New petition to getthe Government to raise motorway speed li
Discussion
Spanglepants said:
Having just been on a Driver Awareness course and listening to one of the instructors this seems to be the way its going. We were informed that - in his words- You will never, ever, ever see the limit raised to 80 mph.
Next gem was " everywhere you see a speed camera blood has been spilt "
Next gem was " everywhere you see a speed camera blood has been spilt "
ks of course. Is that before or after the camera went in? We've had a pedestrian death near us almost underneath the bloody camera. None before.It's the intelligent idea, but to challenge the inevitable emotional reaction will of course be difficult. Traffic conditions often make 90 difficult, but it would be good to know 90 would be ok when possible. Plus, if more fuel is used, more tax is paid and the finite amount of fuel will be used up quicker which will keep the greens happy.
I, like surveyor 101, live in the Southwest (Bridgwater) every week I hear on the radio of an accident somewhere between say Weston and Wellington because somebody somewhere evidently can't drive in a straight line. I jump on the M5 every week for the short (7 mile) trip to Burnham and on every occasion now I see dome example of terrible driving. The fact I witness something so often suggests as an average sample it must be common place.
A recent to trip to the NEC was astonishing, the amount of terrible driving, lane discipline, tail gating, pulling into gaps left by cars, massive bunching up in the smart motorway variable speed limit sections, total confusion over the use hard shoulder for congestion, i can only see it gettign worse without better driver training, education about smart motorways (public information programs like the old days?)
I think (as posted before) that speed limits will rarely be allowed to be 70 in the smart motorway sections and the gantry cams will be clobbering anyone who goes over 70.
Driving now is no longer a pleasure. Never thought i would say that.
A recent to trip to the NEC was astonishing, the amount of terrible driving, lane discipline, tail gating, pulling into gaps left by cars, massive bunching up in the smart motorway variable speed limit sections, total confusion over the use hard shoulder for congestion, i can only see it gettign worse without better driver training, education about smart motorways (public information programs like the old days?)
I think (as posted before) that speed limits will rarely be allowed to be 70 in the smart motorway sections and the gantry cams will be clobbering anyone who goes over 70.
Driving now is no longer a pleasure. Never thought i would say that.
The likelihood of any speed limit increasing in this country is zero
When everyday there are multiple car crashes of consequence on very long straight bits of road the chances are
They will only ever reduce the limit and put more and more anti driving rhetoric into the system,
See driverless cars for details
When everyday there are multiple car crashes of consequence on very long straight bits of road the chances are
They will only ever reduce the limit and put more and more anti driving rhetoric into the system,
See driverless cars for details
cmaguire said:
To you perhaps, to me that sounds so dull I'd probably fall asleep and if not I'd perhaps ram a flyover upright head-on in an attempt to end it all.
Driving or riding quickly and competently requires way more skill than that, although the default standpoint of the authorities and those that support them insists that any claim to competence ceases as soon as one of their pedestrian limits is exceeded.
So you use or your skill doing 80mph on a motorway?Driving or riding quickly and competently requires way more skill than that, although the default standpoint of the authorities and those that support them insists that any claim to competence ceases as soon as one of their pedestrian limits is exceeded.
If I want to develop and enjoy a drive i come off the motorway and find a a and B roads for a blast.
Motorways are not supposed to be exciting. They are supposed to be safe for higher speed travel in a relatively straight line.
My stretch of the m5 has shed loads of accidents. Tons of middle lane hoggers, elephant racing.
The other morning between 25-22 I was in the 3 rd lane trying to go 70 when twice the traffic stopped completely at almost emergency stop conditions. Lane 2-1 carried on flowing. I got further up and it was two wide load lorries and an escort van hogging 1-2 and people swerving into 3 at the last minute and braking causing the stoppage.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Sunday 19th March 20:50
surveyor_101 said:
So you use or your skill doing 80mph on a motorway?
If I want to develop and enjoy a drive i come off the motorway and find a a and B roads for a blast.
Motorways are not supposed to be exciting. They are supposed to be safe for higher speed travel in a relatively straight line.
My stretch of the m5 has shed loads of accidents. Tons of middle lane hoggers, elephant racing.
The other morning between 25-22 I was in the 3 rd lane trying to go 70 when twice the traffic stopped completely at almost emergency stop conditions. Lane 2-1 carried on flowing. I got further up and it was two wide load lorries and an escort van hogging 1-2 and people swerving into 3 at the last minute and braking causing the stoppage.
All depends on the conditions surely. I'm often on the M11 late evening and rather enjoy cruising at 80. The same road when busy is a different matter.If I want to develop and enjoy a drive i come off the motorway and find a a and B roads for a blast.
Motorways are not supposed to be exciting. They are supposed to be safe for higher speed travel in a relatively straight line.
My stretch of the m5 has shed loads of accidents. Tons of middle lane hoggers, elephant racing.
The other morning between 25-22 I was in the 3 rd lane trying to go 70 when twice the traffic stopped completely at almost emergency stop conditions. Lane 2-1 carried on flowing. I got further up and it was two wide load lorries and an escort van hogging 1-2 and people swerving into 3 at the last minute and braking causing the stoppage.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Sunday 19th March 20:50
bad company said:
All depends on the conditions surely. I'm often on the M11 late evening and rather enjoy cruising at 80. The same road when busy is a different matter.
80 65/70 what's the diff not a massive pace change in a straight line and one saves you 20-30% fuel.Do mean to say when it's quiet I match speed to view?
At 8am and 5.30-6pm it's follow leader stuff, it's 60-70-80-60 in lane 3 or cruise and 65-70 lane 1/2 and save a loads of fuel.
surveyor_101 said:
bad company said:
All depends on the conditions surely. I'm often on the M11 late evening and rather enjoy cruising at 80. The same road when busy is a different matter.
80 65/70 what's the diff not a massive pace change in a straight line and one saves you 20-30% fuel.Do mean to say when it's quiet I match speed to view?
At 8am and 5.30-6pm it's follow leader stuff, it's 60-70-80-60 in lane 3 or cruise and 65-70 lane 1/2 and save a loads of fuel.
Now an autobahn on a good day.
Flibble said:
Than 70 mph I'd assume. Aero drag at 80 is 50% higher than at 70, and is the main source of resistance at those speeds. You spend 14% less time in the area, but use 50% more energy doing it, so energy used per mile would be about 30% higher, hence emissions in any given area will be higher (probably not 30% higher, but 20% ish seems reasonable).
Where do you get that bks from? If I do 70, I get about 55mpg in my VRS. If I do 80, I get about 51... At 85ish I get 48 ish...surveyor_101 said:
cmaguire said:
To you perhaps, to me that sounds so dull I'd probably fall asleep and if not I'd perhaps ram a flyover upright head-on in an attempt to end it all.
Driving or riding quickly and competently requires way more skill than that, although the default standpoint of the authorities and those that support them insists that any claim to competence ceases as soon as one of their pedestrian limits is exceeded.
So you use or your skill doing 80mph on a motorway?Driving or riding quickly and competently requires way more skill than that, although the default standpoint of the authorities and those that support them insists that any claim to competence ceases as soon as one of their pedestrian limits is exceeded.
If I want to develop and enjoy a drive i come off the motorway and find a a and B roads for a blast.
Motorways are not supposed to be exciting. They are supposed to be safe for higher speed travel in a relatively straight line.
My stretch of the m5 has shed loads of accidents. Tons of middle lane hoggers, elephant racing.
The other morning between 25-22 I was in the 3 rd lane trying to go 70 when twice the traffic stopped completely at almost emergency stop conditions. Lane 2-1 carried on flowing. I got further up and it was two wide load lorries and an escort van hogging 1-2 and people swerving into 3 at the last minute and braking causing the stoppage.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Sunday 19th March 20:50
Accidents are fairly rare on the M5 north of Bristol, and, as I understand, south of Taunton
Dr Jekyll said:
The problem I find with trucks is that in a 50 limit they often regard driving on the limiter is close enough and seem to think that by tailgating they can intimidate other drivers into exceeding 50 as well.
Que professional rapist/king of the road claiming their speedo is super dooper more accurate than yoursJim1556 said:
Where do you get that bks from? If I do 70, I get about 55mpg in my VRS. If I do 80, I get about 51... At 85ish I get 48 ish...
You should get it looked at, as something's clearly being too efficient on your car at 70. ks from? If I do 70, I get about 55mpg in my VRS. If I do 80, I get about 51... At 85ish I get 48 ish...
BTW, IIRC, resistance squares with speed. Subject to gearing and engine performance at various revs, every incremental increase in speed will result in an increasing rate of MPG reduction. For example, your MPG will reduce by a greater degree if you go from 100 to 110mph than it would going from 90-100.
Jim1556 said:
Flibble said:
Than 70 mph I'd assume. Aero drag at 80 is 50% higher than at 70, and is the main source of resistance at those speeds. You spend 14% less time in the area, but use 50% more energy doing it, so energy used per mile would be about 30% higher, hence emissions in any given area will be higher (probably not 30% higher, but 20% ish seems reasonable).
Where do you get that bks from? If I do 70, I get about 55mpg in my VRS. If I do 80, I get about 51... At 85ish I get 48 ish...This is fairly basic physics, and has been known for well over 100 years. Just because you eyeballed your (inaccurate) onboard MPG counter a few times and kid yourself 85 mph is basically the same efficiency as 70 mph doesn't mean it is. You'd hope someone who describes themselves as an aircraft engineer would have some knowledge of this!
Flibble said:
It's from the drag equation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation
This is fairly basic physics, and has been known for well over 100 years. Just because you eyeballed your (inaccurate) onboard MPG counter a few times and kid yourself 85 mph is basically the same efficiency as 70 mph doesn't mean it is. You'd hope someone who describes themselves as an aircraft engineer would have some knowledge of this!
It's also more complex than that.This is fairly basic physics, and has been known for well over 100 years. Just because you eyeballed your (inaccurate) onboard MPG counter a few times and kid yourself 85 mph is basically the same efficiency as 70 mph doesn't mean it is. You'd hope someone who describes themselves as an aircraft engineer would have some knowledge of this!
Some vehicles also apply different engine modes at higher speeds. I was told that some Lexus engines get very thirsty above 85mph (?) - not because of the aero, but they increase fuelling to help cool the catalyst. Note, I'm not an engineer.
Vaud said:
It's also more complex than that.
Some vehicles also apply different engine modes at higher speeds. I was told that some Lexus engines get very thirsty above 85mph (?) - not because of the aero, but they increase fuelling to help cool the catalyst. Note, I'm not an engineer.
Yes, it's a rather simplified look as there is still rolling resistance for instance, and engine efficiency increases with increasing speed typically (for petrols at least due to lower throttling losses).Some vehicles also apply different engine modes at higher speeds. I was told that some Lexus engines get very thirsty above 85mph (?) - not because of the aero, but they increase fuelling to help cool the catalyst. Note, I'm not an engineer.
Usually over fuelling would heat the catalyst (extra fuel in the cat means more heat), but it will reduce cylinder and exhaust gas temperatures so that might be the bigger issue.
Flibble said:
It's from the drag equation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation
This is fairly basic physics, and has been known for well over 100 years. Just because you eyeballed your (inaccurate) onboard MPG counter a few times and kid yourself 85 mph is basically the same efficiency as 70 mph doesn't mean it is. You'd hope someone who describes themselves as an aircraft engineer would have some knowledge of this!
On board computer inaccuracies aside, it was the 50% figure you quoted in had an issue with. Going from 70 to 80mph does not increase my fuel consumption by anywhere near that much. I'm well aware of drag thanks... This is fairly basic physics, and has been known for well over 100 years. Just because you eyeballed your (inaccurate) onboard MPG counter a few times and kid yourself 85 mph is basically the same efficiency as 70 mph doesn't mean it is. You'd hope someone who describes themselves as an aircraft engineer would have some knowledge of this!
Jim1556 said:
Flibble said:
It's from the drag equation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_equation
This is fairly basic physics, and has been known for well over 100 years. Just because you eyeballed your (inaccurate) onboard MPG counter a few times and kid yourself 85 mph is basically the same efficiency as 70 mph doesn't mean it is. You'd hope someone who describes themselves as an aircraft engineer would have some knowledge of this!
On board computer inaccuracies aside, it was the 50% figure you quoted in had an issue with. Going from 70 to 80mph does not increase my fuel consumption by anywhere near that much. I'm well aware of drag thanks... This is fairly basic physics, and has been known for well over 100 years. Just because you eyeballed your (inaccurate) onboard MPG counter a few times and kid yourself 85 mph is basically the same efficiency as 70 mph doesn't mean it is. You'd hope someone who describes themselves as an aircraft engineer would have some knowledge of this!
Government needs to grow some and do what's wanted and right. Who cares how much fuel is used other than the individual paying for it???
Davidonly said:
We ought to place more emphasis on freedom of choice. I feel the state intervenes far to much where its not required to do so. The 70 NSL is out of date. Everyone knows it. An increase is supported by a significant majority. The pressure groups have also had too much sway across our society for too many years.
Government needs to grow some and do what's wanted and right.
Setting the arguments of safety vs speed aside, how about the increases in pollution?Government needs to grow some and do what's wanted and right.
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