One for traffic officers.

[PooPoo]

Has this happend to an officer? Just say you catch some one speeding, no seat belt, red light etc etc....(a summons only offence)

You indicate for them to stop and they do so as required for a constable in uniform.

However the driver then refuses point blank to open the window or unlock the door, hence you are unable to speak to the driver for issue of a summons..

..but does Sec 25 PACE have a power to force entry. In other words are any offences being committed if the driver just remains stopped, locked inside his car??

He has stopped as requested, but he is comitting an offence for not providing his details for the purpose of summons. The question is how would you go about this situation if all efforts of communication failed?

Judge this as though you believe the car is his!(hence no arrestable offence) i know there is more than one way to skin a cat

[Dwight VanDriver]

Been covered before.

BiB can arrest for a summary offence as stated ONLY, under the circs mentioned, if one of the following applies

to enable the name of the person in question to be ascertained (in the case where the constable does not know, and cannot readily ascertain, the person's name, or has reasonable grounds for doubting whether a name given by the person as his name is his real name);

correspondingly as regards the person's address;

to allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence or of the conduct of the person in question

(S110 Serious organised Crime and Police Act 2005.)

Reasonable force can be used to effect the arrest.

Woops what happens to the window glass?

dvd


>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Thursday 18th August 07:29

[jasandjules]

If you smashed my car window to arrest me, I would be considered a battery charge against you, hell, I would probably instigate a private prosecution. I am not 100% convinced that you could claim smashing someone's private property was necessary.... You can hear someone through a window, and you can show them a drivers license through a window. I would also request that the officer have his senior officer attend the scene, with ID.

Bear in mind that some people are being robbed/car jacked by fake police officers who pull them over, so little wonder someone would keep the door locked and window shut.

[philthy]

As a royal mail driver, I have been instructed not to stop, unless I believe it to be the police, and then not to open the door, or wind down the window. In fact, we have a printed statement to that effect on the back of the vehicle log books.

In reality of course, I would use my discretion, and common sense (where's gone when you need him?)

I have to add though, if I suddenly found a truncheon coming through the drivers side window, several hundred horsepower, and thousands of foot/lbs of torque would be pushing any vehicle trying to block me in out of the way.

I'm not being arsey, but if someone took it on themselves to break the window, they'd enjoy a nice trip up the motorway to the next "convenient/safe" place, hanging off my rear view mirror.

Phil

[john57]

The police are aware of royal mail and certain other drivers who are instructed not to get out, etc ....... and the drivers would usually show the officer the printed instructions - if the 'officer' had a problem with that or wasn't aware of it then I think driving off is potentially a good option !

I would have no problem following a driver in such circumstances if they felt it necessary as they are merely doing what has been agreed as acceptable by the police nationally.

Discretion is normally used by these drivers but it isn't a problem is they are not happy. Those rules are there for good reason ........

A normal traffic stop where the circumstances have been fully explained to an uncooperative driver - through a closed window if necessary is entirely different. Ultimately a window could be put in lawfully but only as a last resort. In 17 years I have never had a situation where the drivers concerns have not been reasonable - or at least understandable and the situation has been resolved.



>> Edited by john57 on Thursday 18th August 11:12

[PooPoo]

I accept reasonable force can be used but does Sec 25 have a power to enter premises. ie the vehicle by smashing the window??

[philthy]

Thanks for understanding John.
If the window did come in, something wouldn't be right, hence me making off!

Anyhow, bit of a thread hijack...sorry

How someone would react if they did get the window smashed interests me though. If it was some known "scally", probably predictaby, if not?

Phil

[7db]

PooPoo said:

I accept reasonable force can be used but does Sec 25 have a power to enter premises. ie the vehicle by smashing the window??

I don't think vehicles count as premises, in any case. Hence the ability to search without a warrant.

You can always invite the officer to sit in the back.

Of the roadster.

[john57]

Yes, you are right in that a car is not normally regarded as 'premises' .......

[streaky]

Dwight VanDriver said:

Woops what happens to the window glass?

"The police officer put his head through the window ... which was a shame because it was wound-up at the time."

jasandjules said:

You can hear someone through a window, ...

But perhaps not in a Mercedes S class

Streaky