Speed limits

[gtsl]

Massive grey area's it seems, I don't have access to any documents relating to the van. Can you help?
I'm driving a van to work and have been under the impression that it is a car derived van from what I've found on it before.

Van in question is a 2015 Vauxhall combo 1.3 cdti. are these a car derived van or simply a van with the lower speed limit requirements?

I fell foul of this when i was younger, driving a connect and received points and a fine for traveling at 69mph on a dual carriageway, don't want to make the same mistake with this van.

So far my research has uncovered it is normal speeds if gross weigh is below 2t, I've found two different sources saying 1.7t and 2.01t

help me out please.

[Red Devil]

Happy reading.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=731...
http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/2005/7/28/confusio...
http://same-day-courier.eu/alec/2008/10/04/speed-l...

It really is about time the regulations were reviewed.
The continuing confusion over what constitutes a DPV/car-derived van is testament to that.
The actual definition is in the C&U Regs - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regul...

It doesn't help that manufacturers insist on quoting kerb weight in their specs.
The two measurement are NOT the same.
UW - https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained
Kerb weight - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_weight#cite_not...

If the manufacturers are using the EC Directive figure and that is shown on the V5C* it makes things even more problematical.
I don't know if the issue has ever been tested in court. Could be an interesting one for a canny solicitor/barrister.

 * Just to complicate things even more, the V5C refers to mass rather than weight.
    Which is technically correct as anyone who has done GCSE Physics will know.
    Weight is a force which is measured in Newtons, not Kgs.

[SS2.]

Dog's dinner..

DfT in 2008 said:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry (copied below) and request that we list car-derived vans: Because of the limited definition in law of a car-derived van, the only test of whether an individual vehicle falls into that category is via a court of law. Government departments cannot make that judgement and so do not issue lists of car-derived vans.

When asked to comment on a specific vehicle this department has applied a rule of thumb that;
– vans sharing the same chassis and body shell with a car but with some of the window apertures filled with metal, appear to satisfy the definition of car-derived van.
– vans comprising a car chassis throughout and the car body-shell from front bumper to “B” post (the door-post behind the front-doors ;with, say, a box body behind), appear to satisfy the definition of car-derived van.

Using those criteria, this Division recently advised an enquirer that the Vauxhall Combo did not appear to be a car-derived van since its wheel-base and track are different from those of the Corsa car. However, we added the caveat that our advice was subject to any decision made in a court of law. In the case of the Vauxhall Combo Kombi; this vehicle appears to be derived from the Combo van not the other way about. And therefore the Combo cannot be described as car-derived.

To answer your last point, about the police application of the law: As the law stands at present the only recourse for a motorist is to challenge the speeding prosecution in court.

I regret that I cannot advise you further.

Malcolm Burch
Senior Policy Advisor
LRI 2
Department for Transport

[KevinCamaroSS]

SS2 has it nailed I think. Van not CDV.

[JM]

Car derived van.






Van.






But, I used to have a Combo and just drove it to the car speed limits most of the time, with no issues.

[Retroman]

As above.
Easy way is, can you put windows and seats in your van and when you do, does it look virtually identical to the car? If not, it's likely a van and not car derived.

[gtsl]

Thanks for the info guy's.

A bit of a curve ball here, the Ford Tourneo is basically a Transit Van with windows and seats and is classed as a car with the higher speed limits. How do they get around that? simply changing the tail gate to a hatch and call it a car?

[SS2.]

gtsl said:

A bit of a curve ball here, the Ford Tourneo is basically a Transit Van with windows and seats and is classed as a car with the higher speed limits. How do they get around that?

By ensuring it is constructed or adapted to satisfy the definition of a passenger vehicle and / or dual-purpose vehicle.

gtsl said:

simply changing the tail gate to a hatch and call it a car?

No.

Edited by SS2. on Tuesday 21st March 08:07

[Red Devil]

KevinCamaroSS said:

SS2 has it nailed I think. Van not CDV.

I beg to differ. In 2008 the DfT conveniently ducked the issue.
The exact words he quoted are to be found in my third link: post #2.
7 years down the line the DfT modified its 'advice': see post #31.

In any case, a load of flannel from a government department means jack.
The only thing that matters is what a court decides.

As in other areas of motoring law, it hasn't kept pace with technological progress
It's a mess of pottage and nobody seems willing to take any responsibility for sorting it out.

[KevinCamaroSS]

Red Devil said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

SS2 has it nailed I think. Van not CDV.

I beg to differ. In 2008 the DfT conveniently ducked the issue.
The exact words he quoted are to be found in my third link: post #2.
7 years down the line the DfT modified its 'advice': see post #31.

In any case, a load of flannel from a government department means jack.
The only thing that matters is what a court decides.

As in other areas of motoring law, it hasn't kept pace with technological progress
It's a mess of pottage and nobody seems willing to take any responsibility for sorting it out.

The Combo is not derived from a car, it has a different platform although it shares the nose with a Corsa. The Corsa van is a CDV.

[SS2.]

And the amended 'advice' from the DfT is 2015 is wrong (or at best misleading), anyway.

It isn't what's on the logbook that matters, it what the vehicle actually is.

Take Nigel's much discussed VW Caddy as an example - 'car derived van' on the logbook, yet MLW is more than 2 tonnes. This means it fails on the statutory definition of 'car derived van'.

Ultimately, if the OP's Combo is found to be a derivative of a 'van', then lower speed limits will apply.