Non-molestation order

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Christmassss

650 posts

88 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Ok, based on the information you have given so far, it does look like your Ex is doing her best to punish you by restricting contact. This will not look very good in court for her.

It looks like it is heading to court, so:

Her claims of domestic abuse, whilst it might get her the non molestation granted initially. It will get overturned by a judge as their main focus is the child. As long as there is no risk to the child then there will be no reason to keep the non molestation order in place. The judge will say that it gives too much power to your ex.

Cafcass will get involved and will hear both sides of the story and then put a report together for the judge.

If you haven't been too mediation, i would imagine that the judge will suggest/advise this is the best course of action.

Make sure you have plenty of evidence, texts, emails, a general idea of how specific conversations went. This will help if it continues further down the court route, although initially it is a case of 'he said, she said' rather than a hearing of evidence.

  • this information is based on my very recent experience of this exact process, but take it all with a pinch of salt!
A further point about the domestic abuse, my ex had various police incident numbers, witnesses etc but the judge didn't really care, as it was all about the safety of the kids, rather than the history with the ex partner.



MrJingles705

409 posts

142 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Christmassss said:
Cafcass will get involved and will hear both sides of the story and then put a report together for the judge.
Your experience of cafcass appears to be different than my friends; they were next to useless. He still is working through a complaint with them based on their report, given they did not speak to even the older (teenage) child.

MrJingles705

409 posts

142 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
SickFish said:
My access has been eroded since I have started saying no and stopped giving her money hand over fist. There is/ was an informal agreement that she emailed me when we split up and as of this year has started to reduce my time with her, it is since she has been going to these "domestic abuse groups" and I suspect they have been getting into her ear telling her what to do...

For the record, I have never struck/ harmed my ex nor threatened her, yes I have lost my temper and raised my voice, after being goaded by her which won't work in my favour I fear...
As has already been said - unilaterally restricting access will not reflect well on her part, and you can (and should) challenge this.

(and for the record - I wasn't trying to imply that you had done anything along those lines; sorry if it came across that way.)

SickFish

Original Poster:

3,503 posts

188 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Christmassss said:
Ok, based on the information you have given so far, it does look like your Ex is doing her best to punish you by restricting contact. This will not look very good in court for her.

It looks like it is heading to court, so:

Her claims of domestic abuse, whilst it might get her the non molestation granted initially. It will get overturned by a judge as their main focus is the child. As long as there is no risk to the child then there will be no reason to keep the non molestation order in place. The judge will say that it gives too much power to your ex.

Cafcass will get involved and will hear both sides of the story and then put a report together for the judge.

If you haven't been too mediation, i would imagine that the judge will suggest/advise this is the best course of action.

Make sure you have plenty of evidence, texts, emails, a general idea of how specific conversations went. This will help if it continues further down the court route, although initially it is a case of 'he said, she said' rather than a hearing of evidence.

  • this information is based on my very recent experience of this exact process, but take it all with a pinch of salt!
A further point about the domestic abuse, my ex had various police incident numbers, witnesses etc but the judge didn't really care, as it was all about the safety of the kids, rather than the history with the ex partner.
Lots of help there - thank you.

I had my daughter weekend before last and have lots of pictures of her smiling and playing etc. (Which I hope are good type of evidence?) strangely, the ex didn't think she was in danger that Saturday when I was picking my girl up, nor any of the other weekends.... until she found out I was with someone else.

As the order has been given "without notice" I believe there is a hearing date on 20th April... this again is from the conversations with the chap that is trying to hand me notice

Christmassss

650 posts

88 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
MrJingles705 said:
Your experience of cafcass appears to be different than my friends; they were next to useless. He still is working through a complaint with them based on their report, given they did not speak to even the older (teenage) child.
Luckily the children involved in my case are 1 and 2 so no need for Cafcass to get involved with talking to them. However i can see with the more complicated cases that they might fall down.

Pretty sure the OP said his child was 2 so hopefully will be a straight forward convo

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
The one thing that i always think with these situations is that the mums must be utterly deluded.

I have always wondered if this happened in real life and then met a chap a few months back who told me their story.

They had split up from the wife 10 years or so beforehand and the wife had, after a few months, taken the daughter 200+ miles away and refused all contact with their child, ignoring the court, and generally with his lack of resources, leaving him with no hope of being actively involved with his child. He therefore started a diary/collection. Pictures, notes, letters, presents and cards for birthdays and Christmases were all bought and collated. Even his new partner and their child (when a little older) would sign these. As they knew they would never get anywhere near the daughter if sent they were all kept nice and safe.

As luck would have it the chap also had friends in the area the ex moved to and they were able to occasionally report back to him how the daughter was getting on, including where she worked.

On her 18th Birthday he sent the whole package to her works address. He spoke to his daughter for the first time in nearly 10 years the day after. She had always hoped that one day he would try to find her and had never been fully 'on message' with the mothers poison and side of the story.

Daughter has now cut off all contact with mother and has moved this way to be closer to her dad and to try to make up for some lost time.

Boosted LS1

21,165 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
The order sounds like an interim order as it was obtained in your absence. There will probably be a return date in a fortnight when you could attend at court and explain your viewpoint.

At that stage you could either fight it, accept it or wisely go for the middle ground and give an undertaking that you won't behave badly.

I'd either contest the allegations (if they're false or exagerated) or offer the undertaking as then you'll be entitled to easier access to your child. If a more permanant order is granted against you, you may end up having to collect your child from a contact centre, church or relatives address. Which can be a pain.

A lot of this also depends on what your ex has been accusing you off. Whatever you do, don't lose your cool with the process server, your ex or at court.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Wednesday 22 March 13:56

SickFish

Original Poster:

3,503 posts

188 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
It's ridiculous... I have told the ex I am not interested in talking with her on a personal level, I have said this countless times, ideally it would have been nice to at least be on talking terms about my daughter but even that has fallen through.

I have emails from the ex telling me to not contact her at all... then 7 days later emailing me telling me I was a "st dad" for not asking about my daughter... I can't win!!!

I have done some reading up on this and instead of a court order this can be changed to an "undertaking" basically a promise made that is enforceable... I.e "I promise not to contact XXXXXX unless it is to do with my daughter"

The way I see it is, we are both her parents, I'm on the birth certificate and I have as much rights as her... unfortunately I fear that the powers that be won't see it that way :sad:

SickFish

Original Poster:

3,503 posts

188 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Boosted LS1 said:
The order sounds like an interim order as it was obtained in your absence. There will probably be a return date in a fortnight when you could attend at court and explain your viewpoint.

At that stage you could either fight it, accept it or wisely go for the middle ground and give an undertaking that you won't behave badly.

I'd either contest the allegations (if they're false or exagerated) or offer the undertaking as then you'll be entitled to easier access to your child. If a more permanant order is granted against you, you may end up having to collect your child from a contact centre, church or relatives address. Which can be a pain.

A lot of this also depends on what your ex has been accusing you off. Whatever you do, don't lose your cool with the process server, your ex or at court.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Wednesday 22 March 13:56
I think an undertaking is the best outcome.... or even accept the order - as long as it does not impact access to my daughter.

Boosted LS1

21,165 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
You'll be able to make a more informed decision once you've seen what her allegations are. They may be ridiculous or seem severe. If they have substance then maybe go for the undertaking.

Non Molestation orders usually have a power of arrest attached to them or used to back in the day. The last thing you want is one of those over your head because your ex could phone the police any time she liked and have you arrested if there was even a minor breach :-(

Boosted LS1

21,165 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
As for the 'representitive stuff. It just means that he used to belong to an umbrella organisation and has probably since branched out on his own. Anybody can serve court process, the documents are usually given to the agent's by the solicitors but can also be collected directly from the court. He's unlikely to be a bailiff or court official.

SickFish

Original Poster:

3,503 posts

188 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Boosted LS1 said:
You'll be able to make a more informed decision once you've seen what her allegations are. They may be ridiculous or seem severe. If they have substance then maybe go for the undertaking.

Non Molestation orders usually have a power of arrest attached to them or used to back in the day. The last thing you want is one of those over your head because your ex could phone the police any time she liked and have you arrested if there was even a minor breach :-(
Boosted LS1 said:
As for the 'representitive stuff. It just means that he used to belong to an umbrella organisation and has probably since branched out on his own. Anybody can serve court process, the documents are usually given to the agent's by the solicitors but can also be collected directly from the court. He's unlikely to be a bailiff or court official.
I think (hope...) I will be pushing for the undertaking, as the 100m restriction makes life MASSIVELY difficult with picking up my daughter, given that the ex does not drive nor has family in the area... plus the non-molestation order does have a 5 year sentence attached if breached, so I could be picked up if the ex was feeling exceptionally spiteful.

Thank you for your help, lots of good info there smile

Alex_225

6,233 posts

200 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Rude-boy said:
The one thing that i always think with these situations is that the mums must be utterly deluded.

I have always wondered if this happened in real life and then met a chap a few months back who told me their story.

They had split up from the wife 10 years or so beforehand and the wife had, after a few months, taken the daughter 200+ miles away and refused all contact with their child, ignoring the court, and generally with his lack of resources, leaving him with no hope of being actively involved with his child. He therefore started a diary/collection. Pictures, notes, letters, presents and cards for birthdays and Christmases were all bought and collated. Even his new partner and their child (when a little older) would sign these. As they knew they would never get anywhere near the daughter if sent they were all kept nice and safe.

As luck would have it the chap also had friends in the area the ex moved to and they were able to occasionally report back to him how the daughter was getting on, including where she worked.

On her 18th Birthday he sent the whole package to her works address. He spoke to his daughter for the first time in nearly 10 years the day after. She had always hoped that one day he would try to find her and had never been fully 'on message' with the mothers poison and side of the story.

Daughter has now cut off all contact with mother and has moved this way to be closer to her dad and to try to make up for some lost time.
Wow!! That is a really sad story for the father and daughter in that story. Nice to hear a happy outcome in the end though and I'm not surprised the daughter turned away from her mother though. So selfish of the daughter to lose out on a father because of the mothers bitterness.

My mum's parents actually separated back in the 60s. No one can defend the fact that my granddad basically did the dirty and he never used to defend the fact. My nan never ever accepted it though and stopped him seeing my mum and her sister for 6 months. There is literally no reasoning behind that other than my nan being bitter and punishing him. 50 years down the line and my nan is still bitter (been married since!) and my mum/her sister were very close to their dad.

Pieman68

4,264 posts

233 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
MrJingles705 said:
Christmassss said:
Cafcass will get involved and will hear both sides of the story and then put a report together for the judge.
Your experience of cafcass appears to be different than my friends; they were next to useless. He still is working through a complaint with them based on their report, given they did not speak to even the older (teenage) child.
Not me personally, but a very good friend

The representatives from Cafcass were so bad in his case that they were torn a new one by the judge eventually

Still spent 18 months going through a contact centre and £35k to get access to his daughter - then found it very difficult to actually get her to go with him on his access days as "Mummy had said that Daddy wouldn't bring her home"

Drugs tests, psych evaluations etc. - All based upon the mother's say with no evidence

This from a woman who forced him to keep all his music collection in the shed as it was "devil music" - she found God and lost the plot completely before he left her

SickFish

Original Poster:

3,503 posts

188 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Pieman68 said:
MrJingles705 said:
Christmassss said:
Cafcass will get involved and will hear both sides of the story and then put a report together for the judge.
Your experience of cafcass appears to be different than my friends; they were next to useless. He still is working through a complaint with them based on their report, given they did not speak to even the older (teenage) child.
Not me personally, but a very good friend

The representatives from Cafcass were so bad in his case that they were torn a new one by the judge eventually

Still spent 18 months going through a contact centre and £35k to get access to his daughter - then found it very difficult to actually get her to go with him on his access days as "Mummy had said that Daddy wouldn't bring her home"

Drugs tests, psych evaluations etc. - All based upon the mother's say with no evidence

This from a woman who forced him to keep all his music collection in the shed as it was "devil music" - she found God and lost the plot completely before he left her
Considering I have been called an intravenous drug abusing bi-polar schizophrenic maniac... I can imagine I will need an evaluation or two to prove my sanity...

SickFish

Original Poster:

3,503 posts

188 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Jut waiting on a response from her solicitors with regards to instructions about where/ when to collect my little girl... not holding my hopes up... this is heart breaking frown

I was so excited for seeing her on Saturday....

Christmassss

650 posts

88 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
SickFish said:
Jut waiting on a response from her solicitors with regards to instructions about where/ when to collect my little girl... not holding my hopes up... this is heart breaking frown

I was so excited for seeing her on Saturday....
You've got to remain positive, I know it is hard.

You can use this whole situation to get more time back with your daughter. When you go to court you can ask for full weekends every other weekend and an evening or two a week. Then it'll be court mandated and your ex cant use your Daughter as a weapon against you again.

I would imagine it be will suggested a 3rd party does collection/drop off or meeting in a public place

SickFish

Original Poster:

3,503 posts

188 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Christmassss said:
SickFish said:
Jut waiting on a response from her solicitors with regards to instructions about where/ when to collect my little girl... not holding my hopes up... this is heart breaking frown

I was so excited for seeing her on Saturday....
You've got to remain positive, I know it is hard.

You can use this whole situation to get more time back with your daughter. When you go to court you can ask for full weekends every other weekend and an evening or two a week. Then it'll be court mandated and your ex cant use your Daughter as a weapon against you again.

I would imagine it be will suggested a 3rd party does collection/drop off or meeting in a public place
When I left in July it was always said it would stay out of court and we'd be amicable... wishful thinking I fear... rocky roads ahead!

Christmassss

650 posts

88 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
SickFish said:
When I left in July it was always said it would stay out of court and we'd be amicable... wishful thinking I fear... rocky roads ahead!
Meeting new partners can send people over the edge!

When my partners ex found out about me, he tried ringing her 62 times in one day! (amongst other things) He is a typical bully though, mouths off to her when i'm not around - or at least thinks i'm not - and then looks at the floor and doesn't say a word when he sees me.


Boosted LS1

21,165 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
SickFish said:
Jut waiting on a response from her solicitors with regards to instructions about where/ when to collect my little girl... not holding my hopes up... this is heart breaking frown

I was so excited for seeing her on Saturday....
Unfortunately they may not help you because they issued the injunction for your ex. She's playing hardball at the moment and may have legal aid. If you could suggest a place where your daughter could be collected by you and away from your ex they may entertain that idea as it's quite reasonable. Expect the process server to turn up at the same time but that's no big deal. It'll be your opportunity to have a say at the next hearing.