Ministers question Speed Awareness Course effectiveness.

[Gavia]

Hackney said:

Gavia said:

Why does it matter whether they work or not? It's a free pass for a low level speeding offence.

You may not get points but they're not free.

Really? It's a free pass in the sense that you don't get points and a fine, you just pay a similar amount to the fine (sometimes less). You also don't pay more in insurance, unless you're stupid and own up to the only company that asks (Admiral). Oh and you still have 12 points to play with.

I'd call that a free pass.

[Mill Wheel]

djc206 said:

Gavia said:

Why does it matter whether they work or not? It's a free pass for a low level speeding offence.

Bingo. One day I will get caught speeding and hope that I can do a course to save me the 3 points. I don't care if they work or not.

But why would three points matter, unless you were planning on getting enough to be banned?
Some insurance companies have already realised that the courses were preventing them from assessing a risk, and are now asking if you have been on a course - to which you have to be honest or risk your insurance!
The cost of the courses balances or exceeds the fines, and you have to give up your time to attend.

You can attend Road Awareness Training (RAT) courses in Cumbria for free at the local Fire Station if you feel you would benefit from a little tuition... or join the IAM!

[Gavia]

Mill Wheel said:

But why would three points matter, unless you were planning on getting enough to be banned?
Some insurance companies have already realised that the courses were preventing them from assessing a risk, and are now asking if you have been on a course - to which you have to be honest or risk your insurance!
The cost of the courses balances or exceeds the fines, and you have to give up your time to attend.

You can attend Road Awareness Training (RAT) courses in Cumbria for free at the local Fire Station if you feel you would benefit from a little tuition... or join the IAM!

Nobody plans on being caught once, let alone amassing 12+ points, but we balance the risk of getting caught with the reward of going a bit too fast. If there's a way to reduce the chance of getting banned then I'm all for not.

The fine is the fine. I'll be paying it one way or the other if I'm caught so the cost is moot. The points matter to me and only one insurance company (and their brands) asks about SACs not the "some" that you've increased it to. Most insurers will charge me more for having 3 points and hat gets expensive with 6 vehicles to insure.

My time was not given voluntarily, but I'd rather have a lost three hours than 3 points on my licence for the next four years. I wouldn't attend a course out of choice, nor do I want to grow a beard and join the IAM.

[cmaguire]

Gavia said:

Nobody plans on being caught once, let alone amassing 12+ points, but we balance the risk of getting caught with the reward of going a bit too fast. If there's a way to reduce the chance of getting banned then I'm all for not.

The fine is the fine. I'll be paying it one way or the other if I'm caught so the cost is moot. The points matter to me and only one insurance company (and their brands) asks about SACs not the "some" that you've increased it to. Most insurers will charge me more for having 3 points and hat gets expensive with 6 vehicles to insure.

My time was not given voluntarily, but I'd rather have a lost three hours than 3 points on my licence for the next four years. I wouldn't attend a course out of choice, nor do I want to grow a beard and join the IAM.

Your viewpoint in no way vindicates these courses, and more so confirms that they are mostly pointless (I know).
They may be of use to a few but for most, including you and me, they just avoid points. In essence the authorities might just as well send you a letter ticking you off, demanding £100 and telling you that the next time you will get the points.

[Engineer792]

Gavia said:

Nobody plans on being caught once, let alone amassing 12+ points, but we balance the risk of getting caught with the reward of going a bit too fast.

What is this 'reward' of which you speak?

[BertBert]

Just got a course, just under 3 years since the last one! So I would have been on 6 points now. I'm more comfortable to be on 0 points. And you never know, if I can hold in my natural instinct to be a knob, I might just learn or be reminded of something!
Hey ho.
Bert

[supersport]

cmaguire said:

Your viewpoint in no way vindicates these courses, and more so confirms that they are mostly pointless (I know).
They may be of use to a few but for most, including you and me, they just avoid points. In essence the authorities might just as well send you a letter ticking you off, demanding £100 and telling you that the next time you will get the points.

The points are on your licence for 5 years as far as we insurance is concerned. My insurance co just charged an admin fee to tell them, £25 i think. The course if it had been offered was more expensive than fine + admin fee. But you keep a clean licence.

[Gavia]

Engineer792 said:

What is this 'reward' of which you speak?

Not being bored to tears

[0000]

Engineer792 said:

Gavia said:

Nobody plans on being caught once, let alone amassing 12+ points, but we balance the risk of getting caught with the reward of going a bit too fast.

What is this 'reward' of which you speak?

Hours, even days, back on your life. Whatever that may be worth to you. Getting to see the kids before bedtime, spending more time with your wife, etc.

If your time is worthless there's no reward.

[eldar]

Engineer792 said:

What is this 'reward' of which you speak?

Time.

[Gavia]

cmaguire said:

Your viewpoint in no way vindicates these courses, and more so confirms that they are mostly pointless (I know).
They may be of use to a few but for most, including you and me, they just avoid points. In essence the authorities might just as well send you a letter ticking you off, demanding £100 and telling you that the next time you will get the points.

Whether it validates (vindicates is far too emotive a word) the course or not is moot. It means I keep a clean licence for being caught once for one of many, many indiscretions. That to me is validation that they bare worthwhile. The one I went on recently reconfirmed how clueless most people are when driving.

Inknewninwas speeding, I knew the speed limit but just ballsed up as for frustrated with others dawdling. The people on my course guessed that an NSL was anywhere between a 20 and a 70 mph limit, few knew what many road signs meant and they might, just might, have learned something. Even if one has then to me that's better than a stick.

[Gavia]

BertBert said:

Just got a course, just under 3 years since the last one! So I would have been on 6 points now. I'm more comfortable to be on 0 points. And you never know, if I can hold in my natural instinct to be a knob, I might just learn or be reminded of something!
Hey ho.
Bert

Just had we threebyears since the last offence or course? If under three between offences then they may withdraw the offer

[singlecoil]

Mill Wheel said:

You might remember..

To avoid doubt, perhaps you would say what you would prefer the position to be, for instance, that speed awareness courses should be abolished and replaced with points/fines? Or that the prosecution thresholds should be raised? Speed limits increased? Speed limits abolished?

I gather that you are complaining, but as a specialist in complaints myself I know that the first rule of complaining is that you decide what you want to have happen, and make that clear.

[Engineer792]

eldar and others said:

Engineer792 said:

What is this 'reward' of which you speak?

Time.

But there are those, even on this forum, who would argue that you gain a few seconds at most, and that's probably only until the next traffic queue

[Engineer792]

Gavia said:

Engineer792 said:

What is this 'reward' of which you speak?

Not being bored to tears

So you exceed the limit by less than the points threshold, and that stops you from being bored?

[Engineer792]

singlecoil said:

Mill Wheel said:

You might remember..

To avoid doubt, perhaps you would say what you would prefer the position to be, for instance, that speed awareness courses should be abolished and replaced with points/fines? Or that the prosecution thresholds should be raised? Speed limits increased? Speed limits abolished?

I gather that you are complaining, but as a specialist in complaints myself I know that the first rule of complaining is that you decide what you want to have happen, and make that clear.

It's like deja vu all over again

[singlecoil]

Engineer792 said:

singlecoil said:

Mill Wheel said:

You might remember..

To avoid doubt, perhaps you would say what you would prefer the position to be, for instance, that speed awareness courses should be abolished and replaced with points/fines? Or that the prosecution thresholds should be raised? Speed limits increased? Speed limits abolished?

I gather that you are complaining, but as a specialist in complaints myself I know that the first rule of complaining is that you decide what you want to have happen, and make that clear.

It's like deja vu all over again

I'm hoping he won't avoid the question this time. If he does, I will ask him again.

[djc206]

Mill Wheel said:

But why would three points matter, unless you were planning on getting enough to be banned?
Some insurance companies have already realised that the courses were preventing them from assessing a risk, and are now asking if you have been on a course - to which you have to be honest or risk your insurance!
The cost of the courses balances or exceeds the fines, and you have to give up your time to attend.

You can attend Road Awareness Training (RAT) courses in Cumbria for free at the local Fire Station if you feel you would benefit from a little tuition... or join the IAM!

Endorsements push insurance costs up. SAC's do not need to be declared to most insurance companies including mine. It's not that much time and as a shift worker I wouldn't need to take any time off work to attend one.

I don't need tuition but I don't need points and the associated costs either especially when the powers that be have offered us a way around them.

[p1esk]

Engineer792 said:

Gavia said:

Nobody plans on being caught once, let alone amassing 12+ points, but we balance the risk of getting caught with the reward of going a bit too fast.

What is this 'reward' of which you speak?

I think he means the enjoyment of driving at speeds in excess of the NSL. Surely none of us ever drives too fast, do we? I don't think I do, but admittedly NSL compliance is a quite different matter.

[sospan]

I did a course yesterday. The people running it were excellent. I would like to see a refresher lesson with an instructor every 10 years when the photo license photo can be updated. Road conditions are becoming more busy/complex but drivers are not refreshed . These days instructors teach markedly different techniques to learners.
Now, waiting for scornfull replies from "driving gods"!
Your attitude to the course governs what you get out of it. Disinterest and a closed mind means you don't learn anything.