Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023
Discussion
bigothunter said:
ingenieur said:
The whole of the conclusions section of the Welsh study into this is eye opening so I'll post it in full:
6. Conclusions
>>>The fact that for each average 1mph speed reduction in an urban area there is a 6% reduction in collisions fits well with the findings from the UK studies reported here.
Is this 6% reduction arithmetic or geometric progression?6. Conclusions
>>>The fact that for each average 1mph speed reduction in an urban area there is a 6% reduction in collisions fits well with the findings from the UK studies reported here.
If arithmetic, then lowering the speed limit from 30 to 20mph would reduce collisions by 60%. Has this been huge improvement been verified elsewhere?
Amusingly, this logic suggests a 13mph speed limit would eliminate all collisions (ie zero). That's the one for me
There aren't enough data to reliably show a statistically significant reduction in accidents / causalities etc at 20mph limits. Some report an increase, some a decrease and most no change.
It seems a colossal waste of money to me.
jmsgld said:
Changing the limit from 30 to 20mph will only actually reduce the average speed by approximately 1mph.
There aren't enough data to reliably show a statistically significant reduction in accidents / causalities etc at 20mph limits. Some report an increase, some a decrease and most no change.
It seems a colossal waste of money to me.
Many drivers ignore 20 limits so there is no speed reduction at all. But ISA will address that 'problem' and we will be forced to obey all speed limits.There aren't enough data to reliably show a statistically significant reduction in accidents / causalities etc at 20mph limits. Some report an increase, some a decrease and most no change.
It seems a colossal waste of money to me.
Colossal waste of money depends upon the objectives of 20 limits. Improved safety is not the genuine incentive.
jmsgld said:
No, I suspect it is more about placating the misinformed masses.
Hopefully with ISA there will be less of an incentive to concentrate on motorists as a source of revenue, and we will see an end to scamera vans etc.
It is more about getting the motorist off the highway. Hopefully with ISA there will be less of an incentive to concentrate on motorists as a source of revenue, and we will see an end to scamera vans etc.
ISA is a joke...
PF62 said:
The solution isn’t to ignore them and carry on as before but to encourage excessive compliance, so everyone drives everywhere at 10 to 15mph, and I mean *everyone* *everywhere* these limits apply. First gear everywhere.
When Wales grinds to a halt with traffic jams, shops running out of stock because trucks can’t get through, etc. then perhaps the idiots will wake up.
Absolutely. Let us hope it pans out like this....When Wales grinds to a halt with traffic jams, shops running out of stock because trucks can’t get through, etc. then perhaps the idiots will wake up.
Xenobian said:
PF62 said:
The solution isn’t to ignore them and carry on as before but to encourage excessive compliance, so everyone drives everywhere at 10 to 15mph, and I mean *everyone* *everywhere* these limits apply. First gear everywhere.
When Wales grinds to a halt with traffic jams, shops running out of stock because trucks can’t get through, etc. then perhaps the idiots will wake up.
Absolutely. Let us hope it pans out like this....When Wales grinds to a halt with traffic jams, shops running out of stock because trucks can’t get through, etc. then perhaps the idiots will wake up.
It'll probably also lessen the effect of the "proper" 20 limits where they are really needed.
Plymo said:
Xenobian said:
PF62 said:
The solution isn’t to ignore them and carry on as before but to encourage excessive compliance, so everyone drives everywhere at 10 to 15mph, and I mean *everyone* *everywhere* these limits apply. First gear everywhere.
When Wales grinds to a halt with traffic jams, shops running out of stock because trucks can’t get through, etc. then perhaps the idiots will wake up.
Absolutely. Let us hope it pans out like this....When Wales grinds to a halt with traffic jams, shops running out of stock because trucks can’t get through, etc. then perhaps the idiots will wake up.
It'll probably also lessen the effect of the "proper" 20 limits where they are really needed.
Are you asleep to this imminent major change?
jules_s said:
Just got back from visiting the MIL in Aberfan
The B4054 (Cardiff Rd) now has average speed cameras circa every 500m for its duration
Beggars belief. Total and utter overkill fora bunch of villages where you almost always have to stop at some point.
Cardiff Road is the A4054 according to Google Maps. So it's a major ‘trunk’ road, The B4054 (Cardiff Rd) now has average speed cameras circa every 500m for its duration
Beggars belief. Total and utter overkill fora bunch of villages where you almost always have to stop at some point.
Are you saying sections of this principal road are limited to 20 mph?
ingenieur said:
Turns out the reason for the blanket 20mph everywhere is that they're worried if they make one road into a 20mph road that people won't like travelling at 20mph so they will use an alternative route where the limit is still 30mph.
The reason for a default is to save work. You only need to change the exceptions. Residential streets which were never designed for through-traffic being 20mph makes sense, major thoroughfares will be manually allocated 30 to incentivise staying on those.The other idea is low traffic neighbourhoods to push traffic out of residential areas and onto major thoroughfares, and 1-way systems to funnel traffic in certain directions. All useful tools for improving how traffic moves within towns (nb. the metric is not your personal A-B time, nobody but you cares about that.)
C70R said:
mr_fibuli said:
there might still be a handful of 30s left in the whole of Wales next year
So then not:mr_fibuli said:
every 30mph road in Wales will become a 20 limit
Perhaps if you weren't so melodramatic about it, you might get a bit more support.There's no way I'm signing that petition, it's completely unsupportable. The opening line "The Welsh Government has plans to change every 30mph road in Wales to 20mph" is a lie, that's not a good start. It then goes on to claim that lorries will struggle to drive up hills in the lower gears they have to use in 20 limits, which is an interesting take on physics. Using a Facebook poll as evidence was the cherry on top. It has no credibility at all, utter nonsense.
donteatpeople said:
C70R said:
mr_fibuli said:
there might still be a handful of 30s left in the whole of Wales next year
So then not:mr_fibuli said:
every 30mph road in Wales will become a 20 limit
Perhaps if you weren't so melodramatic about it, you might get a bit more support.There's no way I'm signing that petition, it's completely unsupportable. The opening line "The Welsh Government has plans to change every 30mph road in Wales to 20mph" is a lie, that's not a good start. It then goes on to claim that lorries will struggle to drive up hills in the lower gears they have to use in 20 limits, which is an interesting take on physics. Using a Facebook poll as evidence was the cherry on top. It has no credibility at all, utter nonsense.
I would argue that the conclusions from the Welsh study posted previously were equally poorly written, and certainly no more true.
jmsgld said:
The petition could certainly have been better worded, but that should not be a reason not to sign it.
Of course it is. That’s the sales pitch and I’m not buying it. jmsgld said:
By signing it you are simply showing that you disagree with the changing of default speed limits in built up areas form 30 to 20mph.
That’s one of the main issues, that’s not what the petition says.It actually says:
“Stop the Welsh Govt imposing blanket 20mph speed limits across the whole of Wales by 2023”
Which categorically isn’t happening. So I suppose in the strictest sense I could support it, but it’s pointless.
jmsgld said:
I would argue that the conclusions from the Welsh study posted previously were equally poorly written, and certainly no more true.
I’d disagree.
bigothunter said:
jules_s said:
Just got back from visiting the MIL in Aberfan
The B4054 (Cardiff Rd) now has average speed cameras circa every 500m for its duration
Beggars belief. Total and utter overkill fora bunch of villages where you almost always have to stop at some point.
Cardiff Road is the A4054 according to Google Maps. So it's a major ‘trunk’ road, The B4054 (Cardiff Rd) now has average speed cameras circa every 500m for its duration
Beggars belief. Total and utter overkill fora bunch of villages where you almost always have to stop at some point.
Are you saying sections of this principal road are limited to 20 mph?
https://www.wales247.co.uk/plans-to-extend-average...
You have been warned
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