Discussion
dcb said:
From your reply, am I correct in assuming that you have conceded my point that the slowest moving vehicles on the road [ i.e. lorries ] do significantly slow traffic when they move out of lane 1 ?
Yes I do , but the point I have made countless times on other threads is that although the limiter is set at 56mph, a low powered, fully freighted truck will slow on the hills and a fully freighted high powered truck will easily exceed 56mph on a downhill section (ever been to Stokenchurch bank on the M40?). Staying nose to tail is not an option. Do not blame the guy who has gone for the overtake because he is travelling faster, blame the guy in lane 1 who will not lift off for a couple of seconds.
Incidently, we are not always the slowest vehicles on the road.
And how about coaches? Limited to 4mph faster than a truck, but still not permitted in lane 3!!
I got stuck behond a Prochse 911 today, who spent 4 miles overtaking an X5 in the inside lane of the 414.
What really pisses me off about that is that with the very slightest flex of his right foot he would be gone and out the way.
Funnily enough you cant do that driving a 22 tonne truck...and yet you my have a total journey of several thousand miles where all the little hold-ups matter hugely.
I do easily 20k miles every year...quite a bit in Europe...and trucks are at the very top of my 'good drivers' list....followed by bikers...followed by enthusiast style cars (though far more often the 'cheaper' ones like Elises etc.. than the posing ones)
I think some people on here either look for hassles or drive badly enough themselves to constantly get into problems
Night
What really pisses me off about that is that with the very slightest flex of his right foot he would be gone and out the way.
Funnily enough you cant do that driving a 22 tonne truck...and yet you my have a total journey of several thousand miles where all the little hold-ups matter hugely.
I do easily 20k miles every year...quite a bit in Europe...and trucks are at the very top of my 'good drivers' list....followed by bikers...followed by enthusiast style cars (though far more often the 'cheaper' ones like Elises etc.. than the posing ones)
I think some people on here either look for hassles or drive badly enough themselves to constantly get into problems
Night
rob-c said:
One of the (IME) most frightening situations with truck drivers happened to me tonight... I met with a 3-lane wide elephant race, with the trucks in lane 1 barely a car length apart...
I am amazed by the way that trucks form a rolling block around junctions, can't remember where it is in the world but I have seen signs warning lorries not to do this around junctions on motorways.
Unfortunately what we see on the roads is just society as it is today, the majority people not taking responsibility for their actions and having little or no concern for other people around them. By no means am I a saint of the road, but I have driven and ridden most types of vehicles and I would cringe if I thought that I had been a mobile obstacle for other road users. What I really don't understand is why people on the roads in modern society get such an a**e if you simply want to get somewhere quicker than them ?!!?
towman said:
Do not blame the guy who has gone for the overtake because he is travelling faster, blame the guy in lane 1 who will not lift off for a couple of seconds.
Absolutely wrong! It is the responsiblity of the overtaker to ensure they can get past the overtakee[/e] without causing hold ups to the rest of the traffic.
MR2Mike said:
Do not blame the guy who has gone for the overtake because he is travelling faster, blame the guy in lane 1 who will not lift off for a couple of seconds.
Absolutely wrong! It is the responsiblity of the overtaker to ensure they can get past the overtakee[/e] without causing hold ups to the rest of the traffic.
Totally
Once got stuck behind a rusty old wierd bus thing on the 2 to 1 to 2 to 1 secion of the A303 down by Jct 25 of the M5. Every time the road went to 2 lane, he would pull out, hold level with the truck then pull in behind it
Coz both were doing around 40-42mph in a 60 there was a HUGE queue of traffic once the road went out to duel carrageway normal.
I was about 10 cars behind this but the 9 cars in front of me all gave him a nice "coffee beans" on the way past -
Well deserved... MR2Mike said:
Do not blame the guy who has gone for the overtake because he is travelling faster, blame the guy in lane 1 who will not lift off for a couple of seconds.
Absolutely wrong! It is the responsiblity of the overtaker to ensure they can get past the overtakee[/e] without causing hold ups to the rest of the traffic.
You misunderstand. Truck in lane 1 slows on the uphill to 50mph. Truck behind maintains 56mph so therefore pulls out and overtakes. In the meantime first truck has crested the hill and increased speed to 56, marooning secnd truck in lane 2. Who is in the wrong?
Incidently, first truck may not necessarily have accelerated deliberately - he may well be on the limiter.
nightmare said:
I do easily 20k miles every year...quite a bit in Europe...and trucks are at the very top of my 'good drivers' list....followed by bikers...
To understand other motorists you really need to see things from their perspective. Learning to ride a bike makes you more aware to their particular needs.
Whilst I was at Uni I used to deliver fleet cars. Sometimes this would involve trailering them to Scotland. You are limited to 60mph like the truckers and up some of the hills they can leave you trailing. So you are very much in the thick of it with them. They were pretty much without exception good mannered and helpful, always flashing you back in again.
I have trailered around the M25 and followed Miss Numpty in the middle lane who just sits in formation with the cars in lane 1 - for miles. And of course, a trailer is prohibited from lane 3.
I would have to say the 'general' standard of truckies is much higher than the 'general' standard of car drivers.
>> Edited by rsvmilly on Friday 9th September 19:29
towman said:
MR2Mike said:
towman said:
Do not blame the guy who has gone for the overtake because he is travelling faster, blame the guy in lane 1 who will not lift off for a couple of seconds.
Absolutely wrong! It is the responsiblity of the overtaker to ensure they can get past the overtakee[/e] without causing hold ups to the rest of the traffic.
You misunderstand. Truck in lane 1 slows on the uphill to 50mph. Truck behind maintains 56mph so therefore pulls out and overtakes. In the meantime first truck has crested the hill and increased speed to 56, marooning secnd truck in lane 2. Who is in the wrong?
Incidently, first truck may not necessarily have accelerated deliberately - he may well be on the limiter.
Shouldn't the overtaker use forward observation and realise that he wouldn't make it past before the other truck was able to get up to speed? Also nothing to stop second truck pulling back in once he realises that he won't get past today.
>> Edited by esselte on Friday 9th September 20:25
There are a number of accident causing problems more relevant to truck drivers that no-one has yet commented on.
For instance
Those truckers that are owner drivers are more likely to take to the wheel when they are not 100% fit. Man flu and other ailments that would perhaps keep those salaried drivers safely at home will have an effect on a drivers ability. For the owner driver, if the wheels don't turn he don't earn - so the temptation must be to dose oneself with over the counter medication and get on with the job.
I was staggered to find out some of the derisory wages being paid to HGV drivers. Given the level of responsibilty, and the skill required to drive £100k's worth of rig and cargo £7.50 an hour is crap money.
The only way that drivers can make decent wages is to work their maximum allowed hours. This means there are a lot of tired drivers out there. Who hasn't seen a heavy drifting onto the hard shoulder?
They're also bloody difficult to stop quickly!
What's the stopping distance of a 40tonne
HGV ? I'm sure it's more than 2 or 3 car lengths.
I frequently see convoys of trucks that you could barely get a playing card between. The lead truck's OK because he can see any hazard developing and react to it. The following truckers can't and they are often that close to the one in front, chances are they just won't have enough time to react to any emergency before they hit their mate in front.
This is one aspect of truck drivers behaviour I'm at a complete loss to understand. Is it like team pursuit cycling where the lead rider breaks the air resistance for the rest of the team? Are there fuel economies to be had by driving so close together?
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Friday 9th September 22:31
For instance
Those truckers that are owner drivers are more likely to take to the wheel when they are not 100% fit. Man flu and other ailments that would perhaps keep those salaried drivers safely at home will have an effect on a drivers ability. For the owner driver, if the wheels don't turn he don't earn - so the temptation must be to dose oneself with over the counter medication and get on with the job.
I was staggered to find out some of the derisory wages being paid to HGV drivers. Given the level of responsibilty, and the skill required to drive £100k's worth of rig and cargo £7.50 an hour is crap money.
The only way that drivers can make decent wages is to work their maximum allowed hours. This means there are a lot of tired drivers out there. Who hasn't seen a heavy drifting onto the hard shoulder?
heebeegeetee said:
Trucks are heavy, they’re difficult to drive
They're also bloody difficult to stop quickly!
heebeegeetee said:
And the one about trucks too close to the vehicle in front – all I know is that whenever there is a gap between me and the vehicle in front, a car will fill it.
What's the stopping distance of a 40tonne HGV ? I'm sure it's more than 2 or 3 car lengths.
I frequently see convoys of trucks that you could barely get a playing card between. The lead truck's OK because he can see any hazard developing and react to it. The following truckers can't and they are often that close to the one in front, chances are they just won't have enough time to react to any emergency before they hit their mate in front.
This is one aspect of truck drivers behaviour I'm at a complete loss to understand. Is it like team pursuit cycling where the lead rider breaks the air resistance for the rest of the team? Are there fuel economies to be had by driving so close together?
>> Edited by sparkythecat on Friday 9th September 22:31
sparkythecat said:
Those truckers that are owner drivers are more likely to take to the wheel when they are not 100% fit. Man flu and other ailments that would perhaps keep those salaried drivers safely at home will have an effect on a drivers ability. For the owner driver, if the wheels don't turn he don't earn - so the temptation must be to dose oneself with over the counter medication and get on with the job.
Same as most non-milingerers then.
sparkythecat said:
£7.50 an hour is crap money.
Agreed. Thats why most C+E drivers earn far more than that.
sparkythecat said:
The only way that drivers can make decent wages is to work their maximum allowed hours.
Depends on what you class as a decent wage.
sparkythecat said:
Who hasn't seen a heavy drifting onto the hard shoulder? .
See posts passim
sparkythecat said:
I frequently see convoys of trucks that you could barely get a playing card between. The lead truck's OK because he can see any hazard developing and react to it. The following truckers can't and they are often that close to the one in front, chances are they just won't have enough time to react to any emergency before they hit their mate in front.
These are fitted with the new radar/brake interface developed by Scania. It`s top secret. I am breaking the code telling you about it, so one of us will have to die.
Steve
towman, those of us who are not professional drivers can usually find some alternative to driving if we're not feeling 100%. That's the responsible thing to do. It's hardly malingering.
Dosing yourself with proprietory(sp) medication that is likely to impair or has an unknown effect on your driving ability isn't really the safest option, but it's what a lot of professional drivers are forced to do.
The drink driving message is getting home and plod are developing better ways of detecting illegal drugs in drivers, but there is no way of knowing what the effects of prescription drugs have on the accident rate.
For instance, our doctors now prescribe more anti-depressants than ever before. Would you be happy knowing that the driver of the 40tonner bearing down on you was on a real high dose of prozac, lithium or temazepam?
It's time there was more testing of all drivers involved in accidents.
I think that truckers in general are better than average drivers, but they're coming under increasing pressure and taking more risks. Trouble is when they do get it wrong the potential for carnage is much greater.
Dosing yourself with proprietory(sp) medication that is likely to impair or has an unknown effect on your driving ability isn't really the safest option, but it's what a lot of professional drivers are forced to do.
The drink driving message is getting home and plod are developing better ways of detecting illegal drugs in drivers, but there is no way of knowing what the effects of prescription drugs have on the accident rate.
For instance, our doctors now prescribe more anti-depressants than ever before. Would you be happy knowing that the driver of the 40tonner bearing down on you was on a real high dose of prozac, lithium or temazepam?
It's time there was more testing of all drivers involved in accidents.
I think that truckers in general are better than average drivers, but they're coming under increasing pressure and taking more risks. Trouble is when they do get it wrong the potential for carnage is much greater.
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