Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
CoolHands said:
Sadly the WG is clearly like some posters on this thread and revel in the fact that at a minimum £32m has been wasted on this blanket change and there’s jack s
t the public can do about it. It makes them happy.
Promises to look at the guidance is just electioneering
Wasted? £32m one off payment to save the NHS £96m per year. Bargain.t the public can do about it. It makes them happy. Promises to look at the guidance is just electioneering
monkfish1 said:
Penrhyn said:
monkfish1 said:
bigothunter said:
oakdale said:
Itchy won't be happy 
After the election when a whole load of new, anti people policies start happening, 20mph limits will be forgotten quickly enough.
Any of you can write to your local council to review the limit.
A reply to mine is below.
STARTS
Thank you for your correspondence.
We note your request to review the speed limits on
Marine Drive, Rhos on Sea (466/02012)
Glan Y Mor, Penrhyn Bay (466/08046)
Brompton Avenue, Rhos on Sea (466/01910)
Llandudno Road, Penrhyn Bay (466/01995)
Conway Road, Mochdre (466/04445)
Brynai Road, Llandudno (466/01143)
Gloddaeth Avenue, Llandudno (466/52541)
Deganwy Road, Deganwy (466/05446)
We accept that some road sections may need reviewing after the national 20 mph speed limit change and this is something that Conwy County Borough Council will be undertaking in due course.
Welsh Government announced that it will be reviewing the guidance and exception criteria provided to councils, clearly, we will have to take this into account as well. A review would need to be in accordance with Welsh Government guidance and we would give particular weight to the views of residents who live on the road section in question. We will not make any final decisions until we know what changes are made to the criteria, therefore the timescales and procedure for a review are yet to be decided. This is the position of most, if not all, local authorities in Wales.
We trust that the above is explanatory.
Regards,
Adran Traffig
Traffic Section
ENDS
The councils of course, wont raise them, as they will then be culpable for "increasing" the speed limit when theres an accident that will be argued would be less severe or would not have happened at a lower speed.
Add to which, they will as per your letter, give particular weight to residents. Note, residents, not the people using the road. Most residents will be quite happy with there new speed limit. Of course, those same people, will, doubtless, want limits raised elsewhere.
Net result, residents say no, council do nothing. Add to which, where will the money come from?
Nobody in a coucils is going to sign of an increase for all the above reasons. Why would you, when it goes pear shaped, you run the risk of losing your liberty.
Net result, nothing will change.
Okay, make it 5mph, I want fine sand beige gravel and evenly spaced compressas trees with those funny little white posts linked with chains. At the entrance to my drive I'd like one of those little roundabout things with a fountain in the middle.
bigothunter said:
monkfish1 said:
Nothing is going to change, certainly no limits will be raised back up. Just pre election noise, to divert attention from an unpopular policy
After the election when a whole load of new, anti people policies start happening, 20mph limits will be forgotten quickly enough.
I prefer oakdale's version. We shall see After the election when a whole load of new, anti people policies start happening, 20mph limits will be forgotten quickly enough.
oakdale said:
We'll end up with the 'blanket' 20mph project being reversed in all but name.
This way, the WG will get to blame someone else for the backlash (the local authorities), as is the WG way.
This way, the WG will get to blame someone else for the backlash (the local authorities), as is the WG way.
oakdale said:
I wonder if itchy believe this.
That averages out at over £151 million per year, not including the initial cost of implementation.
Itchy says it saves 96 million a year. But costs 151 to save it.That averages out at over £151 million per year, not including the initial cost of implementation.
These guys running the show, they are good arent they? Cab we get some 12 years old in please?
MightyBadger said:
Read the detail, not the headline and my, and some other posts on the last couple of pages. This is a PR excercise, not a change of speed limits excercise.monkfish1 said:
bigothunter said:
monkfish1 said:
Nothing is going to change, certainly no limits will be raised back up. Just pre election noise, to divert attention from an unpopular policy
After the election when a whole load of new, anti people policies start happening, 20mph limits will be forgotten quickly enough.
I prefer oakdale's version. We shall see After the election when a whole load of new, anti people policies start happening, 20mph limits will be forgotten quickly enough.
oakdale said:
We'll end up with the 'blanket' 20mph project being reversed in all but name.
This way, the WG will get to blame someone else for the backlash (the local authorities), as is the WG way.
This way, the WG will get to blame someone else for the backlash (the local authorities), as is the WG way.
bigothunter said:
monkfish1 said:
bigothunter said:
monkfish1 said:
Nothing is going to change, certainly no limits will be raised back up. Just pre election noise, to divert attention from an unpopular policy
After the election when a whole load of new, anti people policies start happening, 20mph limits will be forgotten quickly enough.
I prefer oakdale's version. We shall see After the election when a whole load of new, anti people policies start happening, 20mph limits will be forgotten quickly enough.
oakdale said:
We'll end up with the 'blanket' 20mph project being reversed in all but name.
This way, the WG will get to blame someone else for the backlash (the local authorities), as is the WG way.
This way, the WG will get to blame someone else for the backlash (the local authorities), as is the WG way.
monkfish1 said:
oakdale said:
I wonder if itchy believe this.
That averages out at over £151 million per year, not including the initial cost of implementation.
Itchy says it saves 96 million a year. But costs 151 to save it.That averages out at over £151 million per year, not including the initial cost of implementation.
These guys running the show, they are good arent they? Cab we get some 12 years old in please?
Also the Senedd are still pushing research/claims from 2018 that has been superseded buy research from the same person/team showing completely different results post covid...
Just another vanity project costing the welsh people money, like expanding the Senedd for $100m.
The interesting bit about the Napier university research they quote is that they suggested applying 20mph to appropriate roads, not the blanket approach the Senedd took. And again those figures used traffic levels from 2017 to 2019, ignoring the impact covid had on the number of home workers now.
Covid showed many people could work from home, even hybrid home working, so surely if the whole Senedd plan is actually to reduce traffic levels and car usage, then incentives for working from home would be a better use of money
Edited by Byker28i on Monday 22 April 11:18
Byker28i said:
The interesting bit about the Napier university research they quote is that they suggested applying 20mph to appropriate roads, not the blanket approach the Senedd took. And again those figures used traffic levels from 2017 to 2019, ignoring the impact covid had on the number of home workers now.
It's a great research paper."This report estimates the casualty savings of 20mph, in the first year alone, to be just over
£92M; nearly three times higher than the implementation costs.
However, evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety, as well as other health benefits such as reduced noise and air
pollution."
The investment in 20 mph rollout makes even more sense if younger generations can avoid being a burden on the NHS like the inactive, chain smoking and obese boomers.
" An exceptions process has been developed where current 30mph could remain where the movement function is significant and the place function limited/absent. This will be determined by each of the 22 local Councils across Wales. This needs to be based on evidence of effectiveness rather than lobby group pressure, not least given that representative sample surveys show consistent support for
20mph across the UK."
Great point of note.
Evanivitch said:
Byker28i said:
The interesting bit about the Napier university research they quote is that they suggested applying 20mph to appropriate roads, not the blanket approach the Senedd took. And again those figures used traffic levels from 2017 to 2019, ignoring the impact covid had on the number of home workers now.
It's a great research paper."This report estimates the casualty savings of 20mph, in the first year alone, to be just over
£92M; nearly three times higher than the implementation costs.
However, evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety, as well as other health benefits such as reduced noise and air
pollution."
The investment in 20 mph rollout makes even more sense if younger generations can avoid being a burden on the NHS like the inactive, chain smoking and obese boomers.
" An exceptions process has been developed where current 30mph could remain where the movement function is significant and the place function limited/absent. This will be determined by each of the 22 local Councils across Wales. This needs to be based on evidence of effectiveness rather than lobby group pressure, not least given that representative sample surveys show consistent support for
20mph across the UK."
Great point of note.
Or is it that traffic is now driving slower past the houses with children staring at a screen while on their Playstation?
RSTurboPaul said:
Is evidence provided of immediate and sustained increases in the use active travel modes following the implementation of lower speed limits, in areas with similar characteristics as Wales (i.e. not central London or similar)?
Or is it that traffic is now driving slower past the houses with children staring at a screen while on their Playstation?
Is there a place with similar characteristics to Wales we'd all agree on?Or is it that traffic is now driving slower past the houses with children staring at a screen while on their Playstation?
Evanivitch said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Is evidence provided of immediate and sustained increases in the use active travel modes following the implementation of lower speed limits, in areas with similar characteristics as Wales (i.e. not central London or similar)?
Or is it that traffic is now driving slower past the houses with children staring at a screen while on their Playstation?
Is there a place with similar characteristics to Wales we'd all agree on?Or is it that traffic is now driving slower past the houses with children staring at a screen while on their Playstation?
Evanivitch said:
It's a great research paper.
"This report estimates the casualty savings of 20mph, in the first year alone, to be just over
£92M; nearly three times higher than the implementation costs.
However, evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety, as well as other health benefits such as reduced noise and air
pollution."
The investment in 20 mph rollout makes even more sense if younger generations can avoid being a burden on the NHS like the inactive, chain smoking and obese boomers.
" An exceptions process has been developed where current 30mph could remain where the movement function is significant and the place function limited/absent. This will be determined by each of the 22 local Councils across Wales. This needs to be based on evidence of effectiveness rather than lobby group pressure, not least given that representative sample surveys show consistent support for
20mph across the UK."
Great point of note.
It's like a work of fiction."This report estimates the casualty savings of 20mph, in the first year alone, to be just over
£92M; nearly three times higher than the implementation costs.
However, evidence suggests that the health benefits of 20mph are far, far greater than
casualty savings alone. They include increased physical activity, and therefore less obesity,
less stress and less anxiety, as well as other health benefits such as reduced noise and air
pollution."
The investment in 20 mph rollout makes even more sense if younger generations can avoid being a burden on the NHS like the inactive, chain smoking and obese boomers.
" An exceptions process has been developed where current 30mph could remain where the movement function is significant and the place function limited/absent. This will be determined by each of the 22 local Councils across Wales. This needs to be based on evidence of effectiveness rather than lobby group pressure, not least given that representative sample surveys show consistent support for
20mph across the UK."
Great point of note.
"Based on evidence of effectiveness rather than lobby group pressure."
So not like the original implementation then.
"Surveys show consistent support"
The same support that booted Drakeford out?
CLK-GTR said:
It's like a work of fiction.
"Based on evidence of effectiveness rather than lobby group pressure."
So not like the original implementation then.
"Surveys show consistent support"
The same support that booted Drakeford out?
It is prudent to consider 'stated preference' versus 'revealed preference'... lol"Based on evidence of effectiveness rather than lobby group pressure."
So not like the original implementation then.
"Surveys show consistent support"
The same support that booted Drakeford out?
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