Lawyer types - A bit of advice for a fellow driver
Discussion
TripleS said:
We had better all keep off the motorways or dual carriageways now eh? All those cars going in the same direction at roughly the same speed, overtaking too, are all now considered to be racing?
As far as I am concerned, if I am pressing on, and coincidentally, another vehicle happens to be pressing on too, it is just that, coincidental, not racing. If I just follow on, that is not racing, if I overtake, and then leave it way behind, that is not racing either. It is just out driving and passing another car. Its normal and has been going on for decades.
Quite right Warren. I occasionally encounter another driver in similar press on mode and we might travel together quite quickly for a few miles. It happened very recently on the SC A59 between the Preston area and Harrogate. I was in front for a while, then I eased off a little while I pressed a couple of buttons on the Navman, so the other guy passed me. Having done that I picked up the pace again and we travelled another ten miles or so, with him leading, before going our separate ways. We each made some good overtakes (of other cars) and it was most enjoyable and perfectly safe. It was most certainly not a race.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
As I mentioned to a previous poster, it doesn't really matter what you think - it's how it looks to others. Surely almost everyone who has been 'racing' denies it? If a witness says something like 'the cars were going like bats out of hell chasing each other' (and you can just imagine some old codger saying that) then you're in trouble. If several witnesses come forward you're in a lot of trouble.
If I come across someone driving at excessive speed (or performing obviously dodgy manoeuvres) then I get out of their way and let them go.
deva link said:
As I mentioned to a previous poster, it doesn't really matter what you think - it's how it looks to others. Surely almost everyone who has been 'racing' denies it? If a witness says something like 'the cars were going like bats out of hell chasing each other' (and you can just imagine some old codger saying that) then you're in trouble. If several witnesses come forward you're in a lot of trouble.
If I come across someone driving at excessive speed (or performing obviously dodgy manoeuvres) then I get out of their way and let them go.
Its called third party perception!
Nail right on head deva link.
Having attracted third party perception for just a moment and those third parties decide to make a point that ends up corroborating what they saw regardless of the intention of those actually involved. Those participating drivers are on a sticky wicket and will most definately require the services of a dodgy lawyer who is likely to collaborate with the prosecution to earn his/her wedge or alternatively seek the advice and instruction from a Scottish Mechanic
TripleS said:
There is no way that the incident I described could sensibly be portrayed by anyone as a race, so make of that what you will, and unless you were there at the time you can not possibly evaluate the situation.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I think the key word above is 'sensibly' - whenever where witnesses (and Magistrates etc) sensible?
I'm sure what you where doing was fine, and up until 3 yrs ago I used to use that road every week (I frequently saw unmarked police cars by the way, and its open stretches would be ideal for laser speed checks these days), but you can't control what other people will think, or say.
deva link and Quinny - thank you for your comments, and I'm very sorry to hear about your problem Quinny. I will have to find that topic and read the details.
Yes it is more important to be careful about enjoying spirited driving these days, though I'm in real trouble with the notion that we can not enjoy any of that.
What bothers me is the fact that some people tend to describe things in quite dramatic terms, seemingly without much attempt to deploy reasonable balance and fairness, but this is a fact of life and one we must cope with as best we can.
Sometimes, after an accident, the police will ask for witnesses to provide information as to the way in which a car was being driven prior to the accident, and I fear this could give an unfair impression of a driver's behaviour. Typical scenario:
Car leaves the road at a bend, and ends up in the greenery. Witness says - 'He was going like a bat out of hell when he passed me half a mile back'.
The fact that somebody was driving fairly swiftly a short time prior to the accident is probably quite irrelevant. The real problem was that the driver misjudged a bend and attempted to get round 10 or 15 mph too fast, hence the visit to the greenery. OK, his mistake, but our witness friend is probably quite capable of making the same sort of mistake, or doing something even worse.
I just worry about people having a tought time in court thanks to contributions from people who are not actually providing fair and balanced evidence.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Yes it is more important to be careful about enjoying spirited driving these days, though I'm in real trouble with the notion that we can not enjoy any of that.
What bothers me is the fact that some people tend to describe things in quite dramatic terms, seemingly without much attempt to deploy reasonable balance and fairness, but this is a fact of life and one we must cope with as best we can.
Sometimes, after an accident, the police will ask for witnesses to provide information as to the way in which a car was being driven prior to the accident, and I fear this could give an unfair impression of a driver's behaviour. Typical scenario:
Car leaves the road at a bend, and ends up in the greenery. Witness says - 'He was going like a bat out of hell when he passed me half a mile back'.
The fact that somebody was driving fairly swiftly a short time prior to the accident is probably quite irrelevant. The real problem was that the driver misjudged a bend and attempted to get round 10 or 15 mph too fast, hence the visit to the greenery. OK, his mistake, but our witness friend is probably quite capable of making the same sort of mistake, or doing something even worse.
I just worry about people having a tought time in court thanks to contributions from people who are not actually providing fair and balanced evidence.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
I just worry about people having a tought time in court thanks to contributions from people who are not actually providing fair and balanced evidence.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I think you will find that the court decides what is fair and balanced evidence.
A witness will only be allowed to give evidence of what they saw or heard at that time. They will not be allowed to give opinion unless they happen to be an expert witness accepted by the court!
In your scenario above, antecedent driving will be accpeted by the court as a course of conduct leading to the mistake! Just bear that in mind, especially if the antecedent driving is witnessed by someone who is a NIMBY or worse.
gone said:
In your scenario above, antecedent driving will be accpeted by the court as a course of conduct leading to the mistake! Just bear that in mind, especially if the antecedent driving is witnessed by someone who is a NIMBY or worse.
Scary. I often drive the 'teg "enthusiastically" when the roads are clear, and overtaking in the 'teg involves redlining it, due to the peaky delivery. I don't mind this, I like the character of the car, but it does draw a lot of attention, much of it negative (std exhaust is still pretty loud).
Yet when things get riskier, whether it's sight-lines going, built-up area approaching, or just junctions, I back off.
So my driving, in the space of a mile (i.e. 1 minute, let alone 5-10), can turn from full-on overtaking to cautious pass-the-hazard-carefully. From the sounds of things, if I was involved in an RTA I could end up in trouble because of how I was driving well before the incident, not AT the incident.
And I'm very sure I'm not alone in driving in this way. Ridiculous is a word that springs to mind. Out-of-order is a phrase that springs to mind. It implies that we are not intelligent enough to moderate our driving to the conditions around, and that just because we choose to drive fast when conditions allow, we must be careless arses who endanger small furry animals!!!
Okay this is kinda personal for me but an analogy for the CPS in this case.
A friend recently died on a night out, another friend pushed him into a bush, a 3" spike from the bush went into his eye and he died from blood pressure building up in the brain as a result 3 days later.
The CPS decided not to prosecute (Thankfully) as they decided it was just a prank gone wrong/ kids playing.
However 2 people playing in cars where they were each fully sober and responsible for their own actions/ safety which results in someone who didn't even touch the other person being labeled by the cps as responsible for the death of the other person.
It stinks and that's all there is to it.
I know my friend didn't push james with the intent to kill him and the CPS made the right choice.
Likewise whether or not the 2 drivers were racing the nissan driver was in no way responsible for the condition of the fiesta or the abilities of the driver.
Both incidents happened in Stoke on Trent.
As for the sentinel, they have been proven to use fezzy park as a cheap issue to sell papers before when local enthusiasts have tried to get a fair argument across.
PS hi, I'm not always ranting like this, sometimes I'm just swearing.
A friend recently died on a night out, another friend pushed him into a bush, a 3" spike from the bush went into his eye and he died from blood pressure building up in the brain as a result 3 days later.
The CPS decided not to prosecute (Thankfully) as they decided it was just a prank gone wrong/ kids playing.
However 2 people playing in cars where they were each fully sober and responsible for their own actions/ safety which results in someone who didn't even touch the other person being labeled by the cps as responsible for the death of the other person.
It stinks and that's all there is to it.
I know my friend didn't push james with the intent to kill him and the CPS made the right choice.
Likewise whether or not the 2 drivers were racing the nissan driver was in no way responsible for the condition of the fiesta or the abilities of the driver.
Both incidents happened in Stoke on Trent.
As for the sentinel, they have been proven to use fezzy park as a cheap issue to sell papers before when local enthusiasts have tried to get a fair argument across.
PS hi, I'm not always ranting like this, sometimes I'm just swearing.
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