So who is going to admit to 6 points, or knowing someone....

So who is going to admit to 6 points, or knowing someone....

Author
Discussion

rxe

6,700 posts

103 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
quotequote all
Um, well, yes, there is "holding" implied in the term handheld

From gov.uk

Link: https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-drivin...

Text:

It’s illegal to use your phone while driving or riding a motorcycle unless you have hands-free access, such as:

a bluetooth headset
voice command
a dashboard holder

Summary - its the "hand held" which is the issue, not the use. With it stuck on the dashboard, text away....

vonhosen

40,233 posts

217 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
quotequote all
It's hand held & use that are the issue.
Either on their own isn't an offence (under this particular bit of legislation), but both together are.

rxe

6,700 posts

103 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
quotequote all
Which IMO is the massive flaw in this legislation.

If it is dangerous to use Facebook when driving, then it's not more dangerous to use hand held Facebook than dash mounted Facebook. The dangerous bit is the fact that you are looking at a screen, not where you are going.

Couple that with the equality of punishment between doing 70 while Facebooking, and sitting in a traffic jam Facebooking, and you start wondering about the intellect of the people who drafted it.

This is "dangerous dogs" Mk2.

SS2.

14,462 posts

238 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
quotequote all
rxe said:
If it is dangerous to use Facebook when driving, then it's not more dangerous to use hand held Facebook than dash mounted Facebook. The dangerous bit is the fact that you are looking at a screen, not where you are going.

Couple that with the equality of punishment between doing 70 while Facebooking, and sitting in a traffic jam Facebooking, and you start wondering about the intellect of the people who drafted it.
They weren't soothsayers.

p1esk

4,914 posts

196 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
It's hand held & use that are the issue.
Either on their own isn't an offence (under this particular bit of legislation), but both together are.
But what does 'use' mean?

If I pick up my mobile phone from the passenger seat, and all I wish to do is see what time it is, is that an offence?

Some people seem to feel happy that the law is quite clear and reasonable, but to me it isn't; it is neither fully clear nor reasonable.

...and there's still the difficulty, to my mind at least, that the use of CB radios by drivers is (apparently) OK, but hand held mobile phones are not. I've also heard that this is partly on the basis that they each operate on different frequency bands, but that is true, what difference does that make. They can both present a severely distracting effect on the safe functioning of drivers if used in inappropriate circumstances.

rxe

6,700 posts

103 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
quotequote all
p1esk said:
But what does 'use' mean?

If I pick up my mobile phone from the passenger seat, and all I wish to do is see what time it is, is that an offence?

Some people seem to feel happy that the law is quite clear and reasonable, but to me it isn't; it is neither fully clear nor reasonable.

...and there's still the difficulty, to my mind at least, that the use of CB radios by drivers is (apparently) OK, but hand held mobile phones are not. I've also heard that this is partly on the basis that they each operate on different frequency bands, but that is true, what difference does that make. They can both present a severely distracting effect on the safe functioning of drivers if used in inappropriate circumstances.
Yes - picking up your phone to look at the time gets you nicked.

Leaning over to look at the time when your phone is on the passenger seat - is OK.

I'm not sure about turning your phone over to see the time without picking it up.

Operating your phone without picking it up - I believe this is OK. So in theory, phone between legs on driver's seat is OK, as long as you put it there before you set off. Fundamentally this situation is the same as a dash mount, it is "hands free".

Clearly you can still be nicked for not being in control.

p1esk

4,914 posts

196 months

Thursday 30th March 2017
quotequote all
rxe said:
p1esk said:
But what does 'use' mean?

If I pick up my mobile phone from the passenger seat, and all I wish to do is see what time it is, is that an offence?

Some people seem to feel happy that the law is quite clear and reasonable, but to me it isn't; it is neither fully clear nor reasonable.

...and there's still the difficulty, to my mind at least, that the use of CB radios by drivers is (apparently) OK, but hand held mobile phones are not. I've also heard that this is partly on the basis that they each operate on different frequency bands, but if that is true, what difference does that make? They can both present a severely distracting effect on the safe functioning of drivers if used in inappropriate circumstances.
Yes - picking up your phone to look at the time gets you nicked.

Leaning over to look at the time when your phone is on the passenger seat - is OK.

I'm not sure about turning your phone over to see the time without picking it up.

Operating your phone without picking it up - I believe this is OK. So in theory, phone between legs on driver's seat is OK, as long as you put it there before you set off. Fundamentally this situation is the same as a dash mount, it is "hands free".

Clearly you can still be nicked for not being in control.
Well you've cleared up my specific query, assuming your interpretation of the law is correct, but it sounds as if you are not absolutely sure about all aspects of this ridiculous law. I'm not criticising you for that: I don't see how anybody can be expected to know where they are with this dog's dinner (or is it pig's breakfast) of a law, and that includes the twerps that cobbled it together.

"Not being in proper control! would have covered the whole thing quite nicely, and avoided penalising a lot of people quite unjustifiably.

4040vision

255 posts

86 months

Monday 3rd April 2017
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I can't think of any reason why a telephone call or text or application on a mobile telephone MUST be done while driving. Hence the simple and all-encompassing word 'use' is in the definition of the offence.

zarjaz1991

3,480 posts

123 months

Tuesday 4th April 2017
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I don't even use phones hands free these days. More to do with getting annoyed at the poor call quality and straining to hear what people say, but additionally I've always been a "full on concentration" type of driver and I do find phone calls in the car an annoying distraction to that, even if sometimes it's just that I like to observe scenery as well as traffic. I enjoy driving and don't want it spoiled by poxy pointless phone calls from work about complete crap. Also I like to make notes in work phone calls which I obviously can't do in the car.

I told work I wasn't going to answer the phone in the car any more and they are fine with it. Removes a lot of unnecessary stress from journeys.