Hit and run, third party who's trader claiming vehicle sold

Hit and run, third party who's trader claiming vehicle sold

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Discussion

Crispynotes

44 posts

90 months

Thursday 2nd March 2017
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captainhook said:
Well I went around said trader, turns out it's a gearbox specialist place.

Spoke to the owner, explained the situation, stated he's never seen that car before, yeah right! The car was under your policy mate so how can you not know of the car! He was smiling too saying: "no, no never seen it before, sorry"

Went back to the premises just now, (midnight) place was closed but their parking area wasn't and it had a few cars in there but no trace of the renault that hit me. - Bit stupid to think it would be there anyway. Will pop back later in the morning and show the workers a pic of car see if I can get a bit of luck.

Searched the local area, funnily enough spotted 10 of the same make and model of the car that hit me but not the offending vehicle I was itching to find.

TBH, it's a waste of time even bothering searching, it's central Birmingham, so many side roads and places the car be easily left to blend in.. - The chances of finding the car now after 2 weeks of the incident happening is very slim.

Will phone up the police to see if I can get some more information to see where was the last place the car was spotted on ANPR, that's if they will share the information. They said it can take up to 12 weeks to get a report on the car which is ridiculous, the incident hasn't even been passed to the traffic processing unit as of yet.

Phoned up the claims handler and said are you sure the address you've given me was the right place they said, just don't worry about it, you may feel we are not doing much about it but rest assured we are, let us do our jobs blah blah.

Just feel a bit hopless tbh, god knows where that car is. Will pop around tomorrow to ask the workers if they know anything about the car and then get a mate to pop around later to see if they can recommend a decent body shop repairer and then try that place out if they've got the car or had it in for any work.

Just want to nail these frauds, still haven't even sent over proof of invoice to show car's been sold. The owner knows the car, probably was his son or member of staff, will again try and see if I can spot anyone working there who was in the car at the time of incident.
What's the vehicle reg and colour, I will keep an eye out for it as I am in central Birmingham.

captainhook

Original Poster:

122 posts

86 months

Saturday 4th March 2017
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Yeah It was silly going to the garage and asking about the car, of course he's going to deny it.

Going to the papers won't achieve nothing if It would make a difference then I would 100% be behind the idea.

Thanks, the vehicle registration is BG04RRV silver Renault Megane.

So now the car is in the process of being inspected on Monday through my own Insurance co, will have to pay excess (£500)

After telling them that I don't want to use their crappy approved bodyshop repairer (that's if the car isn't categorised) I was told if I went down the route of using my own choice of repairer, I would be liable for the courtesy car costs? WTH? The claims company is their own in house one and they said on the phone that I wouldn't be liable for any costs as long as I was cooperative with their enquiries and the claim wasn't fraudulent....

I'm hoping my car is a write off anyway, don't have faith in it ever be the same. 2010 Audi S3, 34,000 miles, fully loaded, 8 very short owners. If this one was a cat albeit slightly double miles then I'm hoping mine is and I can buy it back for pennies. (rolls eyes) https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/22725387/?resultIndex...

Here's the damage.
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|http://thumbsnap.com/rId6TUWh[/url]

Pip1968

1,348 posts

204 months

Saturday 4th March 2017
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I would put a few pictures of the TP's vehilce up and not yours. The focus is the missing car not your damage! Then put something in the county section of PH maybe under 'spotted' ie Have you seen this vehicle? If you are on Facebook put something on there. Use it like some do for publicity for crowd funding. Maybe someone will be able to help. If you want to go further an advert in the local rag 'Reward for where abouts of this vehicle'.

They are scum but seemingly everywhere.

I had something similar about fifteen years ago. Hit at a roundabout by a van and had to pay out as the driver did not put a claim in. A year or so later the legal people took the company to court and got my excess back. Company were trying to say that the driver was responsble for his own insurance.

Pip

captainhook

Original Poster:

122 posts

86 months

Saturday 4th March 2017
quotequote all
Pip1968 said:
I would put a few pictures of the TP's vehilce up and not yours. The focus is the missing car not your damage! Then put something in the county section of PH maybe under 'spotted' ie Have you seen this vehicle? If you are on Facebook put something on there. Use it like some do for publicity for crowd funding. Maybe someone will be able to help. If you want to go further an advert in the local rag 'Reward for where abouts of this vehicle'.

They are scum but seemingly everywhere.

I had something similar about fifteen years ago. Hit at a roundabout by a van and had to pay out as the driver did not put a claim in. A year or so later the legal people took the company to court and got my excess back. Company were trying to say that the driver was responsble for his own insurance.

Pip
A good point, will get one up and running shortly. I did actually put a post up on a very local car community page offering a £1000 reward for information leading to the whereabouts to the car and the person who owns it and judging by a few responses and a few people tagging someone I knew, - it was clear a few people on the group did know the person but wouldn't share me their details, one of them being a childhood friend who I now no longer speak to as he knows the person but wouldn't give me any details.

When I threatened to inform the police that he maybe withholding information for a crime that's been committed the majority of the page turned against me calling me a all sorts for names under the sun for bringing the "feds" in the picture and a"snitch" shortly afterwards, I was blocked.

Funny thing is though, those same people if the tables were turned and were in the same position, or if there car was stolen, they would be putting up information on all these car pages and would be going to the police. Bunch of idiots.




captainhook

Original Poster:

122 posts

86 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
I've been in involved in an accident with a hit and run driver. (Got their registration, however policyholder who is a motor trader claiming vehicle was sold which is a lie) Anyway I've got to go through my own insurance co and the MIB to reclaim the eventual losses...

I've got to pay my excess and the insurance co is taking the car to a bodyshop which is crap based on the reviews posted online. I want to take it to Audi to get it repaired if it's repairable (touchwood the costs are too high and they write it off)

However my insurance co are stating if I take it elsewhere of my choice then the max they'll pay per hour is £27 and anything above that, I would be liable for the amount. Is that right, are they allowed to say this? The dozen other decent bodyshops i contacted who charged 45+ an hour stated that the bodyshop will do a rubbish substandard job and it will come out looking like previous damage has been inflicted on the car which I don't want as when I come to sell if panels look out of place and places look like it's been painted over then it's going to be difficult if prospective buyers notice these areas..

I've told them that i'm not happy and if the car had to go to the bodyshop of their choice and it was a crap job, I will give them a chance to rectify the problem, and if it's crap again I will demand that the work is taken elsewhere and stripped and done again,

Also, it's likely the bodyshop will use pattern parts, can i demand that they use genuine oem parts, the car isn't a banger, It's a 16k car and I don't want corners to be cut.

Lastly, i'm wating on the engineers report and the cost of the repair if it's repairable, can I ask my insurance co for cash in lieu payment of damages - I know people have mentioned that asking this could raise suspicions but the claim is 100% genuine, police were involved, the policy of third party was traced back to a motor trader who claims the car was sold when the accident happened.. They did tell me though when i asked them that usually a cash in lieu payment is usually only made if parts are hard to obtain for repair.

kiethton

13,895 posts

180 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
There is no chance of your car being written off for that damage if worth £16k

The choice and restrictions on other garages is wholly dependent on the detail of your own policy - you need to check that, unless anybody on here works for your insurer nobody would know.

herewego

8,814 posts

213 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
If you want cash in lieu so you can take it to an Audi dealer then you may as well pay the extra hourly rate for the job to be done there in the first place.
Insurance companies don't use shoddy workshops as they need to get the job done properly for a reasonable price and they don't want come backs. If you wanted to use only dealer's workshops then you needed to negotiate that when you bought the policy as it would probably have been a more expensive policy. It's not really fair on the rest of us for you to get a more expensive repair than we do unless you pay extra for the premium.

captainhook

Original Poster:

122 posts

86 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
Too early to say, could be other issues that they find when inspecting the car but it's seems unlikely to be a write off.

I will check my policy what it states, what I do know is that I won't be charged extra for taking it elsewhere, I'll just lose the benefit of a courtesy car.

Does anyone know how the insurance co/assessors come to determining value the car? Parkers/glass guide? Do they take into consideration amount of previous owners? I've just done a valuation check on motoring.co.uk and autotrader and both sites are coming back with a 14.5 - 15k figure.

I'm was not aware you can ask your potential insurers when taking out a policy that you could ask to only use dealers only for repair in an event of a claim that results in a repair, if this was something I was made aware of when taking out the policy I would of 100% have done this.

Would an option be if the assessors report comes back as say 7k, could I ask for a cash in lieu payment minus the labour charge but exclusive of the vat on the parts to fix the car myself?


anniesdad

14,589 posts

238 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
captainhook said:
So now the car is in the process of being inspected on Monday through my own Insurance co, will have to pay excess (£500)

After telling them that I don't want to use their crappy approved bodyshop repairer (that's if the car isn't categorised) I was told if I went down the route of using my own choice of repairer, I would be liable for the courtesy car costs? WTH? The claims company is their own in house one and they said on the phone that I wouldn't be liable for any costs as long as I was cooperative with their enquiries and the claim wasn't fraudulent....
It's your legal right to have an insurer pay for the repair cost at your chosen repairer. Stand your ground and demand to see the term or condition that says that you are liable for the cost of the credit hire vehicle supplied to you should you choose to use your own choice of bodyshop.

The car you are driving around is not a courtesy car. This sounds like typical bully tactics from an insurance company. Have they said you will ahve to pay double the contracted policy excess also? £250 doubled to £500?

anniesdad

14,589 posts

238 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
captainhook said:
However my insurance co are stating if I take it elsewhere of my choice then the max they'll pay per hour is £27 and anything above that, I would be liable for the amount. Is that right, are they allowed to say this? The dozen other decent bodyshops i contacted who charged 45+ an hour stated that the bodyshop will do a rubbish substandard job and it will come out looking like previous damage has been inflicted on the car which I don't want as when I come to sell if panels look out of place and places look like it's been painted over then it's going to be difficult if prospective buyers notice these areas..
The insurance company CANNOT dictate to you where it goes and CANNOT demand that you contribute over and above what they would like to pay. Demand to speak to somebody who understands their policyholders legal rights. Failing that tweet to their public twitter (trust me) and or threaten to go to the insurance ombudsman.

They try this on day in, day out. They really are too powerful for their own good.

anniesdad

14,589 posts

238 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
herewego said:
Insurance companies don't use shoddy workshops as they need to get the job done properly for a reasonable price and they don't want come backs. If you wanted to use only dealer's workshops then you needed to negotiate that when you bought the policy as it would probably have been a more expensive policy. It's not really fair on the rest of us for you to get a more expensive repair than we do unless you pay extra for the premium.
Insurers have screwed approved repairers down to the minimum, some shops have agreed a set fee for each repair regardless of the actual cost and the service flows accordingly...Your car costs £15K to repair and they've agreed a global figure of £1200.00, imagine how great the repair is going to be! Any come back is on the repairer first and foremost.

It's the claimant's legal entitlement to have the car repaired at the shop of their choice (none of this get 3 estimates business and we'll take the cheapest malarky). STAND YOUR GROUND!!

dacouch

1,172 posts

129 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
anniesdad said:
It's your legal right to have an insurer pay for the repair cost at your chosen repairer. Stand your ground and demand to see the term or condition that says that you are liable for the cost of the credit hire vehicle supplied to you should you choose to use your own choice of bodyshop.

The car you are driving around is not a courtesy car. This sounds like typical bully tactics from an insurance company. Have they said you will ahve to pay double the contracted policy excess also? £250 doubled to £500?
The op is not in a credit hire

anniesdad

14,589 posts

238 months

Monday 6th March 2017
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I'm pretty confident he is.

dacouch

1,172 posts

129 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
anniesdad said:
I'm pretty confident he is.
It's a hit and run accident...

anniesdad

14,589 posts

238 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
Identifiable vehicle with an insurer in the background. The OP would be able to confirm.

The MIB are being contacted to deal with uninsured loss claims. The OP's own insurer with regards the OP's vehicles repairs.

captainhook

Original Poster:

122 posts

86 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
Thank you all for your help, yes I've been looking online and it seems that the insurance co is just trying to fob me off in regards to taking the car to a bodyshop of my choice, I have a legal right, yes I lose my rights to a hire car and no protection in regards to warranty/guarantee of repair but that's clear across the board. I won't get charged extra for taking it to a place of my own choice either, my excess is £500 as standard nothing else. The other handler I had spoken to from my insurers was probably just trying to scare me in saying I would be liable for the current courtesy car costs.

I will demand that the car goes to a bodyshop of my choice, Audi or someone reputable who will use, proper genuine oem parts and actually take care when carrying out repairs.

source said:
The right to use your own repairer is covered under the consumer rights directive 1993, The Association of British Insurer's (A.B.I.) What was the Office of Fair Trade (OFT) the Financial Service Authority(FSA) which is now the FCA and the Vehicle Body Repair Association (VBRA/RMI) all agreed that the consumer has the right to choose!

The Consumer rights act 2015 now supercedes it.

Motor Vehicle block exemption regulations ec1400/2002

EU law ensures, for competitive purposes, that every car owner has the right to freely choose any repair shop to provide services and repairs for their vehicle (see the Block Exemption for motor vehicles and the Market Court (2012:13)). Manufacturers are obligated to provide the information necessary for any independent repair shop to be able to perform these repairs and services.

Application part 8 of the Enterprise act for unfair trading regulations 2008
The Consumer Protection for unfair trading regulations 2008 and application 8 of 2002 enterprise act, prohibits unfair commercial practices including agressive "Steerage techniques" and misleading actions, these are action which may materially distort your economic behaviour.
“materially distort the economic behaviour” means in relation to an average consumer, appreciably to impair the average consumer’s ability to make an informed decision thereby causing him to take a transactional decision that he would not have taken otherwise;


2015 Insurance Act also stipulates prior to a contract occuring, the insurer has to make the insured aware that the contract fulfills the demands and needs of the consumer,and any adverse term or condition is brought to the attention of the consumer. This should have no material detriment to the consumer. To advise after the contract has occured any restriction's in the consumers choice, or advise that you seek to reduce your contractural liabilities is a breach of the act.

http://www.motorclaimguru.co.uk/your-rights-as-a-c...
Also i'm not actually sure if i'm in a hire car or not? My insurers are markerststudy and the claims management company is vision vehicles, markerstudy bought them out in 2013 so now part of the markerstudy group.

Yes identifiable vehicle which at the time showed as insured by my insurers, the police and the claims company my own insurers referred me to. Claims company have sent me out document to sign to send off to the MIB, I'm claiming off my insurers and they will recover their costs from the MIB.






Edited by captainhook on Monday 6th March 21:08


Edited by captainhook on Monday 6th March 21:11

anniesdad

14,589 posts

238 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
OP, yes it's a credit hire car supplied by Vision Vehicle Solutions. Markerstudy bought the company a few years ago as you say, if you can't beat 'em...

It's not a courtesy car that you are driving. The expectation is that the third party and/or their insurers will pay for the vehicle that you are hiring. VVS should explain to you about your right to hire a car and your liability in doing so.

You could call your local Audi approved repairer and ask them if they have a courtesy car that they would be prepared to supply to you? Sounds like you've got a third party that is looking to wriggle out of this on a probable fabricated technicality, their insurers will be only too happy to oblige. Did you say you have a lawyer representing you?

captainhook

Original Poster:

122 posts

86 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
anniesdad said:
OP, yes it's a credit hire car supplied by Vision Vehicle Solutions. Markerstudy bought the company a few years ago as you say, if you can't beat 'em...

It's not a courtesy car that you are driving. The expectation is that the third party and/or their insurers will pay for the vehicle that you are hiring. VVS should explain to you about your right to hire a car and your liability in doing so.

You could call your local Audi approved repairer and ask them if they have a courtesy car that they would be prepared to supply to you? Sounds like you've got a third party that is looking to wriggle out of this on a probable fabricated technicality, their insurers will be only too happy to oblige. Did you say you have a lawyer representing you?
Understood, I hate dealing with claim management companies because it's clear that the vast majority have their own interest at heart and don't proactively try and get things wrapped up in relation to establishing liability with TP insurers as quickly as they can do in most cases. Only reason I went with them is because I needed a CC as mine was completely unroadworthy and insurers recommended to use them as they are in house, to keep costs down and mitigate losses..

However I would never use them again, very early on it was established that TP claimed the vehicle was sold at time of incident, they couldn't tell me when TP had sold the vehicle or give me any information on when they could get proof from the TP insurers inform of an invoice of any type to show the vehicle had been sold and every time I called, (reasonable time period between calls too) I've been greeted with an attitude that portrayed that I was an nuisance which was clear by the tone of the operator and the claims handler who had come over very sarcastic at times like they knew it all and I didn't. They've been hopeless and since the 14th Feb when the started working on the claim, they could of easy established from the TP if the vehicle was indeed sold with proof, something they haven't even established, in the form of invoice proof. I've asked them for the actual information on what they hold on the TP and their insurers as I've phoned Tradex a dozen times and have stated no such vehicle as been insurered through them and they have been unwilling to give me the info to do my own lines of enquiry.

I'm not using a solicitor unfortunately. Vision are the ones dealing with the claim on behalf of markerstudy.

Tomorrow, first thing, I will ask them to divert the car to a local Audi approved centre to let them carry out the estimate of the car and I will state that I will not compromise on the repairs and I refuse to use their shoddy bodyshop.



KungFuPanda

4,332 posts

170 months

Monday 6th March 2017
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I'm surprised a credit hire company gave you a car despite the potential insurance and indemnity issues.

anniesdad

14,589 posts

238 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
captainhook said:
Understood, I hate dealing with claim management companies because it's clear that the vast majority have their own interest at heart and don't proactively try and get things wrapped up in relation to establishing liability with TP insurers as quickly as they can do in most cases. Only reason I went with them is because I needed a CC as mine was completely unroadworthy and insurers recommended to use them as they are in house, to keep costs down and mitigate losses..
No comment other than to say that it is very much in the interest of the AMC to wrap up liability early on. A solicitor may see things somewhat differently however...

captainhook said:
However I would never use them again, very early on it was established that TP claimed the vehicle was sold at time of incident, they couldn't tell me when TP had sold the vehicle or give me any information on when they could get proof from the TP insurers inform of an invoice of any type to show the vehicle had been sold and every time I called, (reasonable time period between calls too) I've been greeted with an attitude that portrayed that I was an nuisance which was clear by the tone of the operator and the claims handler who had come over very sarcastic at times like they knew it all and I didn't. They've been hopeless and since the 14th Feb when the started working on the claim, they could of easy established from the TP if the vehicle was indeed sold with proof, something they haven't even established, in the form of invoice proof. I've asked them for the actual information on what they hold on the TP and their insurers as I've phoned Tradex a dozen times and have stated no such vehicle as been insurered through them and they have been unwilling to give me the info to do my own lines of enquiry.
They should divulge the information they do have to you, however they are somewhat reliant upon the third party insurers exchanging information.

captainhook said:
I'm not using a solicitor unfortunately. Vision are the ones dealing with the claim on behalf of markerstudy.

Tomorrow, first thing, I will ask them to divert the car to a local Audi approved centre to let them carry out the estimate of the car and I will state that I will not compromise on the repairs and I refuse to use their shoddy bodyshop.

VVS should still provide you with a hire vehicle until the repairs are completed.