Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023
Discussion
Here in Suffolk they imposed a blanket 30mph speed limit on all villages in the early 90's, no matter what. Some it was justified, but one village I drive through daily to work used to be a 50 limit and there is no way a 30 limit is justified.
The village I'm from in Wales has had a 20 limit on it in the residential streets for quite a while now, and to be fair, you'd struggle to go above 20 (steep hills, lots of bends, narrow streets with parked cars on) and that is the speed most people drive at anyway.
Blanket limits are just lazy.
The village I'm from in Wales has had a 20 limit on it in the residential streets for quite a while now, and to be fair, you'd struggle to go above 20 (steep hills, lots of bends, narrow streets with parked cars on) and that is the speed most people drive at anyway.
Blanket limits are just lazy.
eccles said:
Here in Suffolk they imposed a blanket 30mph speed limit on all villages in the early 90's, no matter what. Some it was justified, but one village I drive through daily to work used to be a 50 limit and there is no way a 30 limit is justified.
Why do you think it was not justified that the people living in that village should have streets outside their houses where traffic isn't doing 50mph (or more as 50mph limits are rarely observed)?PF62 said:
The solution isn’t to ignore them and carry on as before but to encourage excessive compliance, so everyone drives everywhere at 10 to 15mph, and I mean *everyone* *everywhere* these limits apply. First gear everywhere.
When Wales grinds to a halt with traffic jams, shops running out of stock because trucks can’t get through, etc. then perhaps the idiots will wake up.
This is the only solution.When Wales grinds to a halt with traffic jams, shops running out of stock because trucks can’t get through, etc. then perhaps the idiots will wake up.
It can be made better by deliberately driving to the areas where the decision makers live, and ensuring such over compliance.
I personally have a bit of a laugh doing this on the rare occassions I have to go into London, and it's quite enjoyable to drive some bellend up the wall into subsequently overtaking at 50mph on a suburban street, with no sense of irony that his vote is the reason he's now in a huff.
croyde said:
it still confuses me that so many comply and drone along at 18mph despite the fact that cameras are rare, you never see any police and that they continue sleep walking along even when they are in the rare 30 and 40 zones.
Sorry to be "that guy", but I do it on purpose. London voted in the ****ing **** **** khan, and now maybe it's time for some tough lessons about consequences.To your point though, the only reason I'm not annoyed is because I said fk it and left.
PF62 said:
eccles said:
Here in Suffolk they imposed a blanket 30mph speed limit on all villages in the early 90's, no matter what. Some it was justified, but one village I drive through daily to work used to be a 50 limit and there is no way a 30 limit is justified.
Why do you think it was not justified that the people living in that village should have streets outside their houses where traffic isn't doing 50mph (or more as 50mph limits are rarely observed)?mr_fibuli said:
The trick is to know the rules and use it agast them. The petition can be started but it just depends on who is running it? 
What are the papers saying, do you have a story for them. What are the rules about the number of objections and what they have to do? What are the rules on objections to them?
If you what to push back on this it will take a lot of work but can be done.
eccles said:
PF62 said:
eccles said:
Here in Suffolk they imposed a blanket 30mph speed limit on all villages in the early 90's, no matter what. Some it was justified, but one village I drive through daily to work used to be a 50 limit and there is no way a 30 limit is justified.
Why do you think it was not justified that the people living in that village should have streets outside their houses where traffic isn't doing 50mph (or more as 50mph limits are rarely observed)?Do you actually think that 30 mph speed limits would be observed if the speed limit inside a village varied multiple times across a small area?
mgv8 said:
The trick is to know the rules and use it agast them. The petition can be started but it just depends on who is running it?
What are the papers saying, do you have a story for them. What are the rules about the number of objections and what they have to do? What are the rules on objections to them?
If you what to push back on this it will take a lot of work but can be done.
It is all kicking off locally, lots of people doing some great work in the Facebook group (linked in the petition). Standing in the local elections, radio interviews, papers, FOI requests, and hundreds of letters of complaint that the local council and MS are getting sick of reading. Some kind of official complaint has gone in against our MS who has repeatedly passed the buck while not allowing us to start a petition. (there have been several carefully worded attempts, but they are all denied as there was an unconnected petition about a year ago that got hardly any responses).What are the papers saying, do you have a story for them. What are the rules about the number of objections and what they have to do? What are the rules on objections to them?
If you what to push back on this it will take a lot of work but can be done.
I think the main issue now is raising awareness that this is going to happen across the whole country next year - people seem pretty apathetic towards it until the bin bags come off the 20 signs on their local roads. I think it is our duty as a "pilot area" to get the word out, hence my post here
I'm in rural SE England.
Local village has a 30 limit throughout, but the usual suspects who (unsuccessfully) protested against 2G, 3G, 4G & more recently 5G mobile phone antennae, are now screeching for a 20 limit throughout.
But what is the point?? Boy racers will drive through one bit of road at 90, whatever the new limit is....
Local village has a 30 limit throughout, but the usual suspects who (unsuccessfully) protested against 2G, 3G, 4G & more recently 5G mobile phone antennae, are now screeching for a 20 limit throughout.
But what is the point?? Boy racers will drive through one bit of road at 90, whatever the new limit is....
PF62 said:
eccles said:
PF62 said:
eccles said:
Here in Suffolk they imposed a blanket 30mph speed limit on all villages in the early 90's, no matter what. Some it was justified, but one village I drive through daily to work used to be a 50 limit and there is no way a 30 limit is justified.
Why do you think it was not justified that the people living in that village should have streets outside their houses where traffic isn't doing 50mph (or more as 50mph limits are rarely observed)?Do you actually think that 30 mph speed limits would be observed if the speed limit inside a village varied multiple times across a small area?
Seems like you're quite happy to have a blanket 20mph limit no matter if it's suitable or not.
We’ve got the same here in North Yorkshire, with a ‘Twenty is Plenty’ zealot seeking to reduce speed limits to 20 in all built-up areas across the county. All he does is quote reams of statistics, cite studies from other countries and shriek irrationally at anyone who dares to dispute his ‘findings’. I don’t have a problem with 20mph being applied in most town centres, near schools and at other locations where the traffic and road conditions warrant it, such as some housing estates. In other locations, a reduction to from 40 to 30 is entirely appropriate. There has to be a balance between the safety of road users and pedestrians and the legitimate right of people to go about their daily business etc. A blanket application of 20mph is neither proportionate nor reasonable IMO.
eccles said:
PF62 said:
eccles said:
PF62 said:
eccles said:
Here in Suffolk they imposed a blanket 30mph speed limit on all villages in the early 90's, no matter what. Some it was justified, but one village I drive through daily to work used to be a 50 limit and there is no way a 30 limit is justified.
Why do you think it was not justified that the people living in that village should have streets outside their houses where traffic isn't doing 50mph (or more as 50mph limits are rarely observed)?Do you actually think that 30 mph speed limits would be observed if the speed limit inside a village varied multiple times across a small area?
Seems like you're quite happy to have a blanket 20mph limit no matter if it's suitable or not.
eccles said:
PF62 said:
eccles said:
PF62 said:
eccles said:
Here in Suffolk they imposed a blanket 30mph speed limit on all villages in the early 90's, no matter what. Some it was justified, but one village I drive through daily to work used to be a 50 limit and there is no way a 30 limit is justified.
Why do you think it was not justified that the people living in that village should have streets outside their houses where traffic isn't doing 50mph (or more as 50mph limits are rarely observed)?Do you actually think that 30 mph speed limits would be observed if the speed limit inside a village varied multiple times across a small area?
Seems like you're quite happy to have a blanket 20mph limit no matter if it's suitable or not.
Peter3442 said:
On some good downhill stretches, we'll be seeing some of the more adventurous cyclists breaking the speed limit.
Yep, we already have people complaining about being overtaken and undertaken by cyclists, and also a lot of road rage and dangerous overtakes happening now.
Probably worth pointing out that this isn't actually a blanket policy at all. The idea is to change the DEFAULT speed limit to 20mph and then have the relevant highway authority apply a more appropriate speed limit on a case by case basis. This is what already happens to vary the speed limit from the current default of 30mph to create the 20mph and 40mph sections we encounter.
The objective clearly is to lower speed limits in a lot of places without having to go through the current rigmarole of creating 20mph zones. Yes, there'd be loads more 20mph urban roads. But if the system works as intended there'd still be loads of 30mph and 40mph thoroughfares too.
Obviously there's plenty of scope for the implementation to be ballsed up, cost a fortune, etc, etc, but the central idea isn't completely bonkers.
The objective clearly is to lower speed limits in a lot of places without having to go through the current rigmarole of creating 20mph zones. Yes, there'd be loads more 20mph urban roads. But if the system works as intended there'd still be loads of 30mph and 40mph thoroughfares too.
Obviously there's plenty of scope for the implementation to be ballsed up, cost a fortune, etc, etc, but the central idea isn't completely bonkers.
ATG said:
Probably worth pointing out that this isn't actually a blanket policy at all. The idea is to change the DEFAULT speed limit to 20mph and then have the relevant highway authority apply a more appropriate speed limit on a case by case basis. This is what already happens to vary the speed limit from the current default of 30mph to create the 20mph and 40mph sections we encounter.
The objective clearly is to lower speed limits in a lot of places without having to go through the current rigmarole of creating 20mph zones. Yes, there'd be loads more 20mph urban roads. But if the system works as intended there'd still be loads of 30mph and 40mph thoroughfares too.
Obviously there's plenty of scope for the implementation to be ballsed up, cost a fortune, etc, etc, but the central idea isn't completely bonkers.
'Gullible' comes to mind The objective clearly is to lower speed limits in a lot of places without having to go through the current rigmarole of creating 20mph zones. Yes, there'd be loads more 20mph urban roads. But if the system works as intended there'd still be loads of 30mph and 40mph thoroughfares too.
Obviously there's plenty of scope for the implementation to be ballsed up, cost a fortune, etc, etc, but the central idea isn't completely bonkers.
bigothunter said:
ATG said:
Probably worth pointing out that this isn't actually a blanket policy at all. The idea is to change the DEFAULT speed limit to 20mph and then have the relevant highway authority apply a more appropriate speed limit on a case by case basis. This is what already happens to vary the speed limit from the current default of 30mph to create the 20mph and 40mph sections we encounter.
The objective clearly is to lower speed limits in a lot of places without having to go through the current rigmarole of creating 20mph zones. Yes, there'd be loads more 20mph urban roads. But if the system works as intended there'd still be loads of 30mph and 40mph thoroughfares too.
Obviously there's plenty of scope for the implementation to be ballsed up, cost a fortune, etc, etc, but the central idea isn't completely bonkers.
'Gullible' comes to mind The objective clearly is to lower speed limits in a lot of places without having to go through the current rigmarole of creating 20mph zones. Yes, there'd be loads more 20mph urban roads. But if the system works as intended there'd still be loads of 30mph and 40mph thoroughfares too.
Obviously there's plenty of scope for the implementation to be ballsed up, cost a fortune, etc, etc, but the central idea isn't completely bonkers.
ATG said:
Probably worth pointing out that this isn't actually a blanket policy at all. The idea is to change the DEFAULT speed limit to 20mph and then have the relevant highway authority apply a more appropriate speed limit on a case by case basis. This is what already happens to vary the speed limit from the current default of 30mph to create the 20mph and 40mph sections we encounter.
The objective clearly is to lower speed limits in a lot of places without having to go through the current rigmarole of creating 20mph zones. Yes, there'd be loads more 20mph urban roads. But if the system works as intended there'd still be loads of 30mph and 40mph thoroughfares too.
Obviously there's plenty of scope for the implementation to be ballsed up, cost a fortune, etc, etc, but the central idea isn't completely bonkers.
Here is the Welsh Government criteria for allowing a road to be 30mph:The objective clearly is to lower speed limits in a lot of places without having to go through the current rigmarole of creating 20mph zones. Yes, there'd be loads more 20mph urban roads. But if the system works as intended there'd still be loads of 30mph and 40mph thoroughfares too.
Obviously there's plenty of scope for the implementation to be ballsed up, cost a fortune, etc, etc, but the central idea isn't completely bonkers.
30mph speed limits will be retained on A and B classification roads provided they are not:
1. Within 100m walk of any educational setting (e.g. primary, secondary, further education and higher education);
2. Within 100m walk of any community centre;
3. Within 100m walk of any hospital;
4. Where the number of residential and/or retail premises fronting a road exceeds a defined density (20 properties per km equivalent).
That rules out pretty much 100% of all town and suburban roads that I can think of.
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