Hit and run, third party who's trader claiming vehicle sold

[anniesdad]

OP, as an aside, you have the name of the company that bought the motor trade policy off Tradex. They are the only organisation other than their insurance broker that can change the covered vehicles on the policy. You have on one hand an insurer saying that their policyholder sold the vehicle prior to the accident and on the other the company owner saying he doesn't know what car you are talking about. I believe, you have enough to commence legal proceedings should you choose to do so, as it makes an interesting story for a judge to hear...

However you do have some support here. I can understand why you might be angsty and wanting to get this resolved tomorrow. I can tell you that won't happen and despite your supposition that this can get sorted just with a couple of phone calls the sad reality is that it won't. VVS are acting for you, they know what they are doing. Your insurers less so, as they frankly have given you some pretty shoddy advice by the sounds of it. Just hang in there and do what you suggest, demand the car be repaired by your chosen repairer. If they maintain that you will be partially liable for the damage other than the £500 excess then ask them to point to the relevant clause in the policy that confirms this (you can read the policy wording yourself in the mean time so as to understand your cover better). If they do have such a clause, I'm sure that at renewal time you'll be going elsewhere if this sorry business hasn't convinced you to do that already.

[captainhook]

KungFuPanda said:

I'm surprised a credit hire company gave you a car despite the potential insurance and indemnity issues.

Cowboys? No suprised really the way they've handled my claim. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes but I certainty don't think they handled they way they could of..

anniesdad said:

No comment other than to say that it is very much in the interest of the AMC to wrap up liability early on. A solicitor may see things somewhat differently however...

They should divulge the information they do have to you, however they are somewhat reliant upon the third party insurers exchanging information.

VVS should still provide you with a hire vehicle until the repairs are completed.

anniesdad said:

OP, as an aside, you have the name of the company that bought the motor trade policy off Tradex. They are the only organisation other than their insurance broker that can change the covered vehicles on the policy. You have on one hand an insurer saying that their policyholder sold the vehicle prior to the accident and on the other the company owner saying he doesn't know what car you are talking about. I believe, you have enough to commence legal proceedings should you choose to do so, as it makes an interesting story for a judge to hear...

However you do have some support here. I can understand why you might be angsty and wanting to get this resolved tomorrow. I can tell you that won't happen and despite your supposition that this can get sorted just with a couple of phone calls the sad reality is that it won't. VVS are acting for you, they know what they are doing. Your insurers less so, as they frankly have given you some pretty shoddy advice by the sounds of it. Just hang in there and do what you suggest, demand the car be repaired by your chosen repairer. If they maintain that you will be partially liable for the damage other than the £500 excess then ask them to point to the relevant clause in the policy that confirms this (you can read the policy wording yourself in the mean time so as to understand your cover better). If they do have such a clause, I'm sure that at renewal time you'll be going elsewhere if this sorry business hasn't convinced you to do that already.

Super, well i'll told them under no circumstances that I want my vehicle repaired with those shoddy cowboys which they now agree that that isn't a problem and haven't mentioned about taking the courtesy car away from me, as of yet..

In regards to legal proceedings, I very much want to do so against the TP and their insurers, however will I need to instruct a solicitor to do so? Even though VVS are 'dealing with my claim?' I will need VVS to also co-operate and send as much details they have in regards to the info they hold on the TP and their insurers if I were to instruct a solicitor to act on my behalf through the courts as right now, the info VVS are giving me in relation to the TP insurers are wrong - they are claiming no such vehicle has ever been insurerd with them.

In regards to taking it elsewhere and paying any differences it's now been cleared up:

Edited by captainhook on Tuesday 7th March 12:06

[anniesdad]

KungFuPanda said:

I'm surprised a credit hire company gave you a car despite the potential insurance and indemnity issues.

Not a surprise at all. The OP described the accident as clearly non-fault, the other vehicle was insured and presumably the OP demanded a replacement car to be delivered as soon as possible.

Some people expect credit hire cars to be delivered within half an hour of an accident happening! Why? Because it wasn't their fault!

Half an hour to receive notification, secure all required information, assess liability, verify hirer personal details, allocate a car, arrange insurance, organise delivery and actually deliver...nationwide. The alternative is that the hirer hires a vehicle at their own cost and reclaims the charges from the insurer. Then has the pleasure of claiming these costs back from an insurer that will make whatever arguments it can to get out of paying them...

VVS aren't cowboys whatsoever.

[anniesdad]

captainhook said:

Super, well i'll told them under no circumstances that I want my vehicle repaired with those shoddy cowboys which they now agree that that isn't a problem and haven't mentioned about taking the courtesy car away from me, as of yet..

In regards to legal proceedings, I very much want to do so against the TP and their insurers, however will I need to instruct a solicitor to do so? Even though VVS are 'dealing with my claim?' I will need VVS to also co-operate and send as much details they have in regards to the info they hold on the TP and their insurers if I were to instruct a solicitor to act on my behalf through the courts as right now, the info VVS are giving me in relation to the TP insurers are wrong - they are claiming no such vehicle has ever been insurerd with them.

In regards to taking it elsewhere and paying any differences it's now been cleared up:

Edited by captainhook on Tuesday 7th March 12:06

So...once again it's not a courtesy car...it's a credit hire vehicle for which you are liable to pay the costs. Unless you have taken out a policy covering you against the charge.

VVS will contact a legal adviser to act for you should they deem it necessary. You are of course free to choose your own but make sure you advise VVS as to their identity.

You are obliged under the terms and conditions to pay for the cost of an Audi approved repairer if they are not also an approved repairer for your insurer and their estimate is greater than what the insurers would expect to pay. That and you will have to pay £250.00 on top of your usual policy excess. So I was right. It's £250.00 + £250.00.

As it's non-fault your insurers may as a gesture of goodwill agree to pay for the full cost of repair nett of the £500.00 excess. They also may not.

My advice to anybody reading this is make sure you read the policy booklet terms and conditions either before or upon purchasing insurance so you know if it does come to the crunch what you can claim for or what service to expect.

Edited by anniesdad on Tuesday 7th March 13:10

[captainhook]

No you are right, VVS aren't a cowboy company but I strongly standby my opinion that the service you receive when it comes to handling claims in similar scenario bows down to who is dealing with your claim. The police have been PATHETIC, I have limited resources to get liability, what the TP insurers should of done is investigate if the car was indeed actually sold and obtain proof from the policyholder to back up their claim to state the vehicle was sold, they haven't so I bloody hope they get hit with a big bill when liability from on there side is established.

Anyway the car has been to my Audi approved repairer and the repair bill has been valued at 8k, and costs may rise once they start stripping parts and unearth more damage.. the bodyshop assessor said it's 50-50 in terms of a write off - I no longer want the car.

My insurer say they use glass and cap to value the car so with it being a 60% margin for a write off it may seem unlikely..

My 2010 S3 with 35000 on the clock is valued at £14850 - £15500 on the cap website (private sale) so at 14,850 if the 60% write off figure was applied with 14,850 being the lowest price from engineers car value point of view the repair costs would have to exceed £8910 to deem a write off.

The car on the glass guide website is valued at: 14,320 at a private guide price, so at s 60% margin using glass the repair bill will have to exceed 8610 to deem a write off..

I'm just hoping they bloody write it off and if they don't I will push for a few options.

CASH in lieu payment of the damage cost to fix it myself.

Write it off and buy it back so they can obtain their salvage costs back.

Edited by captainhook on Tuesday 14th March 21:37

Edited by captainhook on Tuesday 14th March 21:37

[captainhook]

Surprise surprise... (NOT!) Markerstudy are claiming that the repair costs are over inflated and have instructed a company called Hoopers to come and inspect the car - I've told them that I want to be present when they are there as I have concerns about the car if it's going to be repaired - namely the airbag light and traction control light. The airbag light im not happy with - I carry kids in the car regularly and if the airbags aren't been replaced then I want to write the car off.

I don't believe the bodyshop have fully inspected the car anyway - I've asked has the car been on the ramp and they said no - so a proper full inspection needs to be carried out because it's clear if it's going to be repaired and further faults are found, markerstudy will be funny in authorizing the aidditonal costs.

Not good, not good at all. Over a month I've been in a hire car and only things have been moving this week. Disgraceful.

Nice of them to do underwriting check on me too - Another way of them trying to wriggle out in paying out the costs. I refuse to use to use their own independent approved bodyshop, they will not use genuine Audi parts, they will not do the job properly and they will treat the car as a number..

Will never use markerstudy EVER AGAIN.

I've seen the repair cost and the repair estimate and no parts have been added that doesn't reflect the damage done. The parts must be REPLACED not repaired where cowboys they wanted me to go would of done.

[KungFuPanda]

Are Markerstudy your own insurer?

[captainhook]

KungFuPanda said:

Are Markerstudy your own insurer?

Yes markerstudy are my own insurance co.

It's not as if I paid for the cheapest policy ether I've paid them 2400 for the year. Wish I done my research on them on comparethemarket there's hundreds of the same complaints about them.

It has to be sorted Monday the latest, it's making me too stress.

[matjk]

Im no expert, but that looks like a very minor scrape and just cosmetic damage, whats the deal with the ABS and Airbags, surely the airbags didn't go off. And are those brake calipers just painted to look like lambo ones or are they a modification, might give the insurance company wiggle room, just something to bear in mind.

[captainhook]

matjk said:

Im no expert, but that looks like a very minor scrape and just cosmetic damage, whats the deal with the ABS and Airbags, surely the airbags didn't go off. And are those brake calipers just painted to look like lambo ones or are they a modification, might give the insurance company wiggle room, just something to bear in mind.

It does look like very minor comestic damage but the damage done reflects what needs to be done, yeah sure, the car probably could get repaired by their approved repairer for a little less than that BUT, they won't use the same genuine oem parts, I don't want pattern parts on a £16k car, the work they will do will also be below standard, I want to take it to someone I trust first time round and these guys I don't mess around - they deal with 6 figure value cars on a daily basis carrying out full conversions to a high standards. It's an Audi car and needs Audi parts and repaired to Audi standards otherwise the value will drop on a shoddy repair.

TBF, they did say what the assesor is probably thinking is looking at the pics - He can't believe the repair costs will cost that much which is fair enough, it doesn't look like a 8k+ job but it is, so i understand why they have instructed Hoopers to view the car.

Those brake calipers are a modification, they did tell me the claim went before an underwriters for review for the mods and they are "please to tell me that the checks can back find in regards to declared mods" - So obviously they were looking for ways not to pay out - I'm glad I declared everything..

The airbags didn't go off, however the airbag light kept appearing on and off, intermittently, the ESP is on permanently now once they do further checks they may fight the abs pump or whatever it's called needs replacing, which is about another £1000 on top. I won't be happy having the car back with either the ESP light on, and the airbags replaced, it's a safety hazard and there's no guarantee the airbag deploys when I get the car back and i'm driving, now they either replace those too, or write the car off. I'm stuffed either way as for the next 5 years, I will be paying through the nose for something not my fault.

I've got the report here, there's nothing on here that would say the claim costs are inflated, far from it..










I may come across slightly OTT but the insurers are just trying to get the done on the cheap and i'm not having it, I pay my premiums and in the event of a claim - I expect them to provide the services they are should be providing, promptly and professionally, they aren't do this are are trying to get the car repaired on the cheap, I'm not having it. I want the car back in the position it was prior to the incident, if they don't want to do that then write it off. The report costs are not inflated whatsoever.

[matjk]

Of course the insurance will want to do it as cheaply as possible. Also garages have a habit of changing absolutely eveything when they get wind it's a insurance job, for example there's lots of left hand side and right hand side bits being changes but the photo looks like just one side , obviously we can't see all the damage in the photos but that's the sort of thing the insurance company are going to question. Hope you get it all sorted to your satisfaction, I would be fuming as it wasn't your fault and now your going to be out of pocket. Looks like a nice car too, I like the S3

[captainhook]

matjk said:

Of course the insurance will want to do it as cheaply as possible. Also garages have a habit of changing absolutely eveything when they get wind it's a insurance job, for example there's lots of left hand side and right hand side bits being changes but the photo looks like just one side , obviously we can't see all the damage in the photos but that's the sort of thing the insurance company are going to question. Hope you get it all sorted to your satisfaction, I would be fuming as it wasn't your fault and now your going to be out of pocket. Looks like a nice car too, I like the S3

Damage is on two sides, passenger side wing was crumpled from the impact as both cars collided I was pushed into barrier and went up a curb. - They are also disputing the cars front wheel curb marks too stating it wasn't from the crash but the car was not curbed before incident and no one drives my car, it's just not right, I will be on their case everyday until they get fed up of me.

Thanks, it was a nice car, the damage isn't major but now it's all happened, I've just lost interest in it and faith in it, It will never be the same again, - I just hope it's all resolved come the end of next week.

[Andehh]

Sorry to hear OP, any updates?

[captainhook]

Andehh said:

Sorry to hear OP, any updates?

Hi yes, the insurance stated the repair costs were inflated and said that one of the wheels damaged wasn't caused by the incident and they disputed that a passenger side area of the car was not from the incident.. To be fair if I was looking at the pictures from a computer I would also think that estimate cannot be right, which was what my insurers claim handler was telling me their assessors was having difficulties grasping after the bodyshop sent them images and repair costs amount..

An assessor from hoopers, fairly nice chap to be fair came to view the car at the bodyshop, quite quickly came to the conclusion that the all the replacement parts the audi approved repairer put on the estimate was needed and the passenger side area and wheel was in fact damaged from the accident.

The repair costs came just under £8,000 so not a write off, however I'm getting increasingly frustrated with the bodyshop it's now at. I've tried to get through to the chap at the Audi approved bodyshop countless times to ask if i'm going to liable for the difference in their hourly labour rate and he has failed to return my calls after messages upon messages have been left by the first line of contact (receptionists) - My insurance company said they they would only pay the 27PHR labour rate charge that their approved repairer would charge, any difference in the labour rate, I would be liable for that amount, which would be around £700+ pounds, I refuse to pay any more out of my pocket for an accident that was not my fault plus having to pay my excess of £500.

I'm in a difficult situation now, I don't want to use an insurers approved repairer, they will use pattern parts and not do the job properly, if they can guarantee they will purchase genuine audi approved parts and show me invoices to prove they have done so, I will just bite the bullet and end up using them if the bodyshop i've taken the car to, says i'm going to be liable for the difference in labour rate charges.

I've asked my insurance co to just let me sort the car out myself however they are being funny about it saying they would only offer a cash in lieu if parts for the car was not available or it was a classic - I don't understand the difference really them paying the bodyshop or them paying me - though I understand a cash in lieu settlement of damages can raise flags with any insurance company suspecting possible fraud but it's a 100% legit claim and i'll be using the settlement to repair the car, bit silly really, would of had the car on the road by now.

Edited by captainhook on Monday 20th March 22:16

[mr rusty]

captainhook said:

I don't want to use an insurers approved repairer, they will use pattern parts and not do the job properly,

An option is to write to your insurance company expressing your concerns, and put them on notice that as soon as you collect your "repaired" vehicle it will be submitted to an Audi dealer for a full inspection/test/check. Anything that is found to be substandard and the car will either be returned for further repairs or you will get the car repaired elsewhere and sue for the difference. At least putting them on notice might sharpen their minds to do a decent job.

[Red Devil]

captainhook said:

KungFuPanda said:

Are Markerstudy your own insurer?

Yes markerstudy are my own insurance co.

As soon as I saw that name the first time you mentioned it, two words sprang to mind. Oh dear...

The acid test with any insurer is not the quoted premium but how it handles a claim.
You can't find from personal experience up front so you have to rely on the collective experience of others.
Based on that I wouldn't touch the company in question with the proverbial bargepole.

captainhook said:

It's not as if I paid for the cheapest policy ether I've paid them 2400 for the year. Wish I done my research on them on comparethemarket there's hundreds of the same complaints about them.

If you use an intermediary you should always ask who the policy is with, then do some checks before committing to buy.

[dacouch]

Red Devil said:

captainhook said:

KungFuPanda said:

Are Markerstudy your own insurer?

Yes markerstudy are my own insurance co.

As soon as I saw that name the first time you mentioned it, two words sprang to mind. Oh dear...

The acid test with any insurer is not the quoted premium but how it handles a claim.
You can't find from personal experience up front so you have to rely on the collective experience of others.
Based on that I wouldn't touch the company in question with the proverbial bargepole.

captainhook said:

It's not as if I paid for the cheapest policy ether I've paid them 2400 for the year. Wish I done my research on them on comparethemarket there's hundreds of the same complaints about them.

If you use an intermediary you should always ask who the policy is with, then do some checks before committing to buy.

Marker Study could it get any worse?

Erm yes, the third party Insurer is cough Tradex...

[captainhook]

Marketstudy are claiming they are still "awaiting the report" from the the independent assessor, they should have it by the morning so will give them a call back then.

Honestly what a nightmare company to deal with, I honestly wished I've done my research on them before taking out the policy, I would have never have gone near them if I knew the true extent of how bad they are when it comes to claiming - denying claims on technicalities, taking months to sort out simple repairs, the list goes on. How can the likes of FOS, the insurance regulator and so on allow companies like them to get away with it? I wonder what is the percentage of claims they refuse to pay out on for minor technicalities. They should be given strong words to clean up their acts or face sanctions or for the better, complete closure.

I feel like jumping off a cliff, i'm bitter with the idiot who drove off with without stopping and exchanging details, thus making me deal with these chancers and sorry excuse of an insurance company, I've done caring now, they are refusing to pay the difference in the labor rate of my Audi approved repairer which means I will have make up the labor rate difference - My only hope is over the coming days - the audi approved bodyshop and my insurers can come to an agreement on the labor rate so I can use them and not pay a penny to fix the damage. If not, i'll just use their approved repairers, if i'm not happy with the work, get my own independent assessor and if he agrees, take the car elsewhere, bill the insurers for the work to be rectified and threaten to go down the FOS route if they don't play ball.

[PH XKR]

captainhook said:

Yeah It was silly going to the garage and asking about the car, of course he's going to deny it.

Going to the papers won't achieve nothing if It would make a difference then I would 100% be behind the idea.

Thanks, the vehicle registration is BG04RRV silver Renault Megane.

So now the car is in the process of being inspected on Monday through my own Insurance co, will have to pay excess (£500)

After telling them that I don't want to use their crappy approved bodyshop repairer (that's if the car isn't categorised) I was told if I went down the route of using my own choice of repairer, I would be liable for the courtesy car costs? WTH? The claims company is their own in house one and they said on the phone that I wouldn't be liable for any costs as long as I was cooperative with their enquiries and the claim wasn't fraudulent....

I'm hoping my car is a write off anyway, don't have faith in it ever be the same. 2010 Audi S3, 34,000 miles, fully loaded, 8 very short owners. If this one was a cat albeit slightly double miles then I'm hoping mine is and I can buy it back for pennies. (rolls eyes) https://www.copart.co.uk/lot/22725387/?resultIndex...

Here's the damage.
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|http://thumbsnap.com/rId6TUWh[/url]

No way on this green earth is that claim worth the write off figure you are so hopeful of achieving.

[andymc]

get it fixed and trade it in mate