Private Parking Charge, England
Discussion
I have parking charge from Euro Car Parks. They are associated with the BPA.
Charge is for a stay of 14 mins in one of their carparks with ANPR detection.
There were two payment machines, neither of them accepted payment by credit card even though there was nothing wrong with the credit card.
What is the way of least effort to make this go away?
Charge is for a stay of 14 mins in one of their carparks with ANPR detection.
There were two payment machines, neither of them accepted payment by credit card even though there was nothing wrong with the credit card.
What is the way of least effort to make this go away?
Soft appeal to ECP to get a POPLA code, then a more robust appeal to POPLA to get it cancelled on one of many grounds.
ECP are a bit rubbish at POFA compliance, so no keeper liability should be the first point, followed by proof of landowner authority. MSE/Pepipoo will guide you on the specifics.
Or if you CBA with all of that, pay the £60. But this is akin to throwing a chip to a seagull...
ECP are a bit rubbish at POFA compliance, so no keeper liability should be the first point, followed by proof of landowner authority. MSE/Pepipoo will guide you on the specifics.
Or if you CBA with all of that, pay the £60. But this is akin to throwing a chip to a seagull...
What of appealing on the grounds of inability to pay due to failure of Euro Car Parks payment system, which was outside my control?
I was in charge of the vehicle. I am not the registered keeper. I'm also an Australian citizen. Should I just ask the keeper to nominate me with my Australian address and file the new charge notice in the bin if it actually turns up in Australia?
I was in charge of the vehicle. I am not the registered keeper. I'm also an Australian citizen. Should I just ask the keeper to nominate me with my Australian address and file the new charge notice in the bin if it actually turns up in Australia?
Faulty machines is a decent defence, and one that is winning in courts when provable - I read it that your only had a card to pay with, not that the card wasn't being read.
In your position, I'd appeal as driver, name yourself at a UK address, soft appeal that the machines were not working, then a POPLA appeal if it hasn't already been dropped by that point.
By all means you could name yourself as driver with your Australian address, and hopefully they will drop the matter, but I'd not be surprised if they lay it on thick with the registered keeper and try to hold them liable.
In your position, I'd appeal as driver, name yourself at a UK address, soft appeal that the machines were not working, then a POPLA appeal if it hasn't already been dropped by that point.
By all means you could name yourself as driver with your Australian address, and hopefully they will drop the matter, but I'd not be surprised if they lay it on thick with the registered keeper and try to hold them liable.
S11Steve said:
Soft appeal to ECP to get a POPLA code, then a more robust appeal to POPLA to get it cancelled on one of many grounds.
ECP are a bit rubbish at POFA compliance, so no keeper liability should be the first point, followed by proof of landowner authority. MSE/Pepipoo will guide you on the specifics.
Or if you CBA with all of that, pay the £60. But this is akin to throwing a chip to a seagull...
Amen. ECP are a bit rubbish at POFA compliance, so no keeper liability should be the first point, followed by proof of landowner authority. MSE/Pepipoo will guide you on the specifics.
Or if you CBA with all of that, pay the £60. But this is akin to throwing a chip to a seagull...
If you need help with the POPLA appeal then head on over to MSE Parking fine forums, look at the sticky at the top to see what grounds appeals are won on although IME this is usually random. Singnage used to be one of the main winners... Its not rocket science but POPLA appeal can be created using other people's templates and examples. Really isnt that hard.
They also have a soft appeal template you can use to get a POPLA code. Euro will of course know this is an internet template and try convince you it holds no weight and youre going to go to prison then executed on an electric chair. Ive appealed long before the Notice to keeper arrived with no issue if you want to get on with things...
S11Steve said:
Faulty machines is a decent defence, and one that is winning in courts when provable - I read it that your only had a card to pay with, not that the card wasn't being read.
Payment was declined in both of the two Euro Car Park payment machines in the carpark. Payment was also declined with a second card in both of the machines. I then left the carpark and parked at a nearby NCP car park and the credit card worked fine and has ever since. Nothing is/was wrong with the credit card and even if it was, I left the car park as soon as it became evident that I would not be able to pay. S11Steve said:
In your position, I'd appeal as driver, name yourself at a UK address, soft appeal that the machines were not working, then a POPLA appeal if it hasn't already been dropped by that point.
I'd like to soft appeal but I'm very reluctant to use a UK address as my ultimate end game if all else were to fail would be to throw all their letters in a great Down Under bin. creampuff said:
S11Steve said:
Faulty machines is a decent defence, and one that is winning in courts when provable - I read it that your only had a card to pay with, not that the card wasn't being read.
Payment was declined in both of the two Euro Car Park payment machines in the carpark. Payment was also declined with a second card in both of the machines. I then left the carpark and parked at a nearby NCP car park and the credit card worked fine and has ever since. creampuff said:
I was in charge of the vehicle. I am not the registered keeper. I'm also an Australian citizen. Should I just ask the keeper to nominate me with my Australian address and file the new charge notice in the bin if it actually turns up in Australia?
Yep, get the keeper to nominate you and ensure they provide an Australian address. In the extremely unlikely event anything turns up in Oz, file in the bin.S11Steve said:
Faulty machines is a decent defence, and one that is winning in courts when provable - I read it that your only had a card to pay with, not that the card wasn't being read.
In your position, I'd appeal as driver, name yourself at a UK address, soft appeal that the machines were not working, then a POPLA appeal if it hasn't already been dropped by that point.
By all means you could name yourself as driver with your Australian address, and hopefully they will drop the matter, but I'd not be surprised if they lay it on thick with the registered keeper and try to hold them liable.
The PPC could try it on with the RK but if it attempts to use PoFA 2012 liability it would fail.In your position, I'd appeal as driver, name yourself at a UK address, soft appeal that the machines were not working, then a POPLA appeal if it hasn't already been dropped by that point.
By all means you could name yourself as driver with your Australian address, and hopefully they will drop the matter, but I'd not be surprised if they lay it on thick with the registered keeper and try to hold them liable.
PofA 2012 said:
Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4
5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—
(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
(b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.
Once the creditor has been provided with the details per 5(b) it cannot invoke keeper liability. The legislation does not require the service address to be in the UK.5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—
(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges; but
(b)is unable to take steps to enforce that requirement against the driver because the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver.
However I'm curious how the OP managed to receive a NtK if, as he has stated, he is not the RK. Something doesn't add up here.
Red Devil said:
Once the creditor has been provided with the details per 5(b) it cannot invoke keeper liability. The legislation does not require the service address to be in the UK.
I think we both know what should happen is not necessarily what does happen!(MIL have dropped a claim against me today... I was looking forward to a day out in Truro too!)
OP, you are being very nice towards them.
If it was me I would write a letter giving them my home address in Oz, send it recorded delivery, and tell them I couldn't pay because the card machine wouldn't accept my internationally accepted card. I would point out that any liability is entirely mine and invite them to reply to me at my Australian address.
They will almost certainly just give up.
If it was me I would write a letter giving them my home address in Oz, send it recorded delivery, and tell them I couldn't pay because the card machine wouldn't accept my internationally accepted card. I would point out that any liability is entirely mine and invite them to reply to me at my Australian address.
They will almost certainly just give up.
S11Steve said:
Red Devil said:
Once the creditor has been provided with the details per 5(b) it cannot invoke keeper liability. The legislation does not require the service address to be in the UK.
I think we both know what should happen is not necessarily what does happen!(MIL have dropped a claim against me today... I was looking forward to a day out in Truro too!)
Btw, has that shower of
ever secured a victory in court against a proper defence?creampuff said:
Red Devil said:
However I'm curious how the OP managed to receive a NtK if, as he has stated, he is not the RK. Something doesn't add up here.
The PPC would have to be desperate or stupid to issue a claim against someone resident in another country nearly 10k miles from the UK.
Enforcement of any judgement would be impractical never mind the prohibitive cost.
Well the registered keeper has signed the letter nominating me.
I'm still in the UK and I've written a letter saying machine didn't work, tried 2 cards + 2 machines, left carpark immediately it was obvious couldn't pay and inviting ECP to cancel the charge & look at their CCTV footage to watch me putting the cards in the machines. Or write to me in Australia if they have any other plans.
I'm still in the UK and I've written a letter saying machine didn't work, tried 2 cards + 2 machines, left carpark immediately it was obvious couldn't pay and inviting ECP to cancel the charge & look at their CCTV footage to watch me putting the cards in the machines. Or write to me in Australia if they have any other plans.
Edited by creampuff on Monday 27th February 18:48
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