Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023

[oakdale]

Stella Tortoise said:

It may not be in your experience.

I am not a fan of the new speed limits at all, they really didn’t need meddling with.

However, much of the bhing that I see about them on here and elsewhere is clearly motivated by political beliefs, i.e.tories st stirring about labour policy.

For the record I support neither party.

I don't think that's the case at all, there are some politically motivated posters on here defending the WG but I think most others
are just angry at having this idiotic scheme inflicted on them.

This on top of all the other failures of the WG demonstrates what a failure devolution has been for Wales, in my opinion Wales would be a far better place if devolution was binned, no matter which party is in power.

[Plymo]

ATG said:

camel_landy said:

ATG said:

Precisely. It's a default not a blanket. Getting exemptions in place for appropriate roads is no big deal.

Assuming the councils are well funded and the staff have the necessary bandwidth to deal with the paperwork, etc...

It would have been far easier (and cheaper) to leave it as it was and give the councils greater powers to implement 20s where necessary instead. IMO it'd be a win-win.

M

No it wouldn't. It makes sense for residential urban roads to be twenty by default. It saves the effort of getting exemptions from 30 on every bleeding cul de sac. The reality was that councils had to waste loads of time trying to impose 20s all over the place so they didn't bother. It is far easier for councils to operate in a framework where exemptions RAISE the limit. There is far less opposition. The councils already knows the thoroughfares through its towns and villages. Raising exemptions to keep them at 30 was a non-issue. This didn't create a blip on our county council's radar. Officers just got on with it. Compare and contrast with funding road repairs, subsidising bus routes, education, social services, etc

The problem is it definitely varies by council. Swansea for example seems pretty reasonable, NPT and particularly Bridgend however...







All of these are A class roads by the way...

[Evanivitch]

Plymo said:

All of these are A class roads by the way...

Literally a 200m stretch with village both ends, primary school one end and community rugby club in the middle. Perfectly good example of why it should be 20mph.

Plymo said:

Hospital on left, park on right, not an A road.

Edited by Evanivitch on Saturday 16th March 18:04

[Stella Tortoise]

oakdale said:

Stella Tortoise said:

It may not be in your experience.

I am not a fan of the new speed limits at all, they really didn’t need meddling with.

However, much of the bhing that I see about them on here and elsewhere is clearly motivated by political beliefs, i.e.tories st stirring about labour policy.

For the record I support neither party.

I don't think that's the case at all, there are some politically motivated posters on here defending the WG but I think most others
are just angry at having this idiotic scheme inflicted on them.

This on top of all the other failures of the WG demonstrates what a failure devolution has been for Wales, in my opinion Wales would be a far better place if devolution was binned, no matter which party is in power.

You could start with bigothunter, probably the most prolific poster on this thread and clearly in for the anti Senedd purpose. He hasn’t denied it.

[moorx]

Stella Tortoise said:

oakdale said:

Stella Tortoise said:

It may not be in your experience.

I am not a fan of the new speed limits at all, they really didn’t need meddling with.

However, much of the bhing that I see about them on here and elsewhere is clearly motivated by political beliefs, i.e.tories st stirring about labour policy.

For the record I support neither party.

I don't think that's the case at all, there are some politically motivated posters on here defending the WG but I think most others
are just angry at having this idiotic scheme inflicted on them.

This on top of all the other failures of the WG demonstrates what a failure devolution has been for Wales, in my opinion Wales would be a far better place if devolution was binned, no matter which party is in power.

You could start with bigothunter, probably the most prolific poster on this thread and clearly in for the anti Senedd purpose. He hasn’t denied it.

And who doesn't even live in Wales...

[Stella Tortoise]

moorx said:

Stella Tortoise said:

oakdale said:

Stella Tortoise said:

It may not be in your experience.

I am not a fan of the new speed limits at all, they really didn’t need meddling with.

However, much of the bhing that I see about them on here and elsewhere is clearly motivated by political beliefs, i.e.tories st stirring about labour policy.

For the record I support neither party.

I don't think that's the case at all, there are some politically motivated posters on here defending the WG but I think most others
are just angry at having this idiotic scheme inflicted on them.

This on top of all the other failures of the WG demonstrates what a failure devolution has been for Wales, in my opinion Wales would be a far better place if devolution was binned, no matter which party is in power.

You could start with bigothunter, probably the most prolific poster on this thread and clearly in for the anti Senedd purpose. He hasn’t denied it.

And who doesn't even live in Wales...

Indeed, however, he is considering making a massive investment into our green and pleasant!

Funny as fk.

[bigothunter]

Stella Tortoise said:

Indeed, however, he is considering making a massive investment into our green and pleasant!

Funny as fk.

You ask me a specific question. I give you a specific answer. Then a complete blank - no response at all.

But to repeat again, why did you ask? Was it just to be an annoying tt?

nb I am seriously considering moving to Wales, whether you or the Senedd like it or not. Be my guest to find that "funny as fk".

bigothunter said:

Stella Tortoise said:

Sigh.

What car do you drive daily in suburban areas?

You have a certain unique charm

I don't drive in suburban areas daily. Usually only twice per week.

Last week it was a Puma ST but this week, it's a Kuga FHEV. Sometimes it's a Navara pick-up.

But to repeat, why do you ask?

[bigothunter]

Not all bad news: The plan for drivers

"Being pro-public transport does not mean being anti-car. The easy political choice is to vilify the private car even when it’s been one of the most powerful forces for personal freedom and economic growth in the last century. Used appropriately and considerately, the car was, is, and will remain a force for good.

It is not right that some drivers feel under attack."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/plan-fo...

[Pica-Pica]

bigothunter said:

Not all bad news: The plan for drivers

"Being pro-public transport does not mean being anti-car. The easy political choice is to vilify the private car even when it’s been one of the most powerful forces for personal freedom and economic growth in the last century. Used appropriately and considerately, the car was, is, and will remain a force for good.

It is not right that some drivers feel under attack."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/plan-fo...

Wrong thread, as the introduction to that says ‘applies to England’.

[bigothunter]

Pica-Pica said:

bigothunter said:

Not all bad news: The plan for drivers

"Being pro-public transport does not mean being anti-car. The easy political choice is to vilify the private car even when it’s been one of the most powerful forces for personal freedom and economic growth in the last century. Used appropriately and considerately, the car was, is, and will remain a force for good.

It is not right that some drivers feel under attack."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/plan-fo...

Wrong thread, as the introduction to that says ‘applies to England’.

Hadn't noticed - thanks

Contagion still applies however. With Senedd Setting the blueprint for Britain as Angela Rayner proclaimed, the disease can spread across borders. She is destined be our next Deputy PM.


This paragraph in The Plan is telling:

"The introduction of 20mph speed limits in all residential areas in Wales and the expansion of the Ultra Low Emission Zone in London has shone a spotlight on the issues drivers are facing. All this means now is the right time to make a step change in how we help drivers. The measures in this plan will make driving as straightforward, smooth, fair, environmentally responsible and safe as possible."

[monkfish1]

bigothunter said:

Not all bad news: The plan for drivers

"Being pro-public transport does not mean being anti-car. The easy political choice is to vilify the private car even when it’s been one of the most powerful forces for personal freedom and economic growth in the last century. Used appropriately and considerately, the car was, is, and will remain a force for good.

It is not right that some drivers feel under attack."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/plan-fo...

You know they are only saying that becaiuse there is an election looming. Once its over, regardlress of outcome, it will be back to buisness as usual.

[oakdale]

Pica-Pica said:

bigothunter said:

Not all bad news: The plan for drivers

"Being pro-public transport does not mean being anti-car. The easy political choice is to vilify the private car even when it’s been one of the most powerful forces for personal freedom and economic growth in the last century. Used appropriately and considerately, the car was, is, and will remain a force for good.

It is not right that some drivers feel under attack."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/plan-fo...

Wrong thread, as the introduction to that says ‘applies to England’.

That policy paper was published on the 2nd of October as a direct result of the UK Gov seeing the backlash over the TFL and Welsh 20mph speed limits, Drakeford and chums have unintentionally saved the English from the same fate.

[monkfish1]

oakdale said:

Pica-Pica said:

bigothunter said:

Not all bad news: The plan for drivers

"Being pro-public transport does not mean being anti-car. The easy political choice is to vilify the private car even when it’s been one of the most powerful forces for personal freedom and economic growth in the last century. Used appropriately and considerately, the car was, is, and will remain a force for good.

It is not right that some drivers feel under attack."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/plan-fo...

Wrong thread, as the introduction to that says ‘applies to England’.

That policy paper was published on the 2nd of October as a direct result of the UK Gov seeing the backlash over the TFL and Welsh 20mph speed limits, Drakeford and chums have unintentionally saved the English from the same fate.

I bet they havent.

[bigothunter]

monkfish1 said:

You know they are only saying that becaiuse there is an election looming. Once its over, regardlress of outcome, it will be back to buisness as usual.

Taking political advantage of unpopular policy - yes of course

But this default 20mph limit does have a particularly nasty socialist ring to it. Ideology before pragmatism. Needs stopping before this disease spreads across the UK.

[Byker28i]

bigothunter said:

monkfish1 said:

You know they are only saying that becaiuse there is an election looming. Once its over, regardlress of outcome, it will be back to buisness as usual.

Taking political advantage of unpopular policy - yes of course

But this default 20mph limit does have a particularly nasty socialist ring to it. Ideology before pragmatism. Needs stopping before this disease spreads across the UK.

Everything about the 20Mph was to encourage people out of cars, whilst ignoring all the latest evidence and basing it on pre-covid research and ignoring the needs of rural Wales, making global rules for the 20% who live in Cardiff and Swansea
It's part of a complete policy that includes promoting working from home, or a return to working locally so you can walk to work etc
https://www.gov.wales/remote-working-policy

[camel_landy]

Byker28i said:

Everything about the 20Mph was to encourage people out of cars, whilst ignoring all the latest evidence and basing it on pre-covid research and ignoring the needs of rural Wales, making global rules for the 20% who live in Cardiff and Swansea
It's part of a complete policy that includes promoting working from home, or a return to working locally so you can walk to work etc
https://www.gov.wales/remote-working-policy

Good old WG being behind the curve... Lots of organisations are now mandating a return to office, including a lot of .Gov. I can see a significant increase in car usage again, as we go back to the pre-Covid days where there would be a mass exodus on Monday and then queues at Brynglas & Baglan to get back on Friday.

Add to that, the decline in property values means that those who moved to Wales "coz they could work remotely" are now going to be stuck.

M

[ATG]

oakdale said:

Stella Tortoise said:

It may not be in your experience.

I am not a fan of the new speed limits at all, they really didn’t need meddling with.

However, much of the bhing that I see about them on here and elsewhere is clearly motivated by political beliefs, i.e.tories st stirring about labour policy.

For the record I support neither party.

I don't think that's the case at all, there are some politically motivated posters on here defending the WG but I think most others
are just angry at having this idiotic scheme inflicted on them.

This on top of all the other failures of the WG demonstrates what a failure devolution has been for Wales, in my opinion Wales would be a far better place if devolution was binned, no matter which party is in power.

Except for people like me who are politically opposed to Labour, have had this policy imposed on me (because I actually live in Wales unlike the majority of people complaining on this thread from a position of complete practical ignorance) and yet I admit that the policy is reasonable and had been implemented pretty successfully.

Gggbbnrrrr ... can't compute ... must be political bias ?!?

OR

The opposition to this policy is rooted in a mix of supposition instead of experience, a daft fear that "gubermint is out t'getcha, m'OK?", fear of change, a puerile resentment of being set rules of any sort, and intellectually bankrupt political opportunism by those opposing Labour and devolution which is beneath the dignity of some of us.

[ATG]

Byker28i said:

bigothunter said:

monkfish1 said:

You know they are only saying that becaiuse there is an election looming. Once its over, regardlress of outcome, it will be back to buisness as usual.

Taking political advantage of unpopular policy - yes of course

But this default 20mph limit does have a particularly nasty socialist ring to it. Ideology before pragmatism. Needs stopping before this disease spreads across the UK.

Everything about the 20Mph was to encourage people out of cars, whilst ignoring all the latest evidence and basing it on pre-covid research and ignoring the needs of rural Wales, making global rules for the 20% who live in Cardiff and Swansea
It's part of a complete policy that includes promoting working from home, or a return to working locally so you can walk to work etc
https://www.gov.wales/remote-working-policy

Paranoid rubbish.

[Penrhyn]

ATG

"paranoid Rubbish"

Yes some comments are but

But Byker28 said

"Everything about the 20Mph was to encourage people out of cars"

That is true. The implementation here in Conwy is not a success, by any means.

The thing is the motorcar invention has levelled the playing field where everyone is equal.

[camel_landy]

ATG said:

...and yet I admit that the policy is reasonable and had been implemented pretty successfully.

Depends on which measurement(s) you use.

Reduction in average speed - Probably yes. However the downside is we now have rolling 25mph roadblocks in 20mph... 30mph... 40mph... and even 50mph zones. This causes frustration and dangerous overtaking.

Reduction in KSI - Probably not. This policy hasn't educated people, it has just bred resentment.

Saved the NHS money, through reduction of KSIs - Probably not - See above.

Trust in politicians - I think that has taken a bit of a battering too, especially on the back of ULEZ and Drakeford's outgoing comments.

...and yes, I live in Wales. I also have to travel quite a bit across the UK.

M