113MPH ON THE A3
Discussion
In a moment of stupidity I got caught by an unmarked dark green Jaguar doing 113mp on the A3 Northbound (70 limit), on Saturday night at 21:30. I would like some advice please. Should I take a lawyer to court or is this just likely to antagonise the magistrates, but I would obviously like to present my case as well as possible. What is the likely penalty for such an offence, I have no points in 18 years of driving and 6 years of owning a performance car. I would like to say that the police officer was very polite. No great lecture even stated she appreciated that the car was safely capable of the speed but that is not the point the limit is the limit, and yes I agree! Thanks in advance for your help.
You seem to accept the fact that despite what the conditions may have been and that no other road users were put at risk, that you were speeding. The imposed limit, like or not was 70. You exceeded by 43 mph.
You were stopped and reported by Police so cannot circumvent the paper trail that Piggy Bank ( I hate JC)
generates so any argument (which to me your don't seem to have)will be to discredit the evidence GiB will provide to CPS and Court. At that speed a summons will be on its way to you.
If you fear, as is likely, a disqualification, the only avenues to go down to try and escape this is by trying to convince Magistrates that there was no danger by your speed (bear in mind they have heard this time after time) or that a disqualification will cause undue hardship (loss of job, house, wife, car etc.)with evidence to back this up.
As a Jag owner you may want to engage an advocate, thereby contributing to the hard up legal profession (TIC) and let him take the hassle of trying to get it sorted to mutual satisfaction.
DVD
You were stopped and reported by Police so cannot circumvent the paper trail that Piggy Bank ( I hate JC)
generates so any argument (which to me your don't seem to have)will be to discredit the evidence GiB will provide to CPS and Court. At that speed a summons will be on its way to you.
If you fear, as is likely, a disqualification, the only avenues to go down to try and escape this is by trying to convince Magistrates that there was no danger by your speed (bear in mind they have heard this time after time) or that a disqualification will cause undue hardship (loss of job, house, wife, car etc.)with evidence to back this up.
As a Jag owner you may want to engage an advocate, thereby contributing to the hard up legal profession (TIC) and let him take the hassle of trying to get it sorted to mutual satisfaction.
DVD
DVD, I own a Porsche not a Jag, it was an unmarked Jag that stopped me. I am accepting I was speeding no argument there the facts are what they are. The road was dry and very little traffic. I was simply looking for advice as to likely penalty and if it is advisable to take a lawyer. I certainly expect to get a ban, I don't want to annoy the magistrates by turning up with a lawyer if that annoys them in such offences but of course I am entitled to do so. In peoples experience does taking a lawyer help (reduce ban), or does it do very little or even increase the ban?
Many years ago I was pinged at 110 on the A3. Similar situation to yourself (clear road, clean license etc blah blah). Put my hand up to it straight away (well, I was going that fast) and took a solicitor to court with me just so he could do the talking and I just had to sit in the room looking apologetic and contrite.
Two week ban (which coincided nicely with the Christmas holidays, so I was never a nominated driver!
) and a few hundred quid fine. I learnt a lesson from the experience (ie always check bridges and flyovers
) and haven't been caught being that naughty again.
There are some on here that would point you in the direction of various websites in an attempt to find a loophole to wriggle out of it, but in your (our) case it isn't (wasn't) a marginal call so take it on the chin admit it to the courts, but take legal advice and representation and book a holiday abroad to correspond with your inevitable small ban.
BTW, the conviction affected my insurance premium by about 5%
Two week ban (which coincided nicely with the Christmas holidays, so I was never a nominated driver!
) and a few hundred quid fine. I learnt a lesson from the experience (ie always check bridges and flyovers) and haven't been caught being that naughty again. There are some on here that would point you in the direction of various websites in an attempt to find a loophole to wriggle out of it, but in your (our) case it isn't (wasn't) a marginal call so take it on the chin admit it to the courts, but take legal advice and representation and book a holiday abroad to correspond with your inevitable small ban.
BTW, the conviction affected my insurance premium by about 5%
You could always use the duty solicitor who will be at the Court on the day you go. One main advantage is that they are likely to know what, if anything, will work with the particular Magistrates that are sitting that day. The down side is that they won't be able to spend lots of time with you as they'll probably be dealing with loads of other cases as well. Once you've spoken with them, you can decide whether you want to represent yourself or whether you want the duty solicitor to represent you.
I was convicted of exceeding the speed limit on a dual carriage way - zapped at 103mph. It was dark and the road was free of traffic.
I was expecting a ban and so found a solicitor who only practiced motoring law. He explained to the bench my previous clean driving record, that I ran my own business which necessitated driving and the road conditions at the time of the offence. The fact I was driving a M3 wasn't mentioned, although it may have been on the paperwork the Magistrates' saw.
I wasn't banned, got 6 points, a £200 fine and a bill from the solicitor for £200 (I think). But this was 10 years ago.
I think the mitigating factors (own business etc) were weak and can only guess that I escaped a ban due to the advocacy skills of the solicitor. I don't think I'd have dodged a ban defending myself.
I think if you can live with a ban defend yourself and save the money. If not find a motoring solicitor.
I was expecting a ban and so found a solicitor who only practiced motoring law. He explained to the bench my previous clean driving record, that I ran my own business which necessitated driving and the road conditions at the time of the offence. The fact I was driving a M3 wasn't mentioned, although it may have been on the paperwork the Magistrates' saw.
I wasn't banned, got 6 points, a £200 fine and a bill from the solicitor for £200 (I think). But this was 10 years ago.
I think the mitigating factors (own business etc) were weak and can only guess that I escaped a ban due to the advocacy skills of the solicitor. I don't think I'd have dodged a ban defending myself.
I think if you can live with a ban defend yourself and save the money. If not find a motoring solicitor.
Rather a two week ban than six points. Even a two week ban wipes all points from your licence and starts you again at zero.
I got two weeks and £300. I don't know whether I'd have done better or worse without a lawyer but I certainly could have presented the case much better than he (sadly). One plus point: his boss advised me that I was only banned from UK roads. I was due to go and visit friends in southern France...
I got two weeks and £300. I don't know whether I'd have done better or worse without a lawyer but I certainly could have presented the case much better than he (sadly). One plus point: his boss advised me that I was only banned from UK roads. I was due to go and visit friends in southern France...
Thanks for all of your comments. I will not try to find a loophole or any such to avoid this. I am guilty and as such I will face up to whatever comes my way. I do however, believe in the right to a fair trial for any offence/crime and as such would look to use a lawyer if it was in my best interest. So thanks to all of you for the feedback. Does anyone know of a good lawyer for motoring offences?
charltm said:
....One plus point: his boss advised me that I was only banned from UK roads. I was due to go and visit friends in southern France...
Hi Charltm....sorry to be pedantic, but there are some problems with this.....if you're relying on your own insurance to drive your car abroad (assuming someone else could drive it to the ferry port for you), then don't; English insurers will not cover you for anything if your UK license is suspended. And you'll also find small print on hire car company docs abroad, stating the need for a valid drivers license....which yours wouldn't have been if you had been banned. So no insurance that way either. If you didn't tell them that your license had been suspended in order to get a car out of them, that's deception/fraud etc! The only way round it then, is to take your driving test in France and then buy a french insurance policy! J.
I had 6 points (2 x SP30) and got caught doing 104mph M1 northbound Milton keynes Friday afternoon.
Quite how that speed was possible at that time I don't know.
Anyway. Took my employment contract and my boss to court.
Me : "If I lose my license I will probably lose my job"
Boss : "He is a key employee and if he loses his license we are kinda screwed."
6 points. £300 fine. Total of 12 points on license with no ban.
Magistrates : "You cannot use this an excuse again".
The point is that the magistrates are there to punish the offendor not his employer/wife/dependant
I was lucky.
At your speed you may not be so lucky.
Grovel, scrape, tug your forelock, say sorry.
For gods sake do not try and excuse your crime as they will only respond with "you chose to break the law".
I did all this after taking advise from traffic police friends and magistrate friends.
Best of luck.
Tim.
PS. Having 12 points on your license is a good lesson in driving carefully for 3 years but better than a 2 week ban as that will haunt you for ever. I now have a clean license with no bans.
PPS. I didn't use a lawyer. The court was a small provincial court and I was advised by the traffic police friend that country bumpkin magistrates are NOT impressed by slick city lawyers. If you are in court in a city then you may wish to use a lawyer but if you use my argument then a lawyer is redundat because you are not arguing a point of law you are just requesting leniency.
>> Edited by timpailthorpe on Monday 11th July 23:19
Quite how that speed was possible at that time I don't know.
Anyway. Took my employment contract and my boss to court.
Me : "If I lose my license I will probably lose my job"
Boss : "He is a key employee and if he loses his license we are kinda screwed."
6 points. £300 fine. Total of 12 points on license with no ban.
Magistrates : "You cannot use this an excuse again".
The point is that the magistrates are there to punish the offendor not his employer/wife/dependant
I was lucky.
At your speed you may not be so lucky.
Grovel, scrape, tug your forelock, say sorry.
For gods sake do not try and excuse your crime as they will only respond with "you chose to break the law".
I did all this after taking advise from traffic police friends and magistrate friends.
Best of luck.
Tim.
PS. Having 12 points on your license is a good lesson in driving carefully for 3 years but better than a 2 week ban as that will haunt you for ever. I now have a clean license with no bans.
PPS. I didn't use a lawyer. The court was a small provincial court and I was advised by the traffic police friend that country bumpkin magistrates are NOT impressed by slick city lawyers. If you are in court in a city then you may wish to use a lawyer but if you use my argument then a lawyer is redundat because you are not arguing a point of law you are just requesting leniency.
>> Edited by timpailthorpe on Monday 11th July 23:19
charltm said:
jezzaaa, the other thing you can do in that instance is ring up the insurance company on a recorded line and ask the question and hope you get someone who just says "that's fine". But it doesn't matter anyway because it happened three years ago!
Hi ya - I was in a very pedantic mood yesterday. I'm normal today though.....whatever that means! Glad you enjoyed your ban!!
Cheers,
J.
barrisimo said:
In a moment of stupidity I got caught by an unmarked dark green Jaguar doing 113mp on the A3 Northbound (70 limit), on Saturday night at 21:30. I would like some advice please. Should I take a lawyer to court or is this just likely to antagonise the magistrates, but I would obviously like to present my case as well as possible. What is the likely penalty for such an offence, I have no points in 18 years of driving and 6 years of owning a performance car. I would like to say that the police officer was very polite. No great lecture even stated she appreciated that the car was safely capable of the speed but that is not the point the limit is the limit, and yes I agree! Thanks in advance for your help.
'In a moment of stupidity...' should read: 'Unfortunately...'
That could happen to lots of us. Anyhow I wish you luck.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Might be of some help but I got done in February on exactly the same stretch 103mph at 1/4 past midnight on a thursday night. Case was this morning with Guildford mags which I assume will be the same. I went guilty and presented very strong mitigation, looked very humble and said lots of sorrys best suit etc. I didn't have representation as I was quoted £645+Vat for a Barrister through Woodrow Pryce (specialist motoring solicitors in that area)and I don't really think they could have done a better job than I did myself. Outcome was 6 points £333 fine and £43 costs. All in all I think I came off quite lightly by escaping a ban and count myself lucky.
I was banned for 56 days in 1999, was driving a hired car, didn't own one myself so didn't care if I was banned or not, was offered that or 6 points. Took the ban.
6 years later, the ban is still valid whereas points would not be. Every insurance form asks "any convictions in the last 5 years?" but also "have you EVER been banned?".
Talking to brokers, they reckon 50% of insurers won't even look at you if you've been banned. You are tarred with the same brush as drink or dangerous drivers.
PS, this was in Barnstaple (Devon) magistrates court, bumpkin as it gets. If I'd had a solicitor I would have got off WAY lighter! If you can afford one, get one.
6 years later, the ban is still valid whereas points would not be. Every insurance form asks "any convictions in the last 5 years?" but also "have you EVER been banned?".
Talking to brokers, they reckon 50% of insurers won't even look at you if you've been banned. You are tarred with the same brush as drink or dangerous drivers.
PS, this was in Barnstaple (Devon) magistrates court, bumpkin as it gets. If I'd had a solicitor I would have got off WAY lighter! If you can afford one, get one.
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