and frankly why should they ?
There are the potential fines for not updating the MID immediately (Unless there is a good reason not to).Most Traders I know records are hopelessly out of date - no one cares - and frankly why should they ?
Many Insurers will not cover a vehicle that you have not updated to the MID immediately again unless there is a good reason.
There are also the potential problems the OP is experiencing, I used to sell MT Insurance and had a trader who was in exactly the same position as the trader the OP is dealing with. He sent the log book off, the DVLA did not receive it and he had not deleted the vehicle from the MID. The buyer promptly had an accident and his Insurers (Tradex) were on the hook for paying the claim. As it was a large claim Tradex spent a lot of money trying to find the buyer (The trader had not taken proof of ID, he just noted a ficticious address).
My customers incident was before the Insurance Deregulation Act which makes it even more important to update the MID with additions / deletions ASAP.
http://insurance.dwf.law/news-updates/2015/06/the-...
I've known MT Insurers cancel traders policies when they discover they are not updating the MID correctly and / or have a proper paperwork trail. That's unlikely to happen with an Insurer such as Aviva etc but at the other end of the market it's relatively common. Trying to arrange a replacement policy when you / your company have a cancelled policy against your record is very difficult (Expensive)
Josho said:
That document is retarded.
It says any customers vehicles while in your control for motor trade business should be added.
I'm not adding every car that's in for a bloody oil change.
Whilst I agree, I know of a mechanic who took his customers vehicle for a test drive home, was stopped, the car confiscated and he had to walk home as he wasn't shown as insured.It says any customers vehicles while in your control for motor trade business should be added.
I'm not adding every car that's in for a bloody oil change.
Personally I carry my certificate with me.
V8RX7 said:
Whilst I agree, I know of a mechanic who took his customers vehicle for a test drive home, was stopped, the car confiscated and he had to walk home as he wasn't shown as insured.
Personally I carry my certificate with me.
If carrying the paper certificate is not practical, if your Insurer offers a digital download of your Certificate, you can download this to your phone and it carries the same weight legally as producing a paper certificatePersonally I carry my certificate with me.
The claim handler has tried to chase up proof in the form of the invoice of the sale of vehicle of the car that was involved in incident however the phone of the insurers is keep ringing out so she said to mitigate losses as i'm using a hire car cost that by the end of week or early next week I may have to go down the MIB route and my insurance as I don't know the name of the driver involved and the third party insurers will just "keep denying liability" and i'm furious about that as I don't feel they are chasing hard enough to get the third party insurers to take note of this serious incident whereby I was hurt and my passenger was.
The third party insurers are Tradex.
You cannot just say the vehicle was sold at the time of the incident happened, whilst the vehicle was still showing as insured.
The key questions that have yet been answered are:
Why was the vehicle still insured at time of the incident if the car had been sold
How long ago was the vehicle sold
Why am I having to go through the possibility of claiming through my own insurance if the vehicle was insured at the time of the incident even though I don't know the drivers name.
Police have been helpless. officer took a statement 2 weeks ago, not responding to my emails, spoke to the police traffic dept saying no updates, there short of staff, WTH?
2 weeks after the time of the incident, I don't know if my vehicle is a write off, the claim handler is still waiting for the third party to do a without prejudice report on it and i'm just stressed right now.
Someone I know said their friend who sells and buys cars was involved with a similar incident and their policy was with tradex where they stated that they sold the car at the time of the incident but didn't have the details of who the car was sold to: Tradex sent investigators over and asked him a lot of questions, and in the end settled the claim with the third party, I can't understand why they can't do this and why my claim handler isn't pushing them to sort it out and take them down this route.
http://insurance.dwf.law/news-updates/2015/06/the-...
I've came across this which shows the third party insurers could be still liable for the incident?
The third party insurers are Tradex.
You cannot just say the vehicle was sold at the time of the incident happened, whilst the vehicle was still showing as insured.
The key questions that have yet been answered are:
Why was the vehicle still insured at time of the incident if the car had been sold
How long ago was the vehicle sold
Why am I having to go through the possibility of claiming through my own insurance if the vehicle was insured at the time of the incident even though I don't know the drivers name.
Police have been helpless. officer took a statement 2 weeks ago, not responding to my emails, spoke to the police traffic dept saying no updates, there short of staff, WTH?
2 weeks after the time of the incident, I don't know if my vehicle is a write off, the claim handler is still waiting for the third party to do a without prejudice report on it and i'm just stressed right now.
Someone I know said their friend who sells and buys cars was involved with a similar incident and their policy was with tradex where they stated that they sold the car at the time of the incident but didn't have the details of who the car was sold to: Tradex sent investigators over and asked him a lot of questions, and in the end settled the claim with the third party, I can't understand why they can't do this and why my claim handler isn't pushing them to sort it out and take them down this route.
http://insurance.dwf.law/news-updates/2015/06/the-...
I've came across this which shows the third party insurers could be still liable for the incident?
captainhook said:
You cannot just say the vehicle was sold at the time of the incident happened, whilst the vehicle was still showing as insured.
Why was the vehicle still insured at time of the incident if the car had been sold
How long ago was the vehicle sold
http://insurance.dwf.law/news-updates/2015/06/the-...
You can - though it may not hold up in CourtWhy was the vehicle still insured at time of the incident if the car had been sold
How long ago was the vehicle sold
http://insurance.dwf.law/news-updates/2015/06/the-...
Because it probably wasn't sold but if it was, the records weren't updated - as you've been told they are NOT 100% correct - no records are.
If you can't be arsed to chase up yourself why do you think anyone else will ?
Link doesn't work
What lesson can be learnt from this? I haven't done anything wrong. I took pictures of the car's damage and the vehicle registration, if the person wouldn't give me his name or address and drive off what could I I have done differently in this situation?
I could of taken the keys out of their car and wait until the police come and make the situation escalate in a bad way which I would of got a ticking off for and possibility at the same time the offenders could of fled the scene...
It's a disgrace that It's very likely I will have to claim on my own policy, the car was insured at the time of the incident, the third party has claimed they have sold the car and yet there is still no proof of any invoices presented to show this.
I've chased the police up and asked for updates they have said there isn't any what more can I do?! You can't say well if i'm not making an effort they won't. I don't have the resources to do all the legwork, the third party insurers won't speak to me, all the communication has to be the claim handler.
Maybe i should just switch to traders insurance, drive around like an idiot, if I crash, no problem! I'll just fled the scene and say the car is closed, leaving the other driver facing years of already high insurance premiums!!
I could of taken the keys out of their car and wait until the police come and make the situation escalate in a bad way which I would of got a ticking off for and possibility at the same time the offenders could of fled the scene...
It's a disgrace that It's very likely I will have to claim on my own policy, the car was insured at the time of the incident, the third party has claimed they have sold the car and yet there is still no proof of any invoices presented to show this.
I've chased the police up and asked for updates they have said there isn't any what more can I do?! You can't say well if i'm not making an effort they won't. I don't have the resources to do all the legwork, the third party insurers won't speak to me, all the communication has to be the claim handler.
Maybe i should just switch to traders insurance, drive around like an idiot, if I crash, no problem! I'll just fled the scene and say the car is closed, leaving the other driver facing years of already high insurance premiums!!
dacouch said:
V8RX7 said:
Whilst I agree, I know of a mechanic who took his customers vehicle for a test drive home, was stopped, the car confiscated and he had to walk home as he wasn't shown as insured.
Personally I carry my certificate with me.
If carrying the paper certificate is not practical, if your Insurer offers a digital download of your Certificate, you can download this to your phone and it carries the same weight legally as producing a paper certificatePersonally I carry my certificate with me.
It doesn't have to be printed at all: the wiki article is out of datehttp://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/1117/artic...
captainhook said:
What lesson can be learnt from this? I haven't done anything wrong. I took pictures of the car's damage and the vehicle registration, if the person wouldn't give me his name or address and drive off what could I I have done differently in this situation?
I could have
Did you call the police straight away at the scene and tell them he wouldn't give you his name and address?I could have
Assuming this isn't a half term wet dream.
As someone earlier alluded - if this is two bit back street garage you could put 2+2 and make 5. The trader may have a son on his insurance or an apprentice mechanic who has been ragging around an old Clio and now the trader is trying to deny everything. I'd certainly have a look around his premises to see if it's still about, at closing time see what cars the mechanics leave in. If the trader has an unusual name you might find his home address and the sons car sitting outside or when one of his mates comes around in the car! Might take a bit of work but if it comes off it'll be worth it. Make sure you video any evidence.
Alternately, Presumably the Police can see who owns and insures the car now. Worth asking them to check with current owner when they bought the car.
As someone earlier alluded - if this is two bit back street garage you could put 2+2 and make 5. The trader may have a son on his insurance or an apprentice mechanic who has been ragging around an old Clio and now the trader is trying to deny everything. I'd certainly have a look around his premises to see if it's still about, at closing time see what cars the mechanics leave in. If the trader has an unusual name you might find his home address and the sons car sitting outside or when one of his mates comes around in the car! Might take a bit of work but if it comes off it'll be worth it. Make sure you video any evidence.
Alternately, Presumably the Police can see who owns and insures the car now. Worth asking them to check with current owner when they bought the car.
Well I went around said trader, turns out it's a gearbox specialist place.
Spoke to the owner, explained the situation, stated he's never seen that car before, yeah right! The car was under your policy mate so how can you not know of the car! He was smiling too saying: "no, no never seen it before, sorry"
Went back to the premises just now, (midnight) place was closed but their parking area wasn't and it had a few cars in there but no trace of the renault that hit me. - Bit stupid to think it would be there anyway. Will pop back later in the morning and show the workers a pic of car see if I can get a bit of luck.
Searched the local area, funnily enough spotted 10 of the same make and model of the car that hit me but not the offending vehicle I was itching to find.
TBH, it's a waste of time even bothering searching, it's central Birmingham, so many side roads and places the car be easily left to blend in.. - The chances of finding the car now after 2 weeks of the incident happening is very slim.
Will phone up the police to see if I can get some more information to see where was the last place the car was spotted on ANPR, that's if they will share the information. They said it can take up to 12 weeks to get a report on the car which is ridiculous, the incident hasn't even been passed to the traffic processing unit as of yet.
Phoned up the claims handler and said are you sure the address you've given me was the right place they said, just don't worry about it, you may feel we are not doing much about it but rest assured we are, let us do our jobs blah blah.
Just feel a bit hopless tbh, god knows where that car is. Will pop around tomorrow to ask the workers if they know anything about the car and then get a mate to pop around later to see if they can recommend a decent body shop repairer and then try that place out if they've got the car or had it in for any work.
Just want to nail these frauds, still haven't even sent over proof of invoice to show car's been sold. The owner knows the car, probably was his son or member of staff, will again try and see if I can spot anyone working there who was in the car at the time of incident.
Spoke to the owner, explained the situation, stated he's never seen that car before, yeah right! The car was under your policy mate so how can you not know of the car! He was smiling too saying: "no, no never seen it before, sorry"
Went back to the premises just now, (midnight) place was closed but their parking area wasn't and it had a few cars in there but no trace of the renault that hit me. - Bit stupid to think it would be there anyway. Will pop back later in the morning and show the workers a pic of car see if I can get a bit of luck.
Searched the local area, funnily enough spotted 10 of the same make and model of the car that hit me but not the offending vehicle I was itching to find.
TBH, it's a waste of time even bothering searching, it's central Birmingham, so many side roads and places the car be easily left to blend in.. - The chances of finding the car now after 2 weeks of the incident happening is very slim.
Will phone up the police to see if I can get some more information to see where was the last place the car was spotted on ANPR, that's if they will share the information. They said it can take up to 12 weeks to get a report on the car which is ridiculous, the incident hasn't even been passed to the traffic processing unit as of yet.
Phoned up the claims handler and said are you sure the address you've given me was the right place they said, just don't worry about it, you may feel we are not doing much about it but rest assured we are, let us do our jobs blah blah.
Just feel a bit hopless tbh, god knows where that car is. Will pop around tomorrow to ask the workers if they know anything about the car and then get a mate to pop around later to see if they can recommend a decent body shop repairer and then try that place out if they've got the car or had it in for any work.
Just want to nail these frauds, still haven't even sent over proof of invoice to show car's been sold. The owner knows the car, probably was his son or member of staff, will again try and see if I can spot anyone working there who was in the car at the time of incident.
captainhook said:
Spoke to the owner, explained the situation, stated he's never seen that car before, yeah right! The car was under your policy mate so how can you not know of the car! He was smiling too saying: "no, no never seen it before, sorry"
WTF, you asked the owner, what did you expect him to do, hold his hands up and say "it's a fair cop guvnor, cars round the back"Seriously did it not occur to you to perhaps maybe not mention you were looking for his car that hit you and drove off.
Leave this all to your insurance company to deal with.
captainhook said:
Just feel a bit hopeless tbh, god knows where that car is. Will pop around tomorrow to ask the workers if they know anything about the car and then get a mate to pop around later to see if they can recommend a decent body shop repairer and then try that place out if they've got the car or had it in for any work.
Seriously you are not Colombo, leave it to the people being paid to sort it.Edited by KrazyIvan on Thursday 2nd March 14:42
codenamecueball said:
andymc said:
where did the incident happen? Birmingham or Bradford
Not entirely sure of the relevance of this?TBH, it's a waste of time even bothering searching, it's central Birmingham, so many side roads and places the car be easily left to blend in.. - The chances of finding the car now after 2 weeks of the incident happening is very slim.
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