Hit and run, third party who's trader claiming vehicle sold
Discussion
Yep. Thankfully the labor rate issue has been sorted. The garage has stated on this occasion they can work to the insurers approved rates which is good.
I asked my insurers if I can keep the damaged parts and they said it's down to the bodyshop and when I phoned the bodyshop they said no they dispose of them and insurers don't allow them to be given back.
Rubbish. My car my parts I think if I want my parts back then there shouldn't be an issue or any attempt to fob me off when it's clear they'll likely sell the parts on which I'm sure most garages do anyway when parts are salvageable.
I asked my insurers if I can keep the damaged parts and they said it's down to the bodyshop and when I phoned the bodyshop they said no they dispose of them and insurers don't allow them to be given back.
Rubbish. My car my parts I think if I want my parts back then there shouldn't be an issue or any attempt to fob me off when it's clear they'll likely sell the parts on which I'm sure most garages do anyway when parts are salvageable.
Yeah I doubt they'll be replacing all the parts due to them dropping it down to 27PHR. Most likely billing my insurers for all the parts needed on the invoice but not actually ordering particularly bits urgh.
I've been using vision vehicles and they are a claims management company -markerstudy bought them in 2012/13 - however they have been useless, still no proof in the form of an invoice to show the car has been sold????? PATHETIC bunch, wish I never used them but I needed a car to get about whilst mine was out of use and I wanted to keep costs down for everyone involved but for this 12 plate TT I'm using its 170 per day + VAT!!!!! Costs they state will be coming from the MIB.. So it's been a month that I've been in the hire car which is just over £5300!!
Talking about the MIB, I had a text from this company who claim they are working on behalf of the MIB in regards to my claim:
Examworks Investigation Services act on behalf of Motor Insurers' Bureau. We will contact you shortly to discuss arranging an appointment to carry out their instructions. If you would like to contact us beforehand please ring 0333 600 1660 Please quote reference XXXXXXXXX
Bit strange. I shall call them tommorrow to find out more.
I'm looking into hiring my own personal investigator to get to the bottom of the car being sold as vision AMC has been useless they still have not got any sort of proof in the form of invoices that show the car had been sold prior to the collision, the car was on the MID as insured and shortly afterwards (a day or two was no longer) so it's obvious fraud. Surely this is an easy case to solve yet the AMC aren't being helpful in sorting this out, they've given up now obviously as they have sent out MIB forms for me to fill in so they can send off to the MIB.
So if anyone can point me the direction of someone who's services I can use, I will be greatly thankful.
I've been using vision vehicles and they are a claims management company -markerstudy bought them in 2012/13 - however they have been useless, still no proof in the form of an invoice to show the car has been sold????? PATHETIC bunch, wish I never used them but I needed a car to get about whilst mine was out of use and I wanted to keep costs down for everyone involved but for this 12 plate TT I'm using its 170 per day + VAT!!!!! Costs they state will be coming from the MIB.. So it's been a month that I've been in the hire car which is just over £5300!!
Talking about the MIB, I had a text from this company who claim they are working on behalf of the MIB in regards to my claim:
Examworks Investigation Services act on behalf of Motor Insurers' Bureau. We will contact you shortly to discuss arranging an appointment to carry out their instructions. If you would like to contact us beforehand please ring 0333 600 1660 Please quote reference XXXXXXXXX
Bit strange. I shall call them tommorrow to find out more.
I'm looking into hiring my own personal investigator to get to the bottom of the car being sold as vision AMC has been useless they still have not got any sort of proof in the form of invoices that show the car had been sold prior to the collision, the car was on the MID as insured and shortly afterwards (a day or two was no longer) so it's obvious fraud. Surely this is an easy case to solve yet the AMC aren't being helpful in sorting this out, they've given up now obviously as they have sent out MIB forms for me to fill in so they can send off to the MIB.
So if anyone can point me the direction of someone who's services I can use, I will be greatly thankful.
Edited by captainhook on Sunday 26th March 13:53
Thanks for your responses.
Bit of an update, the stupid Audi approved bodyshop that I instructed to carry out the repairs have come back to the insurers and said there's further damage found since "dismantling" the car, (yet looking at the recent pictures sent over to the insurance audex system nothing else appears to have been dismantled at all since the first estimate?!)
The total repair costs were originally £8k, reduced down to £7300 based on them and the engineer from hoopers agreeing a discount, that was over a week and half ago..
Now the revised estimate is just 200 quid short of £12,000. They claim there's further damage to the engine (driver side engine mount broken, power steering has gone. etc)
My insurers has stated that they probably won't write the car off anyway because parts have been ordered..
However this is not my fault and have parts really been ordered then that is down to them and the bodyshop to sort out because which idiot gives quotes on a repair of a car without fully checking it over?!
Next week Monday it would be 2 whole months since the date of the incident and very little in terms of progression has happened since then.
Sick of the lack of communication from both sides, insurers and bodyshop. Had I not went ape **** at them today to sort it out, It probably would of been another couple of weeks until it was sorted.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the bodyshop knew fully the extent of the damage yet held back relaying the full cost of repairs until they ordered parts so the insurance company woild just give them the ok to continue the repairs..
Not my problem now. It's gone over the 60% threshold.
Does anyone know where I stand now? Because it seems like if parts have been ordered that's going to be the sticking point? The bodyshop have completely messed me about.
Bit of an update, the stupid Audi approved bodyshop that I instructed to carry out the repairs have come back to the insurers and said there's further damage found since "dismantling" the car, (yet looking at the recent pictures sent over to the insurance audex system nothing else appears to have been dismantled at all since the first estimate?!)
The total repair costs were originally £8k, reduced down to £7300 based on them and the engineer from hoopers agreeing a discount, that was over a week and half ago..
Now the revised estimate is just 200 quid short of £12,000. They claim there's further damage to the engine (driver side engine mount broken, power steering has gone. etc)
My insurers has stated that they probably won't write the car off anyway because parts have been ordered..
However this is not my fault and have parts really been ordered then that is down to them and the bodyshop to sort out because which idiot gives quotes on a repair of a car without fully checking it over?!
Next week Monday it would be 2 whole months since the date of the incident and very little in terms of progression has happened since then.
Sick of the lack of communication from both sides, insurers and bodyshop. Had I not went ape **** at them today to sort it out, It probably would of been another couple of weeks until it was sorted.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the bodyshop knew fully the extent of the damage yet held back relaying the full cost of repairs until they ordered parts so the insurance company woild just give them the ok to continue the repairs..
Not my problem now. It's gone over the 60% threshold.
Does anyone know where I stand now? Because it seems like if parts have been ordered that's going to be the sticking point? The bodyshop have completely messed me about.
V8RX7 said:
So YOU chose the repairer who wasn't one of the ones your insurer wanted to use and now it's NOT your fault ?
People can only quote to repair what they can see is damaged - who should pay for each company quoting, to strip down your car ?
Perhaps there's a lesson somewhere.
This is because my insurers would of taken the car to a cowboy outfit who would of done the job for less than 5k. I should know, I've read the company up online to where they were taking it. There were no other suitable alternatives other than an Audi approved repairer who has high recommendation throughout the community. I'm sorry but I pay my premiums so I'm expecting a top class repair on a car that's worth substantial amount of money, heck for an accident that wasn't my fault or even was my fault, on a banger.. I'd also expect a top classic service on the repair job, I expect nothing less.People can only quote to repair what they can see is damaged - who should pay for each company quoting, to strip down your car ?
Perhaps there's a lesson somewhere.
But let's sit and judge in an armchair...
This is meant to be a proper Audi approved bodyshop, this place is well known to get all the big jobs in, from the likes of ferraris, Lamborghinis, aston Martins, to your lower high end class models, RS and so on..
Clearly on this occasion, their customer service has fallen well below what they know should be expected from them.
Of course additional damage can be found whilst stripping a car but I do not believe for one second that the additional damage could not have been found at the first estimate. The car when it was recovered by them never started for goodness sake.. wouldn't you scan, scan scan, and check the engine amongst other vital components to see why the engine wouldn't start perhaps?!
Most importantly Insurers know a revised estimator might go up by a couple of pounds or a couple hundreds.. I'm sure they are not expecting the costs to go by nearly 5k more for something that so easily should should of been pointed out, first time round.
It's seem like an attempt to order parts and come back to the insurers with an revised estimate, that's nearly 5 grand more and because parts have been ordered, believe the insurers will just turn around and say no problem.. carry on! They are not just messing me about, they are messing AND ripping off my insurance company and many others in the process.
I'm sorry but I've lost all faith in this garage now and if the car isn't written off, I shall be taking the car elsewhere and the parts to another garage for a repair. A final two fingers salute for their **** service.
All could have been avoided if they did they job properly in the first place. Unforgivable schoolboy error.
Rant over!
Edited by captainhook on Tuesday 4th April 00:33
Went back to the garage this morning, couldn't find the young chap who was driving at the time of the incident. Will get onto the dvla in regards to finding out who the new keeper is and then obviously making enquries with them to see when they bought the car..
In fact about the hit and run claim, it's all a bit strange and the insurers are being vague with the info they hold - They have said it turns out the car wasn't insured on the day on the incident and the insurance had finished the day before the incident. They said they've sent off their part of forms to the MIB who will get to the bottom of it and particular this discrepancy.
A bit of an update about the garage too, I've told my insurers also that I refuse to allow the garage to carry on repiring the car as they are a bunch of chancers and fraudsters. They wanted the work so they've withheld certain information about the car until parts were orderded so there was no going back..
The car wouldn't start when I bought it to them and all sorts of lights were popping up on the dash so they should of done their full checks before sending any sort of invoice over to the insurance company, they've now told them about the damage to the engine, steering rack, abs pump and so all, information that should of been picked up at the first instance when they inspected the car.
It's clear they had their own interest at heart - their own pockets so withheld information because had they sent over the information properly in the first place, they knew the car would of been written off.
I should know today what's going to happen, my insurers have said they want £4000 for cost of the parts already ordered, plus £300 before they release the car as I've told them it's not going to be repaired by them. The cheek! They won't getting a penny and I'll be collecting MY car. Their own fault ordering parts not fully checking the car over.
In fact about the hit and run claim, it's all a bit strange and the insurers are being vague with the info they hold - They have said it turns out the car wasn't insured on the day on the incident and the insurance had finished the day before the incident. They said they've sent off their part of forms to the MIB who will get to the bottom of it and particular this discrepancy.
A bit of an update about the garage too, I've told my insurers also that I refuse to allow the garage to carry on repiring the car as they are a bunch of chancers and fraudsters. They wanted the work so they've withheld certain information about the car until parts were orderded so there was no going back..
The car wouldn't start when I bought it to them and all sorts of lights were popping up on the dash so they should of done their full checks before sending any sort of invoice over to the insurance company, they've now told them about the damage to the engine, steering rack, abs pump and so all, information that should of been picked up at the first instance when they inspected the car.
It's clear they had their own interest at heart - their own pockets so withheld information because had they sent over the information properly in the first place, they knew the car would of been written off.
I should know today what's going to happen, my insurers have said they want £4000 for cost of the parts already ordered, plus £300 before they release the car as I've told them it's not going to be repaired by them. The cheek! They won't getting a penny and I'll be collecting MY car. Their own fault ordering parts not fully checking the car over.
Edited by captainhook on Tuesday 4th April 11:27
I am really not being unreasonable TBH. Two months since the accident and they garage have been disgusting with their lack of customer servicing and relaying exactly what's going on with the car.
I instructed them to carry out the repairs to the car not the insurers so even though the insurers are paying for the repair, overall I am their customer but I haven't been treated like one.
The chap who did the first estimate and did the further estimate did not let me know about the additional damage to the car and only told my insurers about it - that's bang out of order, I only knew about the car being a potential total loss when my ACM file handler notified me that the garage told them this, and when I spoke to the chap at the garage, he sounded completely shocked that I knew and wanted to know who told me..
I told them what was going on with the engine, it didn't start, various lights appeared on the dashboard in regards to the brakes/abs pump etc as soon as they had the car and before they even looked at it.
The car wouldn't start, they should of done a full inspection before submitting any kind of invoice to the insurance company because these components that I mentioned to them, topped with the car not starting means only an idiot would only just inspect visually from the front of the car and don't bothering doing a full check looking underneath the car and getting down to the bottom to what's going on with all these lights on dashboard and working out exactly why the car won't start...
The engine has damage that is visible from viewing the car when they finally put it on the ramp for the second estimate. The engine can be seen to be slumped below from the undercarriage, that's a unforgivable schoolboy error and should of been picked up on when inspecting the car first time round.
In my opinion, they knew full and well the true extent of the damage but they didn't disclose everything until things were all ready ordered so the insurance co will just say - just carry on with the work.. No no no.
They should of been honest from the start and they didn't, they were only thinking about one thing, making money on the job.
I've lost faith in them, I've lost faith on them in the ability to carry out the required repairs to the car. They are a bunch of fraudsters and chancers and if it wasn't me constantly chasing them and the insurers getting extremely mad to sort it out I probably would be without the car for additional amount of months!!
Of course bodyshops come back with additional repair costs when it comes to repairing a car however this is usually only a couple hundred quid more.. the new invoice went from 7300, to £11,900 after doing their checks properly.
Not my fault that they didn't check the car out properly first time round and they ordered £4000 worth of parts. They won't get a penny off me and I will be taking my car out of that place without paying so. They say they want £4000 plus £300 for labour costs and I'd be willing to pay just their £300 costs - and they are very lucky I am offering them that with them trying to fob me off and trying to rip my insurers off by by not being honest first time round with the full extent of the damage!
I instructed them to carry out the repairs to the car not the insurers so even though the insurers are paying for the repair, overall I am their customer but I haven't been treated like one.
The chap who did the first estimate and did the further estimate did not let me know about the additional damage to the car and only told my insurers about it - that's bang out of order, I only knew about the car being a potential total loss when my ACM file handler notified me that the garage told them this, and when I spoke to the chap at the garage, he sounded completely shocked that I knew and wanted to know who told me..
I told them what was going on with the engine, it didn't start, various lights appeared on the dashboard in regards to the brakes/abs pump etc as soon as they had the car and before they even looked at it.
The car wouldn't start, they should of done a full inspection before submitting any kind of invoice to the insurance company because these components that I mentioned to them, topped with the car not starting means only an idiot would only just inspect visually from the front of the car and don't bothering doing a full check looking underneath the car and getting down to the bottom to what's going on with all these lights on dashboard and working out exactly why the car won't start...
The engine has damage that is visible from viewing the car when they finally put it on the ramp for the second estimate. The engine can be seen to be slumped below from the undercarriage, that's a unforgivable schoolboy error and should of been picked up on when inspecting the car first time round.
In my opinion, they knew full and well the true extent of the damage but they didn't disclose everything until things were all ready ordered so the insurance co will just say - just carry on with the work.. No no no.
They should of been honest from the start and they didn't, they were only thinking about one thing, making money on the job.
I've lost faith in them, I've lost faith on them in the ability to carry out the required repairs to the car. They are a bunch of fraudsters and chancers and if it wasn't me constantly chasing them and the insurers getting extremely mad to sort it out I probably would be without the car for additional amount of months!!
Of course bodyshops come back with additional repair costs when it comes to repairing a car however this is usually only a couple hundred quid more.. the new invoice went from 7300, to £11,900 after doing their checks properly.
Not my fault that they didn't check the car out properly first time round and they ordered £4000 worth of parts. They won't get a penny off me and I will be taking my car out of that place without paying so. They say they want £4000 plus £300 for labour costs and I'd be willing to pay just their £300 costs - and they are very lucky I am offering them that with them trying to fob me off and trying to rip my insurers off by by not being honest first time round with the full extent of the damage!
Actually they have hold no legal right to my car. I am the owner. Get your facts right before you start spouting rubbish and look at the bigger picture.
Like I said, the further extent of damage found was clear beforehand. They only looked at the front of the car and went by the damaged areas as an estimate. The engine would not start, lights on the dashboard stated that there were various mechanical issues with the car yet they failed to declare this on the first instance on the quote, ordering parts without taking all of this into account leaves them open for the blame for the amount of parts ordered, no one else fault but theirs and their incompetence.
Had they put the car on the ramp that any competent assessor would, they would seen that the engine is sitting on a funny angle, damaged by looking under the undercarriage. Period.
Like I said, the further extent of damage found was clear beforehand. They only looked at the front of the car and went by the damaged areas as an estimate. The engine would not start, lights on the dashboard stated that there were various mechanical issues with the car yet they failed to declare this on the first instance on the quote, ordering parts without taking all of this into account leaves them open for the blame for the amount of parts ordered, no one else fault but theirs and their incompetence.
Had they put the car on the ramp that any competent assessor would, they would seen that the engine is sitting on a funny angle, damaged by looking under the undercarriage. Period.
Just a bit of an update, after months of being messed around it seems like we have come to a satisfactory response.
The car will be a write off, the engineer has stated absoloutely no way the car will be repaired at that valuation and they will ask the bodyshop for a breakdown of the repair costs to decide what a category the car will be labeled.
Just waiting on the cars valuation and how mch it will cost to buy it back - hope they don't damage it further in spite.
I still feel like the bodyshop need to know what exactly what I feel about them in a form of a review online because they absolutely tried it on.
The car will be a write off, the engineer has stated absoloutely no way the car will be repaired at that valuation and they will ask the bodyshop for a breakdown of the repair costs to decide what a category the car will be labeled.
Just waiting on the cars valuation and how mch it will cost to buy it back - hope they don't damage it further in spite.
I still feel like the bodyshop need to know what exactly what I feel about them in a form of a review online because they absolutely tried it on.
TwistingMyMelon said:
Don't buy it back , that is all
I shall see what they say first but if it's anymore than 3k to buy it back then absoloutely no way would I touch it. At 3k I would, I could buy the parts required to get it back on the road for less than £2000.Edited by captainhook on Tuesday 4th April 19:36
robdcfc said:
If you have had this attitude towards either the garage or the insurers I can see why they arent particularly rushing to sort it for you
Oh so you own your own repair shop do you?! You must be like the garage in question, robbing the insurers for repairs that are not needed or like my case quoting for repairs needed, whilst withholding the true value of the repair bill in the first instance, getting the insurers into a 'trap' as you've already ordered parts so they are comittmented in carrying out the repair where had they known the true value of repair wouldn't of bothered!You are quoting an article that does not apply to my situation, quit being a smartarse.
"If the garage carries out repairs and this results in an improvement to the car (as opposed to its current condition merely being maintained), the garage is entitled to retain possession of the car until the customer has paid for the repairs (this entitlement being known as a “lien”). Once the customer has paid, the lien is lost and the garage must return the car"
They have not carried out any repairs that resulted in the improvement of the car. They've merely inspected the car and I say the word 'inspect' very half heartedly .. and claimed that there's additional damage, which may I quite rightly add - should of been obvious had they inspected the car properly in the first place, they wouldn't of needed to 'strip' the car down to find the new damage they've added in revised estimate.
Had I removed the car from the premises which I would had every right to, the very max they could of charged me/insurers was the labour to 'inspect' the car.
paulwoof said:
you seem like the kind of guy who would phone companies and hit them with the "just to make you aware, Im recording this call" patter.
I concur with other posters, There may very well be a reason why the bodyshop and insurers are doing as little as possible to help you.
You are entitled to your opinion. Like I said, it's easy to say stuff without being in my shoes and going through it all. Going through the crap where you've lost all your ncb's, having to suffer increased premiums for a number of years..I concur with other posters, There may very well be a reason why the bodyshop and insurers are doing as little as possible to help you.
The accident happened two months ago, it's unacceptable that it's taken this long to even come to the conclusion it has come to now. I'll concede that it's not the insurers fault completely but the bodyshops, they never did their job properly in the first place by throughly checking the car out, they never correctly sent over the estimate to the system that the insurers and independent engineer use to assses the vehicle on both occasions..
Had I not constantly chased them up I garauntee you that we would of been in the same position I was a few days ago, one month forward, no progress! I pay my premiums I expect the service that should come as standard.
It's clear how my insurers claim handler was behaving that they weren't fussed, entirely because I opted to use my own choice of repairers and not their shody bodyshop who would of got the job done for less half the amount quoted because they use cheap pattern parts and the overall job would be hatched one, sorry that I care about my car wanting it to be repaired properly.
All my insurers had to do to have made the process easier was to talk to the bodyshop with a bit more authority to get things moving at the pace it should of been moving and I had to shout and raise my my voice from then to listen listen !
Edited by captainhook on Wednesday 5th April 02:24
It's all done and dusted now, I still don't feel like I've been unreasonable, my insurance company have come back for a figure of 16.5 for the car which is reasonable and bang on for money market value wise.
I've been told though that to buy the car back will cost me 7.5k which is a silly figure! Considering there's in excess of £12,000 worth of damage something to do with the salvage percentage set by the salvage company or my insurance co (45%)
They have mentioned nothing about the parts, either they were lieing about ordering them or managed to return them/cancel the order.
Anyway it's all sorted now, time to move on now and hopefully recoup my NCB.
I've been told though that to buy the car back will cost me 7.5k which is a silly figure! Considering there's in excess of £12,000 worth of damage something to do with the salvage percentage set by the salvage company or my insurance co (45%)
They have mentioned nothing about the parts, either they were lieing about ordering them or managed to return them/cancel the order.
Anyway it's all sorted now, time to move on now and hopefully recoup my NCB.
Just an update in regards to this incident. Police closed the matter, surprise surprise. Even though the driver came at me with a knife.
MIB still dealing with the claim, claim has been dragging for ages, been over one year and 4 months now, I had to sign some paperwork so they could get access to my medical records and I noticed that the person dealing with my claim upon searching their name up works for the MIB as a fraud investigator..
Not sure what that is all about, I guess having two accidents in the space of a month of each other and the hire car cost charges that came up to £16,000! Did not help, this however is not my fault considering my insurance co recommend me the hire car company who is part of their arm.
Anyway hopefully it will be settled shortly as it’s affecting my ability to insure a car for a decent rate!!
MIB still dealing with the claim, claim has been dragging for ages, been over one year and 4 months now, I had to sign some paperwork so they could get access to my medical records and I noticed that the person dealing with my claim upon searching their name up works for the MIB as a fraud investigator..
Not sure what that is all about, I guess having two accidents in the space of a month of each other and the hire car cost charges that came up to £16,000! Did not help, this however is not my fault considering my insurance co recommend me the hire car company who is part of their arm.
Anyway hopefully it will be settled shortly as it’s affecting my ability to insure a car for a decent rate!!
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