Consumer Rights Question - Work carried out at a garage
Discussion
Spangles said:
xjay1337 said:
Spangles said:
If he's not clever enough to diagnose the issue without randomly swapping parts then he should get another job.
Have you ever dealt with annoying electrical issues on cars?Woody3 said:
I've not updated my garage recently - it's a 2012 V40.
I'm at absolute loggerheads with the garage at the moment.
Labour is being charged for 10hrs (fair enough, I'll take this on the chin) and the part that was the issue was only £40 - the total bill is coming out at £530 (+ £250 for wrongly diagnosed wiper motor and £120 for wrongly diagnosed starter relay), which takes it up to a massive £900!
They are refusing to accept that it's not right that they should be charging me for parts that didn't need changing and are no longer on the car. They are saying that they are waiting for a response from Volvo to see if they can have a refund on the parts (they've actually been returned to Volvo) and they don't expect to hear from them until Friday.
It's now been fixed a week and we're without a car.
I don't understand how they think this is reasonable.
What was the problem that led them to wrongly thinking it was a wiper motor or starter relay? Seems an odd combination.I'm at absolute loggerheads with the garage at the moment.
Labour is being charged for 10hrs (fair enough, I'll take this on the chin) and the part that was the issue was only £40 - the total bill is coming out at £530 (+ £250 for wrongly diagnosed wiper motor and £120 for wrongly diagnosed starter relay), which takes it up to a massive £900!
They are refusing to accept that it's not right that they should be charging me for parts that didn't need changing and are no longer on the car. They are saying that they are waiting for a response from Volvo to see if they can have a refund on the parts (they've actually been returned to Volvo) and they don't expect to hear from them until Friday.
It's now been fixed a week and we're without a car.
I don't understand how they think this is reasonable.
Woody3 said:
I've not updated my garage recently - it's a 2012 V40.
I'm at absolute loggerheads with the garage at the moment.
Labour is being charged for 10hrs (fair enough, I'll take this on the chin) and the part that was the issue was only £40 - the total bill is coming out at £530 (+ £250 for wrongly diagnosed wiper motor and £120 for wrongly diagnosed starter relay), which takes it up to a massive £900!
They are refusing to accept that it's not right that they should be charging me for parts that didn't need changing and are no longer on the car. They are saying that they are waiting for a response from Volvo to see if they can have a refund on the parts (they've actually been returned to Volvo) and they don't expect to hear from them until Friday.
It's now been fixed a week and we're without a car.
I don't understand how they think this is reasonable
So they are trying to charge you for parts that they can't even give you? (at the moment)I'm at absolute loggerheads with the garage at the moment.
Labour is being charged for 10hrs (fair enough, I'll take this on the chin) and the part that was the issue was only £40 - the total bill is coming out at £530 (+ £250 for wrongly diagnosed wiper motor and £120 for wrongly diagnosed starter relay), which takes it up to a massive £900!
They are refusing to accept that it's not right that they should be charging me for parts that didn't need changing and are no longer on the car. They are saying that they are waiting for a response from Volvo to see if they can have a refund on the parts (they've actually been returned to Volvo) and they don't expect to hear from them until Friday.
It's now been fixed a week and we're without a car.
I don't understand how they think this is reasonable
Basically a message popped up on the dash saying "Auto Start/Stop Service Required". Seconds later the auto wipers turned on without any prompting and wouldn't turn off even when the engine was turned off and keys removed etc.
We removed the wiper fuse for 5 mins to see if it would reset them somehow - it didn't and the wipers wouldn't turn on at all.
Since this incident, the headlights were constantly on too, but would turn off when the engine was switched off.
Hope that clarifies some of the points.
ETA:
We removed the wiper fuse for 5 mins to see if it would reset them somehow - it didn't and the wipers wouldn't turn on at all.
Since this incident, the headlights were constantly on too, but would turn off when the engine was switched off.
Hope that clarifies some of the points.
ETA:
Vaud said:
So they are trying to charge you for parts that they can't even give you? (at the moment)
Yes - effectively that's what they are saying. They did say, as a 'goodwill gesture', that they would fit the new parts to the vehicle free of charge - I declined...Edited by Woody3 on Monday 20th March 21:18
herewego said:
Is this a Volvo dealer? Could you contact Volvo for their take on this behaviour. An alternative is to pay the bill stating this is under protest, write that on the bill, get the car back, then take the dealer to court for return of the overpayment.
No it sounds like OP took the car to an independent dealer.I would suggest you say to the garage you will pay for the part that fixed the car (the £40 part was it?) as well as the labour in full.
State you will not pay for the replacement of parts as you had not been contacted to authorise the repair, and if the garage starts to get funny, point out that they should have tested the parts to see if they had failed before they had replaced them.
It's not common for smaller garages to get funny, usually they care a bit more about their reputation.
Certainly when most of the cost is in labour I would be happy to get that.
Keep us updated!!
xjay1337 said:
herewego said:
Is this a Volvo dealer? Could you contact Volvo for their take on this behaviour. An alternative is to pay the bill stating this is under protest, write that on the bill, get the car back, then take the dealer to court for return of the overpayment.
No it sounds like OP took the car to an independent dealer.I would suggest you say to the garage you will pay for the part that fixed the car (the £40 part was it?) as well as the labour in full.
State you will not pay for the replacement of parts as you had not been contacted to authorise the repair, and if the garage starts to get funny, point out that they should have tested the parts to see if they had failed before they had replaced them.
It's not common for smaller garages to get funny, usually they care a bit more about their reputation.
Certainly when most of the cost is in labour I would be happy to get that.
Keep us updated!!
Well, Friday is here and the garage is still awaiting confirmation from Volvo RE the credit note.
Assuming this is to fob us off again - we aren't getting anywhere, my partner has prepared this following letter after researching online - does this sound reasonable (sorry it's long):
Assuming this is to fob us off again - we aren't getting anywhere, my partner has prepared this following letter after researching online - does this sound reasonable (sorry it's long):
Letter said:
Dear Sirs/Names/Whatever,
I brought my vehicle, a XXXXXXXX Reg: XXXXXXX, to your garage on Saturday 4th March 2017, after an initial telephone conversation. I explained the issue, that the wipers were no longer working after previously coming on, automatically at full speed, and not turning off even when the car was turned off and locked. I also explained that the Start/Stop service required warning had come on, and that the automatic lights were also not working correctly.
We agreed that I should bring the car in on Wednesday 8th March 2017 for you to further investigate, having suggested it was likely an electrical fault. I then dropped the car with you on the evening on Monday 6th March 2017 prior to works commencing on Wednesday 8th March 2017.
We were then in telephone contact over the following days, and you said you had tried a number of things (WHICH WERE) but had not solved the problem. On some occasions you spoke with my partner XXXXXX, further explaining the issues with the car.
On Tuesday 14th March 2017 you spoke to my partner XXXX and stated that the issue, with the battery monitoring sensor, had been fixed and gave him a verbal breakdown of the bill. This came to a total of £xxx broken down as; 10 hours labour at £40 per hour, battery monitoring sensor at a cost of £42.20+ VAT, start stop relay at a cost of £97 +VAT and wiper motor at £250+ VAT.
I was unhappy with this amount as the start/stop relay and wiper motor in my car were not faulty nor contributing to the problem, as you stated. You stated that these additional parts which were ordered would be returned to Volvo in the hope of receiving a refund, but that this refund was not certain and I would still be liable for the costs of these parts.
I visited the garage in person on Friday 17th March 2017 with the hope of paying bill for labour and cost of replacement, faulty, battery monitoring sensor and collecting the car. However you stated my options were: I paid the bill in full and would be refunded for the additional parts if and when Volvo issued you a credit note; or I could pay the bill in full, receive the replacement parts to sell on if I wished or that you would fit them to my car for free.
I couldn’t justify paying the whole amount with no guarantee of a refund from Volvo. I queried why I should have to pay for parts that were not needed to repair my car, and were not causing the issue, however I was unsuccessful in making this clear.
I have since received mechanical advice from another mechanic who stated that both the wiper motor and start/stop relay were parts that should have been removed from my vehicle, and bench tested to ascertain if they were faulty. As you have stated, following the repairs, that these were not faulty, why were these parts not bench tested, and why were they ordered if not required?
I left without paying the bill or collecting my car and agreed to wait to hear from Volvo about the refund.
On Tuesday 21st March 2017 I called to check whether Volvo had been in touch regarding the refund, which they had not. I also requested a printed or emailed copy of the bill but this was refused.
On Friday 24th March my partner and I called again to see whether Volvo had responded. We were told that they should have been in touch on Friday 24th March 2017 and that we should wait until Monday 27th March 2017 for confirmation from Volvo. My partner reiterated that we were unhappy paying for parts that were not needed and that we would be seeking further legal advice.
In summary my complaint is that it is unreasonable to charge me for parts that you explicitly stated were not causing the issue, particularly as these were parts which could have bench tested prior to placing an order for any replacement. I understand that the mechanical issue was difficult to diagnose and am happy to pay for the labour costs leading to the eventual repair of the car, and the replacement for the faulty part. I believe the reasonable bill for the works is therefore XXX. I should not be liable for the XXX cost of the additional, unnecessary parts.
I had been without my car for three weeks, causing considerable inconvenience as I have had to make other arrangements for travel to work, and postpone holidays.
I understand that we did not agree on a quote for the proposed works but nor did I explicitly authorise the purchase of any replacement parts. In this case, with no written quote agreed, the dispute is over the fact that the costs charged are unreasonable, for the reasons detailed above.
If you do not agree that you are liable and/or do not agree with the remedy sought, then please reply within 14 days with a detailed explanation of why not. I am sure it will not prove necessary but if I do not hear from you within 14 days then I reserve the right to start court proceedings without further reference to you.
If I do have to issue court proceedings, I will refer the court to this letter and I will also ask the court to order you to pay me interest, court fees and legal costs.
I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days.
Yours sincerely,
XXXX
I brought my vehicle, a XXXXXXXX Reg: XXXXXXX, to your garage on Saturday 4th March 2017, after an initial telephone conversation. I explained the issue, that the wipers were no longer working after previously coming on, automatically at full speed, and not turning off even when the car was turned off and locked. I also explained that the Start/Stop service required warning had come on, and that the automatic lights were also not working correctly.
We agreed that I should bring the car in on Wednesday 8th March 2017 for you to further investigate, having suggested it was likely an electrical fault. I then dropped the car with you on the evening on Monday 6th March 2017 prior to works commencing on Wednesday 8th March 2017.
We were then in telephone contact over the following days, and you said you had tried a number of things (WHICH WERE) but had not solved the problem. On some occasions you spoke with my partner XXXXXX, further explaining the issues with the car.
On Tuesday 14th March 2017 you spoke to my partner XXXX and stated that the issue, with the battery monitoring sensor, had been fixed and gave him a verbal breakdown of the bill. This came to a total of £xxx broken down as; 10 hours labour at £40 per hour, battery monitoring sensor at a cost of £42.20+ VAT, start stop relay at a cost of £97 +VAT and wiper motor at £250+ VAT.
I was unhappy with this amount as the start/stop relay and wiper motor in my car were not faulty nor contributing to the problem, as you stated. You stated that these additional parts which were ordered would be returned to Volvo in the hope of receiving a refund, but that this refund was not certain and I would still be liable for the costs of these parts.
I visited the garage in person on Friday 17th March 2017 with the hope of paying bill for labour and cost of replacement, faulty, battery monitoring sensor and collecting the car. However you stated my options were: I paid the bill in full and would be refunded for the additional parts if and when Volvo issued you a credit note; or I could pay the bill in full, receive the replacement parts to sell on if I wished or that you would fit them to my car for free.
I couldn’t justify paying the whole amount with no guarantee of a refund from Volvo. I queried why I should have to pay for parts that were not needed to repair my car, and were not causing the issue, however I was unsuccessful in making this clear.
I have since received mechanical advice from another mechanic who stated that both the wiper motor and start/stop relay were parts that should have been removed from my vehicle, and bench tested to ascertain if they were faulty. As you have stated, following the repairs, that these were not faulty, why were these parts not bench tested, and why were they ordered if not required?
I left without paying the bill or collecting my car and agreed to wait to hear from Volvo about the refund.
On Tuesday 21st March 2017 I called to check whether Volvo had been in touch regarding the refund, which they had not. I also requested a printed or emailed copy of the bill but this was refused.
On Friday 24th March my partner and I called again to see whether Volvo had responded. We were told that they should have been in touch on Friday 24th March 2017 and that we should wait until Monday 27th March 2017 for confirmation from Volvo. My partner reiterated that we were unhappy paying for parts that were not needed and that we would be seeking further legal advice.
In summary my complaint is that it is unreasonable to charge me for parts that you explicitly stated were not causing the issue, particularly as these were parts which could have bench tested prior to placing an order for any replacement. I understand that the mechanical issue was difficult to diagnose and am happy to pay for the labour costs leading to the eventual repair of the car, and the replacement for the faulty part. I believe the reasonable bill for the works is therefore XXX. I should not be liable for the XXX cost of the additional, unnecessary parts.
I had been without my car for three weeks, causing considerable inconvenience as I have had to make other arrangements for travel to work, and postpone holidays.
I understand that we did not agree on a quote for the proposed works but nor did I explicitly authorise the purchase of any replacement parts. In this case, with no written quote agreed, the dispute is over the fact that the costs charged are unreasonable, for the reasons detailed above.
- Deleted a paragraph*
If you do not agree that you are liable and/or do not agree with the remedy sought, then please reply within 14 days with a detailed explanation of why not. I am sure it will not prove necessary but if I do not hear from you within 14 days then I reserve the right to start court proceedings without further reference to you.
If I do have to issue court proceedings, I will refer the court to this letter and I will also ask the court to order you to pay me interest, court fees and legal costs.
I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days.
Yours sincerely,
XXXX
No way I'd give them 14 days to reply.
I'd want my car NOW.
I'd agree to pay for the repair - less the unnecessary parts.
Please Google but I thought that you could take your car back - without paying the bill - their recourse being to sue you but that they weren't allowed to hold your car regardless.
I'd want my car NOW.
I'd agree to pay for the repair - less the unnecessary parts.
Please Google but I thought that you could take your car back - without paying the bill - their recourse being to sue you but that they weren't allowed to hold your car regardless.
V8RX7 said:
Please Google but I thought that you could take your car back - without paying the bill - their recourse being to sue you but that they weren't allowed to hold your car regardless.
You can't take your car back without paying. If you were a garage owner, would you hand over the keys without payment?The only way he'll get the car now, is to pay under protest and then use small claims,
to re-claim the disputed amount.
Tim
Monday consisted of having a pretty long, yet informative discussion with the Citizens Advice Bureaux.
After prepping letters etc, we nipped down to the garage (expecting a bit of a debate), but instead we were greeted with an invoice of the correct amount and the 2 additional parts having been omitted, even though they were still waiting for Volvo to get back to them with regards to the credit note!
Obviously, we are very pleased (thanks for all your help!) - still not sure why they couldn't have done this 2 weeks ago though - maybe they were hoping my missus would just pay the bill and not question it.
Only problem is the clock resets to 12:00 each time we start it up - not sure why? - Anyway, for the time being we can live with that as there is no chance I'm taking it back there!
Thanks again for all your help & advice.
After prepping letters etc, we nipped down to the garage (expecting a bit of a debate), but instead we were greeted with an invoice of the correct amount and the 2 additional parts having been omitted, even though they were still waiting for Volvo to get back to them with regards to the credit note!
Obviously, we are very pleased (thanks for all your help!) - still not sure why they couldn't have done this 2 weeks ago though - maybe they were hoping my missus would just pay the bill and not question it.
Only problem is the clock resets to 12:00 each time we start it up - not sure why? - Anyway, for the time being we can live with that as there is no chance I'm taking it back there!
Thanks again for all your help & advice.
tty reviews everywhere. Places behaving like that deserve to go out of business.Woody3 said:
Only problem is the clock resets to 12:00 each time we start it up - not sure why? - Anyway, for the time being we can live with that as there is no chance I'm taking it back there!
Sounds like connection may be incorrect and is losing power when the starter motor is used?Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff